Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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This is now two staffs who can’t put together wins with this group. It’s just so disheartening. The roster is littered with 4 stars (yea yea I know).

The players must genuinely be used to losing by now. I just figured an elite group of coaches would do better. And I have to keep reminding myself that in college football sometimes there’s not much difference between a 2-score loss and a 4-score loss.

Monday musings from engineerVOL. Carry on.
 
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I mean potentially getting 6 wins (7 with a bowl win) is pretty good with meh talent and zero depth while having one of the toughest schedules in the country.
I agree they've accomplished about what they should have from a wins and losses standpoint, even if they lose to Vanderbilt. It goes more to what everyone said they wanted to see, improvement throughout the season. Are we better that we were game one? To me not much.
 
Quicker they flip the roster the better. Really all that matters is recruiting at this point. A top 10 class with 25 new guys, who aren’t used to losing, is just what the doctor ordered.

It’s getting harder and harder to feel excited about new batches of blue-chip prospects.

Just want results.
 
Are you claiming GA's roster was anywhere close to this roster from a talent perspective? GA's "under the radar" guys are our 5 stars. I agree the culture is bad and can't be fixed in one year. My problem with this staff has nothing to do with the win/loss column, it has to do with progression. This team has progressed very little from game one. They commit the same silly penalties. They can't block, can't tackle, can't cover, can't pressure the qb, and really cant run the ball. The offense is as vanilla as day one. They are as predictable as rain in seattle. To me they look like what they are, coaches finding their way for the first time in their respective positions.

I'm in no way calling for anyone's head. He needs time to improve the roster, get his type of guy in. However, I've seen nothing that tells me this guy or his staff will bring the Vols back to relevancy. I'm cheering for him as hard as anyone and by no means have I given up on him.

Recruiting will tell the story and likely will determine his ultimate success here.
Just a question: would you have said you haven’t seen any progression after the Kentucky game?

I think there’s been clear progression. It just isn’t consistent. Part of me thinks that could be due to bad matchups and part of me thinks it could be due to the strength and conditioning issues we’re crawling back from. When you get tired or when the guy across from you is kicking your ass, you go back to old habits. It happens in every sport.
 
I'm already really excited and bullish about next year's team. Here's why:

- JG with a full off season as "the guy." He'll be as experienced as just about any returning QB in the SEC with upwards of 20 starts under his belt, and he'll still just be a junior.
- Offensive Line: not only do we return every piece of our current OL, we also bring back Brandon Kennedy, perhaps even (if the good Lord wills it) Trey Smith. All of these guys will a desperately needed full off season in strength program (which many of them did not have last year due to injury), plus spring ball. On top of that, our OL recruiting class with Wanya and potentially Darnell, and some other really nice pieces, is the best in the country. Bottom line: There is no way our OL isn't substantially better next season.
- Secondary: We're returning all the key pieces except Abernathy in Warrior, Thompson, Taylor and Buchanan. We will have added some quality depth at safety through recruiting. I expect Taylor and Thompson to take major steps forward between their Freshman and Sophomore years (as is most often the case).
- Weapons: All of our offensive weapons *should* be back next season: at WR, Jennings and Callaway both have one year of eligibility remaining and should return. Palmer will definitely be back and has emerged as a real deep threat this year averaging 22 yards per catch and has almost 500 yards receiving on the year. Between the three, they have nearly 1500 yards receiving so far this season. That's a lot of production. At Tight End, Eli Wolf will be back, and DWA should be too -- a year in the s&c program and working on blocking technique could really shoot him up the draft board for the 2020 draft. At Running Back, the combo of sophomores Ty Chandler and Tim Jordan have already clawed out a combined 1000 yard season behind what is arguably the worst OL in school history. They'll both be back stronger, faster and smarter next season, and will likely have a talented freshman added to their ranks. S&C and spring practice will be monumental for Jeremy Banks development, as he needs to add more strength and learn how to hold onto the ball so that he can be more of a contributor next season as a our power back.
- Special Teams: We'll be returning all three of our K, P and KOS next year, and all three have performed very well for us this season. We have the potential to have the best kicking trio in the SEC next season.
- Coaching Continuity: While turnover can happen to any staff, I expect the nucleus of our staff to remain in place through next season, which will be a real benefit to all position groups, and to all the players better understanding the system next year. In addition, Coach Pruitt will be much more seasoned as a head coach next year. He's undoubtedly learned many do's and don'ts on the fly this year. Those lessons learned will be huge benefits next year.
- Recruiting: Our class fits our needs like a glove. We are going to add some very nice pieces down the stretch and while it may not be a top 5 class (because it isn't bolstered by taking 4-5 WRs who are historically ranked higher than guys in the trenches), it is anchored with the hog mollies we need on the OL/DL. I would expect at least 75% of this recruiting class to contribute as Freshman. These are "Pruitt's guys" and he's not going to miss nearly as much as our last staff.
- Schedule: We trade neutral vs WVU and @ Auburn for home vs BYU and home vs Miss St. Those are both games that this season we were heavy underdogs in that next season we will likely be favored to win -- BYU has really struggled under the Sitake regime, and Miss St. loses a ton from both their O and D. The SEC slate will still be tough, but I expect Mizzou and Kentucky to take steps back next year after losing key pieces from this years' respective teams. South Carolina and Vandy will have to visit Neyland, and who knows what Florida may look like next September. a 5-3 conference mark isn't an unreasonable goal, and a non-conference sweep will be the expectation. 9-3 is a reasonable prediction.

