Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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#70,526
#70,526
engineerVOL said:
No they’re not. But You can absolutely recruit to Tennessee coming of a deplorable string of seasons. If not, I guess Pruitt will never dig himself out considering we just posted another losing season with mediocre talent.

Wanya and Lampley are not enough to do that. Secondary could be sneaky good but front seven recruiting is lacking.
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Shouldn't we wait until we know Where Wright is going to Land before post like this?
 
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#70,527
#70,527
engineerVOL said:
No they’re not. But You can absolutely recruit to Tennessee coming of a deplorable string of seasons. If not, I guess Pruitt will never dig himself out considering we just posted another losing season with mediocre talent.

Wanya and Lampley are not enough to do that. Secondary could be sneaky good but front seven recruiting is lacking.
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Tennessee does not have the talent in state to be able to recruit like Georgia can...Georgia can easily sign a top 10 class year in year out from recruiting in state talent.
 
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#70,529
#70,529
MrVolton said:
Let me preface by saying that, although I am generally an optimist, missing a bowl because we laid down vs Missouri and Vandy and recent misses on the recruiting front aren’t a good look. But I don’t think things are nearly as bad as they’re being made out to be on the coaching search. Based on reported facts vs rumors it seems to have gone like this...

Round 1: Hugh Freeze is it. I think information came to light about Freeze and UT elected to pass. The fact that the dirtiest program in the country, Auburn, also took a pass tells me we probably made the right choice.

Round 2: Briles, Lebby, and Yurcich. Briles has a lot of strikes against him: black eye from scandal, no playbook, and gonna have to let him bring a couple of guys to get him away from an already sweet deal in Houston. There’s probably even more considering FSU hasn’t hired him yet. Pruitt and co. likely decided he’s not worth the trouble. Lebby not qualified. The ball is in Yurcich’s court, if he turns us then it’s on to round 3.

Looking at all this, I don’t think a bunch of people have told Pruitt no. I think we passed on one, couldn’t meet the demands of another, and are waiting on word from Yursich. Maybe he was offered Monday and given 48 hours to decide, who knows?

I think it’s apparent from the candidate list that has gone public that Pruitt is looking to go with an up tempo spread type offense, which may be out of his element and why a lot of more traditional pro style guys that seem to have obvious connnections may not have even been approached. I do find it very hard to believe that we would be going around interviewing guys just for fun if we’ve had our guy in the bag or even 95% in the bag.
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I have a theory about that part in bold assuming we have in fact actually been "interviewing" guys as per speculation. Pruitt may just be doing his duty as one of the most junior members of the head coaching fraternity and providing leverage to other guys to get raises or new positions benefiting themselves and their agents. In other words he’s just paying his dues to the coaching fraternity.

I also have another theory that suggests he has the Muschamp problem. He wants to hamstring the offense in order to take pressure off of his defense and everyone he’s "interviewing" is telling him that’s not their style. I suspect anyone seriously considering taking the position may likely want to debrief Helton before making a decision.

It doesn't matter to me who he hires for the OC position. It only matters to me if the guy he does hire turns out to be relatively successful doing the job.
 
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#70,531
#70,531
Bassmaster_Vol said:
You said Jones wasn’t the standard but here you bring him up. So let’s compare. Wasn’t there like 32 kids in that class? How many composite 5 stars? Pruitt will land at least 2 composite 5 stars this year. I think Jones landed 3 his entire time at TN.

Jones also had the benefit of legacy players and, as we know now looking back, many of his 4 star recruits were recruits he didn’t have much competition for I.e not wanted by other top teams. This has been confirmed by Callahan and VQ guys, not just fan speculation.

As I said, if Pruitt lands these guys were still in on, he will sign a better class than Butch ever did here in spite of the ranking
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Well, just shows that someone is always going to be wrong. Everyone was just fine with Butch signing guys with weird offer lists, because he and Welton were such amazing evaluators. So despite offered evidence and narrative, either viewpoint on this Recruiting class could be right or wrong. You think it’s fine, I think it’s trending toward disappointing. No one will know for a couple of years anyway, but my thought is if you are going to formulate a highly paid staff to specifically have Recruiting chops, it needs to have stellar results on signing day to show ROI.
 
