Jamal Khashoggi

Everybody keeps on asking what we should do or why we should care... I don't want to see military action, but I guess I expect more from America than to stand up for our "friend" that just murdered and dismembered someone and was caught doing it. We know who was responsible and I do think it warrants a different stance than business as usual because he is our buddy.

I look for America to stand up for what is right when push comes to shove. In this case, Trump has woefully failed and I do hope that Congress overrides him.
 
Everybody keeps on asking what we should do or why we should care... I don't want to see military action, but I guess I expect more from America than to stand up for our "friend" that just murdered and dismembered someone and was caught doing it. We know who was responsible and I do think it warrants a different stance than business as usual because he is our buddy.

I look for America to stand up for what is right when push comes to shove. In this case, Trump has woefully failed and I do hope that Congress overrides him.

What do you want to see congress do?
 
For someone to be murdered in this awful a way and for it to be in the public eye, I would expect it to be denounced publicly, at least, and for calls for the perpetrators to be brought to justice. Other sanctions and diplomatic should be considered as well.

Possibly Trump is trying to send a signal the US press whose negative coverage he dislikes?
 
Indonesia has recently or about to execute a US citizen.

Always appreciate your willingness to engage in discussion.

I read about Frank Amado this morning after seeing this post. He was sentenced to death in 2010 for drug trafficking of a substance that I read is similar to Meth. In March of last year was moved to their jail where executions take place. He was convicted at some sort of trial, I found no details, except he and some death penalty activists saying it was unfair. I tend to question whether a foreigner can ever get a fair trial irrespective of indonesia’s court system, which I know nothing about. Also, the idea that there is such a thing as an adequate process for sentencing someone to death is a fantasy. However, It’s also true that nobody ever thinks a trial is fair if it ends in their conviction. The Obama administration decided not to intervene so, clearly, placing foreign policy expediency over American lives is not unique to Trump.

It is interesting, and contrary to my opinion, that Amado’s situation hasn’t gotten more attention unless it happened in 2010, but I certainly don’t remember it.

I don’t think that the level of attention devoted to Khashoggi’s death has much to do with the fact that he’s a journalist aside from the fact that articles were written. His ties to the United States, Donald Trump’s style of managing the news cycle, the fact that it happened in a third party country and the stink they’ve made, the gruesome manner of his death, and the fact that it was recorded all contribute more than his profession. To the extent that that is a factor at all, Trump’s criticism of the press coupled with the fact that this man was a dissident journalist, and the extent to which his occupation influenced his colleagues to write about it probably gave it a bump.

If he had been tried, sentenced, and executed in Saudi Arabia for carrying drugs into Saudi Arabia, I don’t think very many people would care. That probably happens, right? I assume a country with a king that sends minions to chop people up and dump them down a well has the death penalty.

There were also articles about another journalist that went missing and is suspected to have been murdered by MBS, before Khashoggi, that got linked to this one. It didn’t get attention. That guy wasn’t an American resident, had no ties to America.

There’s also the case of Amanda Knox. She wasn’t a journalist, but she was tried and didn’t she face the death penalty? She got all kinds of attention, again, for a confluence of reasons.

Tl;dr all my posts in this thread: Trump did the right thing by declining to do the things he could do. Altering American foreign policy over this situation would be a mistake. A moral reprimand would be window dressing with no moral authority. That doesn’t mean that what happened is somehow unimportant or unworthy of attention and ridicul. Minimizing it is gross.
 
Always appreciate your willingness to engage in discussion.

I read about Frank Amado this morning after seeing this post. He was sentenced to death in 2010 for drug trafficking of a substance that I read is similar to Meth. In March of last year was moved to their jail where executions take place. He was convicted at some sort of trial, I found no details, except he and some death penalty activists saying it was unfair. I tend to question whether a foreigner can ever get a fair trial irrespective of indonesia’s court system, which I know nothing about. Also, the idea that there is such a thing as an adequate process for sentencing someone to death is a fantasy. However, It’s also true that nobody ever thinks a trial is fair if it ends in their conviction. The Obama administration decided not to intervene so, clearly, placing foreign policy expediency over American lives is not unique to Trump.

It is interesting, and contrary to my opinion, that Amado’s situation hasn’t gotten more attention unless it happened in 2010, but I certainly don’t remember it.

I don’t think that the level of attention devoted to Khashoggi’s death has much to do with the fact that he’s a journalist aside from the fact that articles were written. His ties to the United States, Donald Trump’s style of managing the news cycle, the fact that it happened in a third party country and the stink they’ve made, the gruesome manner of his death, and the fact that it was recorded all contribute more than his profession. To the extent that that is a factor at all, Trump’s criticism of the press coupled with the fact that this man was a dissident journalist, and the extent to which his occupation influenced his colleagues to write about it probably gave it a bump.

