Explanation of Stars

#52
#52
I'm hungry so I'll state my point in terms of steak.....

To the Stars debate:
Some chefs pay a high end beef price on what was supposed to be Grade A Angus dry aged beef and turns out it wasn't nearly as great as the guy that rated it thought....The Chef still tries to buy the high end stuff because he just doesn't have time to personally inspect every piece of beef available, He trusts the person grading it to get it right so he can take a closer look at the Grade A stuff and not waste his time weeding through the "not for human Consumption" Grade...This does not automatically mean the meal will be worth a Shite!

that is where the star rating has value. It's an attempt to get the most talented highschool kids exposure.


I've seen some real high quality cuts of beef be ruined by a lousy chef and produce total crap on the grill.......Butch

I've also known some folks who can take mid grade beef and turn it into the best meal you will ever eat...........Hopefully Pruitt

Then there are the chefs that are really talented who also work with high end beef & well that's just magic.........Saban

Don't forget the chefs who take highly graded beef and do their best with it and its edible, but not what you'd expect for the price of the beef.........Kirby
 
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#53
#53
VolArmy74 said:
To the stars don't matter crowd. From the 2013 class, 65 percent of the 5 stars on 247 were drafted in 2017, 23 percent of the 4 stars were drafted and 5 percent of the 3 star players were drafted. 5 stars do miss but the odds of them making it are much higher than those lower rated than them.
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So assuming 5% missed due to health or other issues not related to ability or performance then star ratings for 5 stars are wrong 30% of the time...but ultimately NFL futures means squat to college success. Id take a Roster full Tim Tebows and the NFL just didn't want him....
 
#56
#56
05_never_again said:
I haven't seen where any of the recruiting services have said a 5-star should be an NFL 1st rounder.

5-star: exceptionally talented high school player. Good enough to get immediate playing time at the P5 level, possibly even being a key contributor as a true freshman, and in subsequent years is one of the best at their position in their conference, if not the entire country. If a 5-star ends up being a "pretty good" player, it is somewhat of a disappointment.

4-star: very good high school player, but likely not a major contributor as a true freshman at the P5 level, but probably doesn't redshirt. In subsequent years, they should end up being a consistent starter at the very least, and could grow into one of the better players at their position in the conference.

3-star: good high school player, but not exceptionally talented and will likely redshirt as a true freshman at the P5 level.

Of course there are exceptions - there are 3-stars (or sometimes even guys who weren't even rated) who get drafted and 5-stars who are complete busts. The key though is that star ratings give you an idea of what to expect. You're right in that Drew Richmond wasn't a consensus 5-star; that's why a lot of people like 247, because it is a composite of all the services. However "Well, Drew Richmond wasn't a consensus 5-star" is no excuse for how he's played. He was still a highly-rated 4-star. He was the #3 OT nationally coming out of high school. The two guys ranked above him are going to be drafted, and a guy right below him is an all-conference player. At a minimum, a guy rated that high should be, say, one of the 10 best at his position in the conference.
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Agree with most or all of this. I read an article stating the "never more than 32 five stars" and why...i dont deal in fiction unless i am telling the kids bedtime stories. Nor do i get upset when a stranger disagrees with me on VN though, so it is what it is. I am not tech savvy however, and cant use most of the functions of this site, or my galaxy phone for that matter...so I wont be digging up a link for ya. Merry Christmas and Go Vols
 
#58
#58
Russdaddy2027 said:
That may be the most earth shattering counterpoint I've ever encountered. The depth of this comment and the complexity with which you offered your alternative viewpoint is something to behold. You have won the internet today.
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It doesn’t take depth and complexity to know that teams with highly rated players win much more than teams that finish with a boatload of 3* players. Apparently this obvious concept is lost on you, so I was just trying to help
 
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#59
#59
GVF said:
Stars serve no other purpose in the universe except to watch them twinkle in the night sky. Then they burn out.
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Name the school with the most 5-star recruits in the last 8-10 years, tell me how many championships they've won, then come back with your answer. I'm just curious.
 
