Helton: Pruitt can stand toe to toe with any offensive coach: a great football mind

#101
#101
VolsGrad1989 said:
Of course, YOU HAVE NO FACTS TO BACK UP YOUR NONSENSE. Prove that Jimmy's and Joe's don't matter! I proved they did in my post!!! Go back and look at all the NCs in the last 20 years. You will see 95% of them had an average ranking of top 10 for four years prior to the NC that was won. Again, the only exception I found was Auburn. They averaged a top 12 class for four years before winning it in 2010. Give me some FACTS from online sources that suggest otherwise!!!
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Did anyone say you dont need good players to be successful? We struggle against FCS teams. Id be willing to bet Vandy has never topped us in a recruiting class and yet......

Coaching matters too..
 
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#102
#102
VolsGrad1989 said:
You are clueless. Even Saban couldn't compete with a pro NFL team full with a bunch of the best former college players at every position. I guess that means Saban isn't a great coach due to him not coaching up the Dolphins when his two year win total was 15-17. By the way, his team was 9-7 the first year and then went 6-10, got worse his second year. His Bama team also lost to Louisiana Monroe before all those TOP 2 RECRUITING CLASSES. I am sure you are a person that thinks a player like Tua playing for UT this year wouldn't have given UT at least two more wins this year. GET REAL!!! The Jimmy's and Joe's have more to do with winning than coaching. When the Jimmy's and Joe's are equal. Then, it comes down to player development, X's and O's, and the coaches pushing the right buttons to get the players to perform at their best. I am sure Bama would be dominating and winnining NCs most every year with Vandy talent...NOT!!!!

Bama's recruiting classes the 3 years prior to Saban and his first class were 15, 18, 11, and 10. Bama went 4-4 in SEC play and 7-6 overall. Bama also was 2-3 vs top 25 teams. Even the great Saban, greatest college coach of all time, didn't start dominating college football until Bama was #1 in recuiting 80% of the time. Don't give me that bs about great coaches can overcome not having the Jimmy's and Joe's. Saban had a .500 record in SEC play his first year with a roster that averaged 14th in the country!!! Give Bama a 15,18,11, and 10 class the next four years and see how they compete against teams that are in the top 3 in recruiting every year, like UGA.

Before you rant a bunch of NONSENSE, give me some FACTS!!! Show me a team that has won the National Championship that didn't have an average class for four years in the top 10 in the last 20 years!!! I only found one in the last 15. That was Auburn who had a four year average of top 12 talent in the country from 2007 to 2010 (won it in 2010) according to Rivals. The Jimmy's and Joe's are at least two thirds of the formula. The other third is player development (strength and conditioning), getting the most out of all the players, and X's and O's.
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What was Vandys star ratings in the last 4 classes?
What was UT's star rating the last 4 classes?

You will never find anywhere (outside of your mind) that I claim having good players doesnt matter. But if you think that great coaches dont motivate, develop and win over poor coaches with equal players you arent very bright.

And do you seriously think CJP will be mentioned in the same sentence as Saban woth regard to coaching abilities in 10 years? After witnessing blowout loss after blowout loss I feel confident stating that is highly unlikely to happen.


There IS talent in Knoxville based on recruiting rankings. More than is on a couplenof teams that humiliated the Vols this year. I would say somebody got ou coached...
 
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#103
#103
GetYouSomeofThat said:
What was Vandys star ratings in the last 4 classes?
What was UT's star rating the last 4 classes?

You will never find anywhere (outside of your mind) that I claim having good players doesnt matter. But if you think that great coaches dont motivate, develop and win over poor coaches with equal players you arent very bright.

And do you seriously think CJP will be mentioned in the same sentence as Saban woth regard to coaching abilities in 10 years? After witnessing blowout loss after blowout loss I feel confident stating that is highly unlikely to happen.


There IS talent in Knoxville based on recruiting rankings. More than is on a couplenof teams that humiliated the Vols this year. I would say somebody got ou coached...
Click to expand...