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#70,532
#70,532
rockytop25 said:
Tennessee does not have the talent in state to be able to recruit like Georgia can...Georgia can easily sign a top 10 class year in year out from recruiting in state talent.
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Which is why they’re not comparable situations. But we have consistently recruited lights out for decades. It’s apparently possible.
 
#70,533
#70,533
McGeesPub said:
Well, just shows that someone is always going to be wrong. Everyone was just fine with Butch signing guys with weird offer lists, because he and Welton were such amazing evaluators. So despite offered evidence and narrative, either viewpoint on this Recruiting class could be right or wrong. You think it’s fine, I think it’s trending toward disappointing. No one will know for a couple of years anyway, but my thought is if you are going to formulate a highly paid staff to specifically have Recruiting chops, it needs to have stellar results on signing day to show ROI.
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Top 10 coming off 4-8 and 5-7 respectively is pretty stellar if you ask me, especially with a hard cap of 25 players and competing directly against two teams recruiting better than any team has historically.

Fans, including myself, were wrong about Butch because we wanted to believe until it became clear that he was a fraud. At least Pruitt has a proven track record of identifying, recruiting, and developing some of the top defensive players in the SEC in the past decade. The other coaches on this staff have similar track records as well. So I don't see why we wouldn't trust their evaluations until they give us a reason not to. Look at Roman Harrison, he jumped like 300 spots this season on 247 and Simmons is about to bump him to a 4 star on rivals which will make him a composite 4 star. That's a guy that nobody knew about.

Maybe we're just being fans and Pruitt will turn out to be a disaster, but he hasn't done anything to show that this is the case. he also hasn't proven he'll be the next Saban or Smart either. So he needs time.
 
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#70,534
#70,534
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Top 10 coming off 4-8 and 5-7 respectively is pretty stellar if you ask me, especially with a hard cap of 25 players and competing directly against two teams recruiting better than any team has historically.
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I’m not worried about Pruitt recruiting at all. Or any coach at Tennessee for that matter.

People and player management is my question mark with Pruitt.
 
#70,535
#70,535
beachmaster said:
I'm OK with it to a point. I just believe that some sports followers are looking at this and laughing, especially the SEC. The perception may be hurting us with future hires. "No one wants to go there" kinda thing.
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If anyone is laughing they’re laughing at the reaction of Vol fans. Or I should say overreaction of Vol fans. Opposing fans always enjoy a good meltdown.
 
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#70,536
#70,536
HankHill said:
It’s really disheartening. I opened the door on Pruitt after Missouri and vandy.... if we go through this search and end up promoting within...I’ll have one foot out of it.
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I am more interested in where this class ends up but what you posted would be concerning to me as well.
 
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#70,537
#70,537
HankHill said:
I’m not worried about Pruitt recruiting at all. Or any coach at Tennessee for that matter.

People and player management is my question mark with Pruitt.
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This OC hire is my question mark. That's probably one thing you're insinuating here. I honestly believe that if he gets it wrong we'll be looking for a new head coach in a few years. If he gets it right though, he could be here for the long term. That's why I believe he needs to get a guy with proven experience and not another nobody like Helton.
 
#70,538
#70,538
I think looking at Butch's top 5 classes and trying to compare them to Pruitt's class this year is stupid, how many 4-5 star guys did Butch recruit that he either ran off or never panned out?
Preston Williams 5 star- Transferred
Jalen Hurd 5 star- Transferred
Vic Wharton 4 star and a legacy- Transferred
Daniel Helm 4 star- Transferred

I could go on and on. My point is, if you take out all the guys that transferred from those classes, they are not a top 5 class.
 
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#70,539
#70,539
GoBigOrange86 said:
Well, look at it this way: there was reason to think Dooley would be a success based on year 1. He was one game worse than Kiffin with massive tumult and a bust of a roster. There was also reason to think Butch would be a success based on year 1. He won an additional SEC game over Dooley’s last two years and was working with a joke of an OL and one of the slowest teams I’ve ever seen.