Regardless of this game against Vandy, which we all desperately want and need and can't imagine not having, we all need to stay calm and think big picture. This program is heading in the right direction and next season we will see a major turn to the good.
 
Eh it’s still too early to say that fairly, IMO.

This staff is going through a lot of firsts and still has plenty ahead of them. We’ve still gotta see what kind of adjustments and/or improvements they can make as coaches with one season under their belts as well as how the players develop in year two of these systems. What kinda of step forward they can get out of a lot of these guys in year two will be more telling about them than what we’ve seen this year, IMO.
I agree and that's what I've said since the first if the season. These guys are very inexperienced in their roles, especially at the top. They've got a lot of growing up to do. I'm not giving up on them but I've not seen anything that gives me great confidence that they'll get us back in the top three in the east.

Everyone knows how this goes, you recruit well in your first class because you sell them on the rebuild. Second class more of the same. But eventually results have to show on the field for recruits to buy what your selling every year. I think they've done a masterful job selling the future this year. I think we close very strong on this '19 class. Don't see a much better result on the field next year so the '20 class will be a little harder. By '20 we better be winning some games.
 
I'm already really excited and bullish about next year's team. Here's why:

- JG with a full off season as "the guy." He'll be as experienced as just about any returning QB in the SEC with upwards of 20 starts under his belt, and he'll still just be a junior.
- Offensive Line: not only do we return every piece of our current OL, we also bring back Brandon Kennedy, perhaps even (if the good Lord wills it) Trey Smith. All of these guys will a desperately needed full off season in strength program (which many of them did not have last year due to injury), plus spring ball. On top of that, our OL recruiting class with Wanya and potentially Darnell, and some other really nice pieces, is the best in the country. Bottom line: There is no way our OL isn't substantially better next season.
- Secondary: We're returning all the key pieces except Abernathy in Warrior, Thompson, Taylor and Buchanan. We will have added some quality depth at safety through recruiting. I expect Taylor and Thompson to take major steps forward between their Freshman and Sophomore years (as is most often the case).
- Weapons: All of our offensive weapons *should* be back next season: at WR, Jennings and Callaway both have one year of eligibility remaining and should return. Palmer will definitely be back and has emerged as a real deep threat this year averaging 22 yards per catch and has almost 500 yards receiving on the year. Between the three, they have nearly 1500 yards receiving so far this season. That's a lot of production. At Tight End, Eli Wolf will be back, and DWA should be too -- a year in the s&c program and working on blocking technique could really shoot him up the draft board for the 2020 draft. At Running Back, the combo of sophomores Ty Chandler and Tim Jordan have already clawed out a combined 1000 yard season behind what is arguably the worst OL in school history. They'll both be back stronger, faster and smarter next season, and will likely have a talented freshman added to their ranks. S&C and spring practice will be monumental for Jeremy Banks development, as he needs to add more strength and learn how to hold onto the ball so that he can be more of a contributor next season as a our power back.
- Special Teams: We'll be returning all three of our K, P and KOS next year, and all three have performed very well for us this season. We have the potential to have the best kicking trio in the SEC next season.
- Coaching Continuity: While turnover can happen to any staff, I expect the nucleus of our staff to remain in place through next season, which will be a real benefit to all position groups, and to all the players better understanding the system next year. In addition, Coach Pruitt will be much more seasoned as a head coach next year. He's undoubtedly learned many do's and don'ts on the fly this year. Those lessons learned will be huge benefits next year.
- Recruiting: Our class fits our needs like a glove. We are going to add some very nice pieces down the stretch and while it may not be a top 5 class (because it isn't bolstered by taking 4-5 WRs who are historically ranked higher than guys in the trenches), it is anchored with the hog mollies we need on the OL/DL. I would expect at least 75% of this recruiting class to contribute as Freshman. These are "Pruitt's guys" and he's not going to miss nearly as much as our last staff.
- Schedule: We trade neutral vs WVU and @ Auburn for home vs BYU and home vs Miss St. Those are both games that this season we were heavy underdogs in that next season we will likely be favored to win -- BYU has really struggled under the Sitake regime, and Miss St. loses a ton from both their O and D. The SEC slate will still be tough, but I expect Mizzou and Kentucky to take steps back next year after losing key pieces from this years' respective teams. South Carolina and Vandy will have to visit Neyland, and who knows what Florida may look like next September. a 5-3 conference mark isn't an unreasonable goal, and a non-conference sweep will be the expectation. 9-3 is a reasonable prediction.