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#60
#60
marcusluvsvols said:
The services that are the best only give out a maximum of 32qty 5 star ratings in any class. Reason being a player that is rated at 5 stars should be a 1st rounder in the NFL draft, and there are 32 teams. That is why it is insane when a 5 star kid doesnt pan out...we have one on our offensive line though. IiRC, he wasnt a consensus 5 star though...so at least some of the services had their doubts as to his ability and future potential.

4 stars , if a consensus, should develop into a starting player at the p5 level. This doesnt always happen either though, and we have several examples of this. SeC rosters have plenty of 4 star kids that dont start, or even play. Those same kids would be starters at many other P5 schools in most cases. A kid with several years starting in theSEC is all but guaranteed at least a tryout for NFL squads if not a draftpick.
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Stars have nothing to do with NFL projections and everything to do with College projections.

One example being Tebow. He was never projected to be a 1st round caliber NFL QB but in a college offense he was projected to excel.

There are plenty like that each year.
 
#61
#61
cardvolfan said:
Name the school with the most 5-star recruits in the last 8-10 years, tell me how many championships they've won, then come back with your answer. I'm just curious.
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Name the coaching staff that knows what to do with a player, and stars are subjective. How many titles does Jimbo have with all the recruiting success he had at FSU. Outside of Bama, how many titles do all the other top programs (FSU, Clemson, tOSU, OK, etc) have with the level of 4 and 5 star recruits they bring in. You can throw out Bama, and all the other programs that recruit at that level year in and year out have very few repeat titles within a given span of years.

Name all the 5* flameouts that never made an impact, or didn't get drafted. List probably be surprising. I'm not discounting star rating. they are not the sole attribute of college success and championships.
 
#62
#62
The Original Fade said:
It doesn’t take depth and complexity to know that teams with highly rated players win much more than teams that finish with a boatload of 3* players. Apparently this obvious concept is lost on you, so I was just trying to help
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Except for Chip Kelly at Oregon. He beat a lot of people then with a boatload of 3*. Really fast ones.
 
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#63
#63
GVF said:
Name the coaching staff that knows what to do with a player, and stars are subjective. How many titles does Jimbo have with all the recruiting success he had at FSU. Outside of Bama, how many titles do all the other top programs (FSU, Clemson, tOSU, OK, etc) have with the level of 4 and 5 star recruits they bring in. You can throw out Bama, and all the other programs that recruit at that level year in and year out have very few repeat titles within a given span of years.

Name all the 5* flameouts that never made an impact, or didn't get drafted. List probably be surprising. I'm not discounting star rating. they are not the sole attribute of college success and championships.
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You made a statement-of-fact that stars serve no purpose. Specifically, answer my question and tell me that stars have no bearing on wins. Not trying to argue, but would like you to tell me where your factual statement was derived.
 
#64
#64
GVF said:
Name the coaching staff that knows what to do with a player, and stars are subjective. How many titles does Jimbo have with all the recruiting success he had at FSU. Outside of Bama, how many titles do all the other top programs (FSU, Clemson, tOSU, OK, etc) have with the level of 4 and 5 star recruits they bring in. You can throw out Bama, and all the other programs that recruit at that level year in and year out have very few repeat titles within a given span of years.

Name all the 5* flameouts that never made an impact, or didn't get drafted. List probably be surprising. I'm not discounting star rating. they are not the sole attribute of college success and championships.
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Now you say you are not discounting star rating after posting originally that stars have "no purpose" at all. Just wanted you to see that if you make a factual statement, it's good to back up that statement with reality. Carry on. Go Vols!
 
#65
#65
cardvolfan said:
You made a statement-of-fact that stars serve no purpose. Specifically, answer my question and tell me that stars have no bearing on wins. Not trying to argue, but would like you to tell me where your factual statement was derived.
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That original comment of mine was a pre-emptive sarcastic jab. I knew how this thread was going to travel. However, to you're point I again bring up Chip Kelly and what he did at Oregon with very few 4 and 5* players compared to Saban and others. He won a lot of games and beat a lot of good programs with said players. He knew how to make that system successful. True, he doesn't have the titles Saban has. But, it was a wildly successful era at Oregan with lesser rated players. But, not many coaches can take those players and do with them what Kelly did. But, it can be done. Coaching is more the clue of the puzzle than the players ratings. We had some formidable years of recruiting under several different coaches and flopped. Saban could have taken our rosters the last 5-7 years and won atleast 3 titles.
 
