Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

[LA Vol]

Helton is trying to mesh what he would like to do with Pruitt's mandate for a power run offense. Add in a mostly ineffective O-line, RBs and TEs who miss blocks and a QB still learning to read the defense and it's hit or miss. We don't have the personnel for the offense Pruitt wants-- and we're not adapting consistently to what we have. At this point, everybody's frustrated.

Edit: Sorry, Kingston-- just saw your post. We're saying the same thing.

 

[Smokeytom]

Looking forward, these are the players that have at least one more year of eligibility remaining that *I* believe have proven they have legit SEC talent:

Offense: JG, Chandler, Jordan, Jennings, Callaway, Palmer, DWA, Trey Smith
Defense: Warrior, Taylor, Thompson, Bituli, Kirkland, Jr., Gooden

Some guys like Jordan Murphy, Ryan Johnson, Jahmir Johnson, Theo Jackson, Trevon Flowers, Jeremy Banks, Mincey have shown flashes but I'm not convinced yet.

Obviously, this ain't enough and we need more.

I think the fact those last 4 FR made your list speaks for itself. We’ve seen each of them flash some real ability. It’s just coaching and health from here on out. They’ll be studs and/or true quality SEC depth.

 

[31VFL]

LWS on this weekend

after following this crew all year I have concluded can't predict them. It totally depends on which players show up, Auburn / Kentucky or Charlotte / Missouri? If we play like first two have a chance to win but if like last two it would be difficult.

As far as staff, encouraged because of beating a couple of top teams in the conference. Believe the staff is still learning how to be a staff and run a program. Still have a long way to go but I'm sure they learned a lot this year. Pruitt not ever being a head coach he has the most to learn. It will take some time because he is such a detailed X and O football coach. He loves that part of it but as time goes along he will need to learn to let go.

I just don't keep up with recruiting like I did in the past so I'm not familiar with the recruits. Morris is the only commitment I can even name. I've noticed enough to see they are in on some top recruits but I've not read up on the them to form an opinion. Bowl would be really good from a recruiting standpoint. Need to flip roster as soon as they can with better players

 

[InVOLuntary]

Did you say it after we blew out UK last week? Will you say it if we blow out Vandy next week?

I predicted a loss against KY and ate crow and gave props to the coaches. KY was easier as they were very one dimensional. I'll call them out when I think they've done poorly and give them props when they do well. Had they lost against Missouri in a hard fought ballgame I'd be much more understanding. However, we offered little resistance and looked worse than we have all season imo.

 

[InVOLuntary]

no. but our defense in the 2nd half was the reason we lost the game.

and the penalties on the o line. drive killing penalties. take a 2nd and 4 and make it 2nd and long. how many procdure penalties did we have that game? 9?

the game plan wasn't the problem. we played well enough to win that game. but the run D and the offensive penalties prevented winning more than anything else.

We lost the game for a variety of reasons. When muschamp took away the flats, we had nothing. Helton was a lost puppy in the middle of a busy street. Then the defense got tired and it was over. The penalties are the same penalties we've been having since game one.

 

[jakez4ut]

Are these guys not supposed to be these great teachers of the game? We're past game 11 and these guys still don't have it? I find it hard to accept that our guys are physically untalented and are dummies too. At some point the coaches have to be held accountable. I'm not calling fo heads. All I'm saying is my confidence is low. I still have hope.

i didn't say they were dummies. but physically? no, we're no where near where we need to be on the line of scrimmage. that can't really be debatable at this point.

as for the mental side, especially for the o line, yeah, that's one of the reasons that position is a developmental position. it does take time, to not only build up physically to take on front 7's in this conference that will rotate up to 3 guys to handle you, as the O linemen, but to also understand what the defense is doing, and how you, and your teammates are, and should, react and then be able to execute all that in about 4.5 seconds.

thinik about the if/then scenarios that may play out for the OL, QB, and WRs pre snap. and then think about that it takes at least 6 guys (maybe more) to run thru the same if/then scenarios, all come to hte same conclusion and then communicate and execute.

that just doesn't happen over night. now if we're sitting here next november and having a similar conversation, then we probably have a problem.

right now, we're just getting in the way of defenders.