You may not hear CJP and Sabans name mentioned together in 10 years, but dont have a short memory. In 2007, his first year at Alabama, he went 6-6 in the regular season and won the independence bowl. That is a little bit better than CJP did with Tennessee this year. And at the time Saban had already been a head coach, won a Natty at LSU, and coached at Miami in the NFL. With that resume and that inogural season at Alabama, where he built his leagacy, I think we can give CJP another year or two to make changes. Again, he may have been out coached ,in his first year as a head coach mind you, and maybe he may not be the next best thing, but give him a little time to get his team right before we pass judgement on how far he will go.
 
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#104
#104
GBOVFL88 said:
You may not hear CJP and Sabans name mentioned together in 10 years, but dont have a short memory. In 2007, his first year at Alabama, he went 6-6 in the regular season and won the independence bowl. That is a little bit better than CJP did with Tennessee this year. And at the time Saban had already been a head coach, won a Natty at LSU, and coached at Miami in the NFL. With that resume and that inogural season at Alabama, where he built his leagacy, I think we can give CJP another year or two to make changes. Again, he may have been out coached ,in his first year as a head coach mind you, and maybe he may not be the next best thing, but give him a little time to get his team right before we pass judgement on how far he will go.
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Dang fellow, just stop..


Saban's 6-6 was a helluva lot better than CJPs 5-7.

No blowout losses for Saban. Multiple blowouts for UT.
Bammer had a coaching mess at least as bad as UT when he was hired. In the previous 10 seasons

Bammer had had 3 losing seasons with a 3-9 season in the streak.
Their recruiting was in the tank.

CJPs program was in no worse shape than Sabans when each took over and somehow Saban teams didnt get embarassed multiple times in his first season.

Hopefully CJP turns it around and learns what he needs to compete at a high level. Currently there exists no real world data to make one think that.
 
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#105
#105
GetYouSomeofThat said:
Dang fellow, just stop..


Saban's 6-6 was a helluva lot better than CJPs 5-7.

No blowout losses for Saban. Multiple blowouts for UT.
Bammer had a coaching mess at least as bad as UT when he was hired. In the previous 10 seasons

Bammer had had 3 losing seasons with a 3-9 season in the streak.
Their recruiting was in the tank.

CJPs program was in no worse shape than Sabans when each took over and somehow Saban teams didnt get embarassed multiple times in his first season.

Hopefully CJP turns it around and learns what he needs to compete at a high level. Currently there exists no real world data to make one think that.
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Pruitt's team was 1-6 versus the spread at home. Blowout losses were the rule, not the exception. Several close wins against high school teams couldn't have impressed recruits either. He's set the bar low for himself in terms of improvement, I'll grant that.
 
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#106
#106
Toe to Toe



painted-camel-toe-on-a-persons-groin-taken-in-leicester-england-an-picture-id632969320
 
#107
#107
Helton: Pruitt can stand toe to toe with any offensive coach: a great football mind


Toe to Toe






monster-blue-feet-picture-id696763738
 
#108
#108
GetYouSomeofThat said:
Dang fellow, just stop..


Saban's 6-6 was a helluva lot better than CJPs 5-7.

No blowout losses for Saban. Multiple blowouts for UT.
Bammer had a coaching mess at least as bad as UT when he was hired. In the previous 10 seasons

Bammer had had 3 losing seasons with a 3-9 season in the streak.
Their recruiting was in the tank.

CJPs program was in no worse shape than Sabans when each took over and somehow Saban teams didnt get embarassed multiple times in his first season.

Hopefully CJP turns it around and learns what he needs to compete at a high level. Currently there exists no real world data to make one think that.
Click to expand...

Matter of perspective; that 3-9 season was 8 or 9 years before Saban took over...not the year prior. They definitely had some coaching challenges after Stallings left; Francione (violations and bolting) put them in as much of a bad spot as Shula did IMO.

UA had recruiting issues due to sanctions as much as poor records. BTW, also one 1 top 10 record and one as 11 in that same period. How many upperclassmen did Saban inherit that went on the play in the NFL?....will probably be more than our VOLS had this year. They weren't in the best spot, but no where near as bad as what CJP had to work with.
 
#109
#109
JC61 said:
Matter of perspective; that 3-9 season was 8 or 9 years before Saban took over...not the year prior. They definitely had some coaching challenges after Stallings left; Francione (violations and bolting) put them in as much of a bad spot as Shula did IMO.