#66
#66
I also give you Richt and his UGA success. Walked right by Dooley. Had some of the best rosters in the country for years. And no natty. There's not many elite coaches that have won multiple titles with such highly touted rosters. Or even one. Saban is in a room all by himself.
 
#67
#67
I also give you both Bowden and Fisher with the players they have recruited to FSU. Always top of the pile. How many titles in all those years?? How many for USC and all their top recruits over the years??
 
#69
#69
Only Saban has been able to take elite ranked classes and put up multiple titles in the 8-10 year frame you cited.
 
#70
#70
Only 2 titles in 40 + years for Paterno at PSU. How many blue chippers went through there in his time. His only 2 were in the 80's
 
#71
#71
GVF said:
That original comment of mine was a pre-emptive sarcastic jab. I knew how this thread was going to travel. However, to you're point I again bring up Chip Kelly and what he did at Oregon with very few 4 and 5* players compared to Saban and others. He won a lot of games and beat a lot of good programs with said players. He knew how to make that system successful. True, he doesn't have the titles Saban has. But, it was a wildly successful era at Oregan with lesser rated players. But, not many coaches can take those players and do with them what Kelly did. But, it can be done. Coaching is more the clue of the puzzle than the players ratings. We had some formidable years of recruiting under several different coaches and flopped. Saban could have taken our rosters the last 5-7 years and won atleast 3 titles.
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I agree with everything you said. No malice intended on my part, and you bring up a lot of good points. I really do appreciate your knowledge and perspective. Man, I'm tired of losing, so I hope Pruitt turns it around.
 
#72
#72
cardvolfan said:
I agree with everything you said. No malice intended on my part, and you bring up a lot of good points. I really do appreciate your knowledge and perspective. Man, I'm tired of losing, so I hope Pruitt turns it around.
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Didn't take your comments that way. But, people seem to think only the number of stars a player has mean anything. And a lot of those 5* prima donnas are not really worth dealing with. I'd rather have a hard working blue collar player that's not afraid to go play in his bowl game with his team.
 
#73
#73
GVF said:
Didn't take your comments that way. But, people seem to think only the number of stars a player has mean anything. And a lot of those 5* prima donnas are not really worth dealing with. I'd rather have a hard working blue collar player that's not afraid to go play in his bowl game with his team.
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I would agree.....I would actually love a bunch of 5-stars like Peyton, who worked hard and bettered the talents he had.
 
#74
#74
The Original Fade said:
It doesn’t take depth and complexity to know that teams with highly rated players win much more than teams that finish with a boatload of 3* players. Apparently this obvious concept is lost on you, so I was just trying to help
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Teams with highly performing players win more games. Stars don’t predict performance. Apparently this obvious concept is lost on you, so I was trying to help.
 
#75
#75
Theoretically, I want someone like my son. And I'm stretching here because he was only a Soph in HS this year. And by no means even remotely known by any college coach. 5'8", 170 pounds. Built and thick on the legs. Still waiting to completely fill in upper body. Beat out a senior for playing time. Was starting OL by the 3rd game. Never lost it. Even in AA, blocked guys all season that had 70+ pounds on him and won way more plays than he lost. When someone stood there watching he got his block and theirs at same time. Put a few 280 pound guys on their butts. and was playing both ways at LB by seasons end. And did all that with 3 hairline fractures in his bottom two vertebrae that we didn't find till after the season. Had been playing football and baseball like that for a year cause he was told they were spasms till we got the second set of xrays. So, he would get through the pain with acupuncture and keep on trucking. He's shut down now, of course. Since we know what's wrong and that he can't lift or anything for a while. But, that's the kind of player I want if I'm a coach. coach points to a spot and they go play it with all they have. Most schools, HS or College would not put someone like him on the line. He was out of place. But, there was a need and he excelled at it cause he wanted on the field, even though he's not a lineman. That's what I would want.
 
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