 

[BruinVol]

I wasn’t following the thread and thought it was just a non-sequitor bemoaning that people regularly do trying to use the transitive property in CFB. (Although I still think you were just bringing this up to inflame)

Didn’t know the conversation was about Helton.

10-4

 

[InVOLuntary]

i didn't say they were dummies. but physically? no, we're no where near where we need to be on the line of scrimmage. that can't really be debatable at this point.

as for the mental side, especially for the o line, yeah, that's one of the reasons that position is a developmental position. it does take time, to not only build up physically to take on front 7's in this conference that will rotate up to 3 guys to handle you, as the O linemen, but to also understand what the defense is doing, and how you, and your teammates are, and should, react and then be able to execute all that in about 4.5 seconds.

thinik about the if/then scenarios that may play out for the OL, QB, and WRs pre snap. and then think about that it takes at least 6 guys (maybe more) to run thru the same if/then scenarios, all come to hte same conclusion and then communicate and execute.

that just doesn't happen over night. now if we're sitting here next november and having a similar conversation, then we probably have a problem.

right now, we're just getting in the way of defenders.

So you don't think we should see improvement by week 11?

 

[jakez4ut]

We lost the game for a variety of reasons. When muschamp took away the flats, we had nothing. Helton was a lost puppy in the middle of a busy street. Then the defense got tired and it was over. The penalties are the same penalties we've been having since game one.

it was the volume of penalties that stood out. but yeah, we've experienced that all year.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

I must be in the minority but I have zero issue with Helton.

I like Helton a lot. He has shown me glimpses of what this offense can be like when everyone does their job correctly.

 

[WriterVol]

Are these guys not supposed to be these great teachers of the game? We're past game 11 and these guys still don't have it? I find it hard to accept that our guys are physically untalented and are dummies too. At some point the coaches have to be held accountable. I'm not calling fo heads. All I'm saying is my confidence is low. I still have hope.

I think you expect too much. You keep banging the drum that they are inexperienced coaches, but how many staffs blow the doors off in year one? Of those, how many sustain the success? Not many, if any.

The coaches that thrive on two- and three-star players take years to get their systems into place. Being an underachiever whisperer is overblown. They find and develop their system players.

I'm not saying this staff will definitely have success. I'm saying year one is an extremely poor sample for future success--good or bad. I'm also not saying coaches are above criticism, but year one is a poor indicator for both the coaches and the players.

The improvement is evident, but it's extremely inconsistent--which you'd expect in year one. It's actually a good sign in my opinion (improvement, not inconsistency). Take tackling. Kentucky might have been their best tackling performance of the year. The next week at Missouri, it was among their worst. Did they forget how to tackle in one week? Did the coaches coach it out of them? I doubt it. I think it was Kingston that made a good point about going back to bad habits when things get tough.

 

[jakez4ut]

So you don't think we should see improvement by week 11?

i think we have.

missouri is/was a bad match up for us. i don't htink we made them punt. and their front 4 dominated our o line. and drew locke played like he's capable of. starting QB gets knocked out of the game in the 1st series, back up has a tird of a game. and we can't run the ball anyway.

it was WVU part 2.

but we don't beat Auburn or KY w/out finding a way to be better than we were at the beginning. yeah, there's been improvement.

 

[Memphisvol87]

Did you walk out when muschamp adjusted and our OC went into a coma?

You can be unhappy with the results and go back and say coaching was the problem. But how many times have we seen a decent play call and our players don’t execute.

We don’t have enough quality players.

Muschamp may have adjusted, and we may have lost because Helton does in fact suck at his job. I’ve just seen plenty of games this year and thought “ great play call”. Usually the bad plays are because our players can’t even block the guy in front of them.

Everyone is frustrated at losing, but coaches are not the problem in year 1. We do not have a good football team. That’s it. Everyone in the know reiterates it every week. I’m honestly beyond shocked we beat auburn on the road and Kentucky. If he beats Vanderbilt this season will be a success. We aren’t good anymore, and we won’t be until someone recruits and coaches well for more than 2 years.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I think you expect too much. You keep banging the drum that they are inexperienced coaches, but how many staffs blow the doors off in year one? Of those, how many sustain the success? Not many, if any.