UA had recruiting issues due to sanctions as much as poor records. BTW, also one 1 top 10 record and one as 11 in that same period. How many upperclassmen did Saban inherit that went on the play in the NFL?....will probably be more than our VOLS had this year. They weren't in the best spot, but no where near as bad as what CJP had to work with.
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this is simply rewriting history to back your viewpoint.

Alabama had just had a coach that never made it the practice field. Even the UT admins haven't screwed the pooch that badly on any hire.

2006 4 players drafted, rounds drafted 2,2,3,5
2007 3 players drafted, rounds drafted 4,7,7
2008 0 players drafetd, rounds drafted
2009 3 players drafted, rounds drafted 1,3,3
 
#110
#110
GetYouSomeofThat said:
What was Vandys star ratings in the last 4 classes?
What was UT's star rating the last 4 classes?

You will never find anywhere (outside of your mind) that I claim having good players doesnt matter. But if you think that great coaches dont motivate, develop and win over poor coaches with equal players you arent very bright.

And do you seriously think CJP will be mentioned in the same sentence as Saban woth regard to coaching abilities in 10 years? After witnessing blowout loss after blowout loss I feel confident stating that is highly unlikely to happen.


There IS talent in Knoxville based on recruiting rankings. More than is on a couplenof teams that humiliated the Vols this year. I would say somebody got ou coached...
Click to expand...

You keep talking around your Jimmy's and Joe's statement that good coaches don't have to have all the Jimmy's and Joe's. Don't try to twist this debate into something it isn't. That is the debate, period. For the last time, prove to me with stats that your statement of Jimmy's and Joe's is just an excuse of average or bad coaches not getting it done. I gave you facts about Saban at Miami and his first year at Bama. With the turnover and lack of development at UT during the Botch years, Saban inherited a much better roster on paper than Pruitt and Saban went 4-4 in SEC play his first year in 2007 when Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Miss St weren't as good as they have been recently!!! Bama also went 6-2 two years before Saban got there. When was the last time UT went 6-2 in SEC play? Again, the point is Saban had four years of top ten recruiting classes the year he got there. He didn't get it done!!! Bama wasn't elite like they are now until Saban had several better recruiting classes and had the Jimmy's and Joe's!!! Bama won one NC the first 4 years. Now, Bama has won 4 of the last 7 NCs due to HAVING THE JIMMY'S AND JOE'S!!! Unfortunately for most of us on this board, Bama probably wins it this year and makes it 5 of 8 years with the Jimmy's and Joe's!!!

By the way, in response to your statement above of "You will never find anywhere (outside of your mind) that I claim having good players doesnt matter". Here is your post where the Jimmy's and Joe's debate started!!!

Your post in gray text:

"Not sure why youd make the last comment but the fact you're a coach for any amount of years means little. Except that you likely use the Jimmy's and Joe's line a bunch.

Am friends with many guys and gals who coach and one thing I've noticed is the couple that go deep into the playoffs every year and have actually won championships rarely, if ever, use the Jimmy's and Joe's excuse. The ones who have rarely have winning seasons...that's their go to "reason" for not winning.

But the claim that so many guys on the team have no "internal fortitude" that we cant field.a competitive team is ridiculous.

Poor coaches talk about Jimmy's and Joe's, good coaches talk about Xs and Os, great coaches develop and lead Jinmys and Joe's using Xs and Os.

Great coaches also bring out the best in every player not just the handful who are driven ala JJ."

I have heard Saban say more than once during interviews that having the players is very vital to the team's success. I guess Saban is a poor coach. Even Saban has talked about the Jimmy's and Joe's a lot!!! You are beyond delusional. I am done with this debate. I have proved my points with stats. All you have done is blow out a bunch of hot air with no facts to prove your way of thinking!!! When Pruitt has four recruiting classes. You will see he has the Jimmy's and Joe's to teach his X's and O's. He will also have four classes where 95% of them won't quit on him!!! By the way, I never defended Dooley or Jones. Pruitt deserves to be defended for at least his first 18 months. If the fans don't see much more improvement about halfway through the 2019 schedule, it will be time to quit defending him. I don't see that happening. I think most everyone will see that UT has a very good coach that has the potential to be an elite coach about halfway through next season. We shall see. GO VOLS!!!
 