We just don’t have enough information to comfortably prognosticate on Pruitt.
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i don't disagree with that at all.

there's a lot i like about Pruitt from a personality, work ethick, background, roots, football mind/accumen, general football philosophy etc....and a lot of that is what we need around here.

but i don't know yet how well he can/will run the entire program. i tend to believe having fulmer down the hall should be a huge benefit.

i don't blame anyone for doubting right now. @nicksjuzunk pointed it out earlier...as pumped as we were about the wins @ auburn and vs. UK, it was equallly demoaralizing to get our doors blown off by Mizzou and Vandy.

add the apparent halt in recruiting momentum, and the lengthy OC search, and it just provides the perfect breeding ground for doubt.

so i get it. we've been in a perpetual cycle of suck, and we will continue to be in it....until we're not. and i don't think anyone can say with any degree of certainty that we're not still in that cycle. and whatever signs we thought we had pointing toward us coming out of that cycle, have been removed, even if just temporarily.

so we move on to the next set of events that could lead us to believe we're coming out of that cycle....new OC, ESD, NSD...spring/summer....fall camp....2019 season. looking, hoping, wanting anything to point to that says "yep, we're gonna be ok".

and every time we've had something happen that does that (regardless of who the coach has been; they've all had moments where we thought "ok, we're on to something"), there's been something else on the heels of it that says "nope, not yet".

so anyone that doubts...i get it. can't reallyl argue with it. but just be honest about why. cause as you said, we don't have enough data to say anything about Pruitt one way or the other. it's a total TBD.

the only thing this season has provided is either evidence that we are on the right track (SEC W rorad win, SEC win, Ranked wins, recruiting) or that we're not (mizzou/vandy/usce games, swing and miss on big recruits and OC candidates).

and no matter how this turns out 3-4 years from now, you'll be able to come back to year 1 and say "see, told ya".
 
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#70,540
#70,540
rockytop25 said:
I think looking at Butch's top 5 classes and trying to compare them to Pruitt's class this year is stupid, how many 4-5 star guys did Butch recruit that he either ran off or never panned out?
Preston Williams 5 star- Transferred
Jalen Hurd 5 star- Transferred
Vic Wharton 4 star and a legacy- Transferred
Daniel Helm 4 star- Transferred

I could go on and on. My point is, if you take out all the guys that transferred from those classes, they are not a top 5 class.
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Take out all the guys who transfer from bama and they don't have the #1 class
 
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#70,541
#70,541
rockytop25 said:
I think looking at Butch's top 5 classes and trying to compare them to Pruitt's class this year is stupid, how many 4-5 star guys did Butch recruit that he either ran off or never panned out?
Preston Williams 5 star- Transferred
Jalen Hurd 5 star- Transferred
Vic Wharton 4 star and a legacy- Transferred
Daniel Helm 4 star- Transferred

I could go on and on. My point is, if you take out all the guys that transferred from those classes, they are not a top 5 class.
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Well Wharton ran off and had babies...
Helm was upset someone cursed at him.
 
#70,542
#70,542
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Top 10 coming off 4-8 and 5-7 respectively is pretty stellar if you ask me, especially with a hard cap of 25 players and competing directly against two teams recruiting better than any team has historically.

Fans, including myself, were wrong about Butch because we wanted to believe until it became clear that he was a fraud. At least Pruitt has a proven track record of identifying, recruiting, and developing some of the top defensive players in the SEC in the past decade. The other coaches on this staff have similar track records as well. So I don't see why we wouldn't trust their evaluations until they give us a reason not to. Look at Roman Harrison, he jumped like 300 spots this season on 247 and Simmons is about to bump him to a 4 star on rivals which will make him a composite 4 star. That's a guy that nobody knew about.

Maybe we're just being fans and Pruitt will turn out to be a disaster, but he hasn't done anything to show that this is the case. he also hasn't proven he'll be the next Saban or Smart either. So he needs time.
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Well if he gets top ten, that’s ok. It’s not trending that way, but maybe it will pick back up.