The coaches that thrive on two- and three-star players take years to get their systems into place. Being an underachiever whisperer is overblown. They find and develop their system players.

I'm not saying this staff will definitely have success. I'm saying year one is an extremely poor sample for future success--good or bad. I'm also not saying coaches are above criticism, but year one is a poor indicator for both the coaches and the players.

The improvement is evident, but it's extremely inconsistent--which you'd expect in year one. It's actually a good sign in my opinion (improvement, not inconsistency). Take tackling. Kentucky might have been their best tackling performance of the year. The next week at Missouri, it was among their worst. Did they forget how to tackle in one week? Did the coaches coach it out of them? I doubt it. I think it was Kingston that made a good point about going back to bad habits when things get tough.

A lot of coaches have head coaching experience when they take a new job. You can look at that experience and draw from it. With these coaches, we have none at the head coach or coordinators. Like ive said, i don't have confidence that they'll get us back and at the same time I don't have a reason to say they won't which is why I'm not giving up on them.

Despite my best efforts to quell them, thoughts crept into my head sometime in year two that Butch wasn't going to make it. I tend to listen to those thoughts a little more these days.

 

[Nashvegas31]

Until we aren't playing 2 undersized OTs as even more undersized OGs out of necessity then I don't know how anyone can not expect that group to be inconsistent. Even still moving the ball vs Mizzu was not an issue. We moved the ball while it was still a game but turnovers dejected the team.

It never as bad or as good as it looked. At the end of the day if Chryst doesn't throw thenpick at end of half, CFA isn't lazy with ball and Abernathy makes a critical 3rd down stop then who knows how that game ends up. That was 21 Mizzu pts and took away 3/7 minimum of ours. So your talking 24-28pt swing on 3 plays at critical times in the game when we could have got back in it.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Just so people know that Great Charlotte defense has given up 72 in its last two games to fiu and Marshall

Let that sink in

Not sure what your point is. Did you need those 2 Charlotte games to come to the realization that UT's offense is really bad?

But here's another thought: in UT's last 4 games, the offense was better against 3 SEC East teams - SC, UK, and Mizzou - than against Charlotte.

Hell, come to think of it, I think UT's offense has been more effective in all 7 SEC games so far, including Bama, than it was against Charlotte.

 

[InVOLuntary]

You can be unhappy with the results and go back and say coaching was the problem. But how many times have we seen a decent play call and our players don’t execute.

We don’t have enough quality players.

Muschamp may have adjusted, and we may have lost because Helton does in fact suck at his job. I’ve just seen plenty of games this year and thought “ great play call”. Usually the bad plays are because our players can’t even block the guy in front of them.

Everyone is frustrated at losing, but coaches are not the problem in year 1. We do not have a good football team. That’s it. Everyone in the know reiterates it every week. I’m honestly beyond shocked we beat auburn on the road and Kentucky. If he beats Vanderbilt this season will be a success. We aren’t good anymore, and we won’t be until someone recruits and coaches well for more than 2 years.

I disagree, I think coaching is part of the problem in year one. Do I think they should be fired? Absolutely not. I don't think it's a crime to recognize the shortcomings of a coach. Pruitt himself said they were outcoached in the Missouri game. (I know, he's supposed to say that)

 

[jakez4ut]

yeah, people confuse what "should be" with what "is".

we're about to play our 12th game, and we need that win to be .500 on the season.

some of the comments i'm seeing the past few days feel like they're being made from the perspective of people that think we should be an 8 or 9+ win team this year.

we are about exactly where most thought we'd be at this point of the season. literally nothing has changed, except some of those same "experts" will tell you now that they think TN has probably over acheived this season given the two big wins we got in conference.

there a couple guys on the SECN that wondered if we'd be 2-6 after the first 8.

the opinion of this program, and it's roster, simply wasn't as high as some of you think it was/is/should be.

that comes later. this year, just go to a bowl game. i do think beating Vandy is important.