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#112
#112
VolsGrad1989 said:
You keep talking around your Jimmy's and Joe's statement that good coaches don't have to have all the Jimmy's and Joe's. Don't try to twist this debate into something it isn't. That is the debate, period. For the last time, prove to me with stats that your statement of Jimmy's and Joe's is just an excuse of average or bad coaches not getting it done. I gave you facts about Saban at Miami and his first year at Bama. With the turnover and lack of development at UT during the Botch years, Saban inherited a much better roster on paper than Pruitt and Saban went 4-4 in SEC play his first year in 2007 when Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Miss St weren't as good as they have been recently!!! Bama also went 6-2 two years before Saban got there. When was the last time UT went 6-2 in SEC play? Again, the point is Saban had four years of top ten recruiting classes the year he got there. He didn't get it done!!! Bama wasn't elite like they are now until Saban had several better recruiting classes and had the Jimmy's and Joe's!!! Bama won one NC the first 4 years. Now, Bama has won 4 of the last 7 NCs due to HAVING THE JIMMY'S AND JOE'S!!! Unfortunately for most of us on this board, Bama probably wins it this year and makes it 5 of 8 years with the Jimmy's and Joe's!!!

By the way, in response to your statement above of "You will never find anywhere (outside of your mind) that I claim having good players doesnt matter". Here is your post where the Jimmy's and Joe's debate started!!!

Your post in gray text:

"Not sure why youd make the last comment but the fact you're a coach for any amount of years means little. Except that you likely use the Jimmy's and Joe's line a bunch.

Am friends with many guys and gals who coach and one thing I've noticed is the couple that go deep into the playoffs every year and have actually won championships rarely, if ever, use the Jimmy's and Joe's excuse. The ones who have rarely have winning seasons...that's their go to "reason" for not winning.

But the claim that so many guys on the team have no "internal fortitude" that we cant field.a competitive team is ridiculous.

Poor coaches talk about Jimmy's and Joe's, good coaches talk about Xs and Os, great coaches develop and lead Jinmys and Joe's using Xs and Os.

Great coaches also bring out the best in every player not just the handful who are driven ala JJ."

I have heard Saban say more than once during interviews that having the players is very vital to the team's success. I guess Saban is a poor coach. Even Saban has talked about the Jimmy's and Joe's a lot!!! You are beyond delusional. I am done with this debate. I have proved my points with stats. All you have done is blow out a bunch of hot air with no facts to prove your way of thinking!!! When Pruitt has four recruiting classes. You will see he has the Jimmy's and Joe's to teach his X's and O's. He will also have four classes where 95% of them won't quit on him!!! By the way, I never defended Dooley or Jones. Pruitt deserves to be defended for at least his first 18 months. If the fans don't see much more improvement about halfway through the 2019 schedule, it will be time to quit defending him. I don't see that happening. I think most everyone will see that UT has a very good coach that has the potential to be an elite coach about halfway through next season. We shall see. GO VOLS!!!
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VengefulSentimentalArcticduck-small.gif
 
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#113
#113
GetYouSomeofThat said:
What was Vandys star ratings in the last 4 classes?
What was UT's star rating the last 4 classes?

You will never find anywhere (outside of your mind) that I claim having good players doesnt matter. But if you think that great coaches dont motivate, develop and win over poor coaches with equal players you arent very bright.

And do you seriously think CJP will be mentioned in the same sentence as Saban woth regard to coaching abilities in 10 years? After witnessing blowout loss after blowout loss I feel confident stating that is highly unlikely to happen.


There IS talent in Knoxville based on recruiting rankings. More than is on a couplenof teams that humiliated the Vols this year. I would say somebody got ou coached...
Click to expand...
I see little talent in Knoxville based on my eyes. I don’t care what the rankings said about our previous recruiting classes.
 
#114
#114
BDP! said:
I see little talent in Knoxville based on my eyes. I don’t care what the rankings said about our previous recruiting classes.
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Excellent answer when you've nothing left.

So star rankings really mean nothing. Unless, of course, it's your shiny mew coach getting them and then its validation of how great he is?