And that should be the floor for future classes.
 
#70,544
#70,544
jakez4ut said:
i don't disagree with that at all.

there's a lot i like about Pruitt from a personality, work ethick, background, roots, football mind/accumen, general football philosophy etc....and a lot of that is what we need around here.

but i don't know yet how well he can/will run the entire program. i tend to believe having fulmer down the hall should be a huge benefit.

i don't blame anyone for doubting right now. @nicksjuzunk pointed it out earlier...as pumped as we were about the wins @ auburn and vs. UK, it was equallly demoaralizing to get our doors blown off by Mizzou and Vandy.

add the apparent halt in recruiting momentum, and the lengthy OC search, and it just provides the perfect breeding ground for doubt.

so i get it. we've been in a perpetual cycle of suck, and we will continue to be in it....until we're not. and i don't think anyone can say with any degree of certainty that we're not still in that cycle. and whatever signs we thought we had pointing toward us coming out of that cycle, have been removed, even if just temporarily.

so we move on to the next set of events that could lead us to believe we're coming out of that cycle....new OC, ESD, NSD...spring/summer....fall camp....2019 season. looking, hoping, wanting anything to point to that says "yep, we're gonna be ok".

and every time we've had something happen that does that (regardless of who the coach has been; they've all had moments where we thought "ok, we're on to something"), there's been something else on the heels of it that says "nope, not yet".

so anyone that doubts...i get it. can't reallyl argue with it. but just be honest about why. cause as you said, we don't have enough data to say anything about Pruitt one way or the other. it's a total TBD.

the only thing this season has provided is either evidence that we are on the right track (SEC W rorad win, SEC win, Ranked wins, recruiting) or that we're not (mizzou/vandy/usce games, swing and miss on big recruits and OC candidates).

and no matter how this turns out 3-4 years from now, you'll be able to come back to year 1 and say "see, told ya".
Click to expand...

Yeah, that’s it exactly. All I’m saying is it could still go either way.

I genuinely have no inkling of whether Pruitt will succeed or not. I hope he does. I think we have to give him several years regardless, though.
 
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#70,545
#70,545
rockytop25 said:
Butch signed a top 5 class because he had a bunch of highly rated legacy recruits. Kirby signs top 5 classes because the state of Georgia is loaded every year with talent, Pruitt would sign a top 5 class at Georgia too.
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K-Mack and Dillon Bates constitutes a “bunch”?
 
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#70,546
#70,546
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Top 10 coming off 4-8 and 5-7 respectively is pretty stellar if you ask me, especially with a hard cap of 25 players and competing directly against two teams recruiting better than any team has historically.

Fans, including myself, were wrong about Butch because we wanted to believe until it became clear that he was a fraud. At least Pruitt has a proven track record of identifying, recruiting, and developing some of the top defensive players in the SEC in the past decade. The other coaches on this staff have similar track records as well. So I don't see why we wouldn't trust their evaluations until they give us a reason not to. Look at Roman Harrison, he jumped like 300 spots this season on 247 and Simmons is about to bump him to a 4 star on rivals which will make him a composite 4 star. That's a guy that nobody knew about.

Maybe we're just being fans and Pruitt will turn out to be a disaster, but he hasn't done anything to show that this is the case. he also hasn't proven he'll be the next Saban or Smart either. So he needs time.
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We all want to believe in Pruitt, too. Ive got an open mind, but haven’t seen as much as I think we need to see. JMO.
 
#70,550
#70,550
Rishvol said:
Take out all the guys who transfer from bama and they don't have the #1 class
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that's not the point and you know it.
those two classes Butch signed had abnormally high attrrition rates, well over 30% each. and that 2015 class had 30 signees, and should represent the veterans on the 2018 roster...well there were only 11 players on the roster in 2018 from that class. 1 of those was our long snapper.

only 2 left early for the NFL. 2 retired from football all together. and the rest left for whatever reason.

you can say whatever you want about Butch's recruiting. "the sell" wasn't the problem. it was everything else that came after that was.
 
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