If he had been tried, sentenced, and executed in Saudi Arabia for carrying drugs into Saudi Arabia, I don’t think very many people would care. That probably happens, right? I assume a country with a king that sends minions to chop people up and dump them down a well has the death penalty.

There were also articles about another journalist that went missing and is suspected to have been murdered by MBS, before Khashoggi, that got linked to this one. It didn’t get attention. That guy wasn’t an American resident, had no ties to America.

There’s also the case of Amanda Knox. She wasn’t a journalist, but she was tried and didn’t she face the death penalty? She got all kinds of attention, again, for a confluence of reasons.

Tl;dr all my posts in this thread: Trump did the right thing by declining to do the things he could do. Altering American foreign policy over this situation would be a mistake. A moral reprimand would be window dressing with no moral authority. That doesn’t mean that what happened is somehow unimportant or unworthy of attention and ridicul. Minimizing it is gross.

Very well written . The question I have is with all the outrage Turkey is having over this happening in the Saudi’s consulate , why is it not shut down ? I’m positive if it happened inside the US we would close the consulate and kick them out .
 
Would you pay $4 a gallon for gas over this guy?

I don't think we should sacrifice our moral compass for economic concerns. Get some worldwide support and hurt the Saudis into compliance. Trump is being a pu$$y on this one.
 
Very well written . The question I have is with all the outrage Turkey is having over this happening in the Saudi’s consulate , why is it not shut down ? I’m positive if it happened inside the US we would close the consulate and kick them out .

I’ve seen some headlines speculating that Turkey has some agenda in this but I think it was behind a paywall. I don’t know enough about the relations between the three countries to even hazard a guess.
 
I have read now 2 of our resident antifa democrats have brought up "moral compass" (Must be a talking point from CNN) but I always find it rich when liberals talk about morals.

By the way I have no idea why I care about this guy.
 
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I have read now 2 of our resident antifa democrats have brought up "moral compass" (Must be a talking point from CNN) but I always find it rich when liberals talk about morals.

By the way I have no idea why I care about this guy.
I wonder if those folks cared when Obama sold them hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons used to obliterate Yemen.
 
I am going to guess that's a no. I guess the outrage from the left is he was a "journalist"?
It absolutely is. They didn't care until "one of their own" became a casualty to the Saudis. Now they have to get indignant about it, and of course it's a chance to blame Trump for being "too friendly" to the Saudis even though this is a thing that has gone on since FDR.
 
Maybe it’s been mentioned and I just glossed over it, but why was this dude even in a Saudi consulate in Turkey anyway? Apparently he wasn’t too well liked by very powerful Saudis. Why go?
 
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Are you unwilling to acknowledge the vast gulf between “his death wouldn’t be significant if he wasn’t a journalist” and “we should go to war?”
OK, so we have defined the limits. What should we do? Personally i think this has gotten more than enough atrention. Time for the next liberal outrage.
 
I wonder if his murder was legal under Sharia law? Morally, I think the majority of us see his murder as wrong, but I'm curious how it's seen through the lens of Sharia law?
His murder was wrong. Our ability to do anything about it other than lodge complaints and slap sanctions is nil.

And why in the hell would he be a dumbass and go into the damn Saudi consulate in the first damn place?!
 
Everybody keeps on asking what we should do or why we should care... I don't want to see military action, but I guess I expect more from America than to stand up for our "friend" that just murdered and dismembered someone and was caught doing it. We know who was responsible and I do think it warrants a different stance than business as usual because he is our buddy.

I look for America to stand up for what is right when push comes to shove. In this case, Trump has woefully failed and I do hope that Congress overrides him.
You said exactly zero in terms of what you expect as a response. 'Do something' is not an answer.
 
His murder was wrong. Our ability to do anything about it other than lodge complaints and slap sanctions is nil.

And why in the hell would he be a dumbass and go into the damn Saudi consulate in the first damn place?!
Perhaps he thought they wouldn't do anything since the consulate he entered was in Turkey (even though the Saudi consulate is considered Saudi soil)? Maybe he thought "I'm a journalist, they can't kill me, it'd look too bad?" Been wondering that myself.
 
Perhaps he thought they wouldn't do anything since the consulate he entered was in Turkey (even though the Saudi consulate is considered Saudi soil)? Maybe he thought "I'm a journalist, they can't kill me, it'd look too bad?" Been wondering that myself.
Like SCV said just above. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Self assisted suicide.
 
Everybody keeps on asking what we should do or why we should care... I don't want to see military action, but I guess I expect more from America than to stand up for our "friend" that just murdered and dismembered someone and was caught doing it. We know who was responsible and I do think it warrants a different stance than business as usual because he is our buddy.

I look for America to stand up for what is right when push comes to shove. In this case, Trump has woefully failed and I do hope that Congress overrides him.

Given Trump family business ties to the House of Saud it's pretty clear why he doesn't want to upset the apple cart.

Trump’s deep business ties with Saudi Arabia under scrutiny as tensions rise
 

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