 

[31VFL]

2017 offensive yards per play- 4.4
2018 offensive yards per play- 5.2

2017 avg QB Passer Rating- 113
2018 avg QB Passer Rating- 142

2017 sacks allowed per game- 3.1
2018 sacks allowed per game- 2.0

2017 yards per rush attempt- 3.3
2018 yards per rush attempt- 3.6

2017 passing yards per game- 169
2018 passing yards per game- 199

2017 offensive yards per game- 281
2018 offensive yards per game- 326

2017 points scored per game- 17.8
2018 points scored per game- 20.1

2017 defensive yards per game- 431
2018 defensive yards per game- 388

2017 rush yards allowed per game- 263
2018 rush yards allowed per game- 163

College Football Stats - College FB Team Points per Game on TeamRankings.com

There are tons of other stats in the link for those interested.

 

[McGeesPub]

Well, year 1 results are playing out just like every expert predicted. 5-7 or worse. 6-6 would be overachieving according to Vegas and almost every "expert". I mean, of course it sucks watching it play out but Rome wasn't built in a day.

A bone to pick: The Vegas consensus win total being set at 5.5 does not mean Vegas is predicting a 5 win season.

 

[jakez4ut]

Until we aren't playing 2 undersized OTs as even more undersized OGs out of necessity then I don't know how anyone can not expect that group to be inconsistent. Even still moving the ball vs Mizzu was not an issue. We moved the ball while it was still a game but turnovers dejected the team.

It never as bad or as good as it looked. At the end of the day if Chryst doesn't throw thenpick at end of half, CFA isn't lazy with ball and Abernathy makes a critical 3rd down stop then who knows how that game ends up. That was 21 Mizzu pts and took away 3/7 minimum of ours. So your talking 24-28pt swing on 3 plays at critical times in the game when we could have got back in it.

yep,. and also keep in mind, MO dropped two for sure TD's in the 1st half as well. it could have been over before we ever got to the end of the 2nd qtr.

it was WVU all over again. tough match up against a much more balanced offense. way more balanced than KY or Auburn have. but i'd say that both Auburn and KY have better overall defenses than MO. it is what it is at this point.

 

[LA Vol]

IDT the coaches have ever seen a team like this. I think they thought they could fix the mental issues and build confidence through structure and discipline. But that only worked with some players. At some point, you stop trying to fix and start looking to replace. That's where we are.

 

[jakez4ut]

A bone to pick: The Vegas consensus win total being set at 5.5 does not mean Vegas is predicting a 5 win season.

i think everyone knows that.

but it does say that most people, depending on how they bet that line, probably think we're either a 4 or 5 win team or a 6 or 7 win team.

which is where we are.........................

 

[Nashvegas31]

yeah, people confuse what "should be" with what "is".

we're about to play our 12th game, and we need that win to be .500 on the season.

some of the comments i'm seeing the past few days feel like they're being made from the perspective of people that think we should be an 8 or 9+ win team this year.

we are about exactly where most thought we'd be at this point of the season. literally nothing has changed, except some of those same "experts" will tell you now that they think TN has probably over acheived this season given the two big wins we got in conference.

there a couple guys on the SECN that wondered if we'd be 2-6 after the first 8.

the opinion of this program, and it's roster, simply wasn't as high as some of you think it was/is/should be.

that comes later. this year, just go to a bowl game. i do think beating Vandy is important.

Agree. It's confusing. It seems several posters think a team they prayed for a 6-6 type season before season expect to look like a 9-10 win team. If that was the case that would be bad butch jones esque. Instead we have a 4-5 win looking team that still has shot at 7 wins.

Vandy game is critical. Lose and it can slow down recruiting momentum. Mizzu game feel goes away. It's going to be a battle. Anyone expecting a blowout will be disappointed and not realistic. Vandy will be pumped up as always. I have confidence Pruitt will have our bunch ready to match that intensity. I know one thing I would feed Jennings a lot in a game like this. He showed last yr in his rant how much hate he has for that team

 

[McGeesPub]

i think everyone knows that.

but it does say that most people, depending on how they bet that line, probably think we're either a 4 or 5 win team or a 6 or 7 win team.

which is where we are.........................

...which is not Vegas predicting a 5-7 season.