Forgive me. I'm slow and these moving targets confuse me sometime
 
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#115
#115
Simple math guys... In 2017, Butch won 4 games. In 2018, Pruitt won 5 games. One win progress.
 
#116
#116
GBOVFL88 said:
You may not hear CJP and Sabans name mentioned together in 10 years, but dont have a short memory. In 2007, his first year at Alabama, he went 6-6 in the regular season and won the independence bowl. That is a little bit better than CJP did with Tennessee this year. And at the time Saban had already been a head coach, won a Natty at LSU, and coached at Miami in the NFL. With that resume and that inogural season at Alabama, where he built his leagacy, I think we can give CJP another year or two to make changes. Again, he may have been out coached ,in his first year as a head coach mind you, and maybe he may not be the next best thing, but give him a little time to get his team right before we pass judgement on how far he will go.
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Saban didn't lose a single by more than one score in his first year.
 
#117
#117
volfannbama said:
Saban didn't lose a single by more than one score in his first year.
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If that's the biggest difference between the two coaches I say that we are at a pretty good starting point. Saban (love him or hate him) is a once in a generation type of coach. If CJP could even get close to that he is exponentially better than anyone is our recent history.
 
#118
#118
GetYouSomeofThat said:
Dang fellow, just stop..


Saban's 6-6 was a helluva lot better than CJPs 5-7.

No blowout losses for Saban. Multiple blowouts for UT.
Bammer had a coaching mess at least as bad as UT when he was hired. In the previous 10 seasons

Bammer had had 3 losing seasons with a 3-9 season in the streak.
Their recruiting was in the tank.

CJPs program was in no worse shape than Sabans when each took over and somehow Saban teams didnt get embarassed multiple times in his first season.

Hopefully CJP turns it around and learns what he needs to compete at a high level. Currently there exists no real world data to make one think that.
Click to expand...

I was not saying that the two inaugural seasons are mirror images of each other with respect to what the coaches did with their respective dumpster fires, I was saying that he started with a less than stellar performance and a similar record and has done just fine. And yes, he may have done more with the same situation or even less... But he had not only been a HC and an NFL coach before that, but had a Natty under his belt from LSU. CJP is not a Saban doppelganger, but in spite of the challenge that was and is Tennessee football upon his arrival, he hasn't crapped the bed and rolled around in it the way that a lot of NegaVols are acting. Time will tell, and maybe I will get quoted 100 times on how I thought that he would be good and he was a bust, but I think he is going to be a good coach and that he isn't being given enough credit for stopping the bleeding and changing the mindset of the players in our program.
 
#119
#119
GetYouSomeofThat said:
Excellent answer when you've nothing left.

So star rankings really mean nothing. Unless, of course, it's your shiny mew coach getting them and then its validation of how great he is?

Forgive me. I'm slow and these moving targets confuse me sometime
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Never said star ranking meant nothing. I hope we sign a ton of 4/5 star kids. I’m just saying what my eyes show me is we are terribly slow on defense, our o line is not very big or good, we don’t have many wr’s that can stretch the field because there is not a lot of speed there and they very rarely make the difficult catch other than an occasional 50 50 ball. And our QB play is average at best although I believe he passes a good ball when he has time. I believe CJP is a good coach and will turn this program around. He deserves time to do that. If he doesn’t we’ll hire another coach in 3 years.
 
#120
#120
GBOVFL88 said:
I was not saying that the two inaugural seasons are mirror images of each other with respect to what the coaches did with their respective dumpster fires, I was saying that he started with a less than stellar performance and a similar record and has done just fine. And yes, he may have done more with the same situation or even less... But he had not only been a HC and an NFL coach before that, but had a Natty under his belt from LSU. CJP is not a Saban doppelganger, but in spite of the challenge that was and is Tennessee football upon his arrival, he hasn't crapped the bed and rolled around in it the way that a lot of NegaVols are acting. Time will tell, and maybe I will get quoted 100 times on how I thought that he would be good and he was a bust, but I think he is going to be a good coach and that he isn't being given enough credit for stopping the bleeding and changing the mindset of the players in our program.
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I believe CJP will turn this thing around too. He just needs more than one year to do it.
 
#121
#121
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#122
#122
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#124
#124
We need a section on this forum where the Pruitt haters can get in one place and be miserable together.
 
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