Regardless of this game against Vandy, which we all desperately want and need and can't imagine not having, we all need to stay calm and think big picture. This program is heading in the right direction and next season we will see a major turn to the good.
I agree with all of this except one thing. We must add at least 1 but hopefully two more big time DL prospects. We are sorely lacking there in this recruiting class.
 
Just a question: would you have said you haven’t seen any progression after the Kentucky game?

I think there’s been clear progression. It just isn’t consistent. Part of me thinks that could be due to bad matchups and part of me thinks it could be due to the strength and conditioning issues we’re crawling back from. When you get tired or when the guy across from you is kicking your ass, you go back to old habits. It happens in every sport.

I think we've played 2 1/2 games of good football this year. You mention consistency, by game 11 we should be consistent.

I don't think we've seen much progression. Some is due to all that you mentioned. I've made it clear I'm no fan of our OC. I think schematically he makes it harder on our guys than it needs to be. I don't think he is capable of recognizing what the defenses weak spots are and exploiting them on the fly.
 
Our blitzes were comical too. We continue to have guys get stonewalled.. it’s like they forget they have an advantage at running full speed against an outmanned front. You can dip, spin, run around, anything... stupid.
They scored even easier once JP stopped blitzing so much...nobody criticizing him seems to want to acknowledge that. He is still the same defensive savant he has always been...he just can't make gold out of lead. He is a great defensive coach...just a sucky alchemist.
 
I agree they've accomplished about what they should have from a wins and losses standpoint, even if they lose to Vanderbilt. It goes more to what everyone said they wanted to see, improvement throughout the season. Are we better that we were game one? To me not much.

For me, I have seen improvements in certain areas like DL and DB's, WR, and intensity in most players. I think the problem is that we don't do well against teams we don't match up well talent wise. It seems when we play QB's that look like they will be playing on Sundays. They just expose our weaknesses cause they can read Defensive so well. WV, BAMA, GA, and MZ. We just don't have the talent yet nor experienced QB or OL to hang with teams like them but Vandy I believe we do. I really didn't have much confidence that we were going to be MZ but I do with Vandy if they come out like they did against UK. Just my Monday ramblings and hopes that we get win number 6 and go to a bowl! GBO!
 
Unless that marriage ends this year then those two' s success go hand and in hand.

I am sorry but this fanbase isn't going to give a bamer 5-7 years to right his wrongs of bad cordinator hires If that is what happens
Depends. If recruiting is going well and the defense is playing as we all believe they will be, we need to give him a chance to fix the offense. We don’t need another coaching search anytime soon. With a stout defense we can still be winning 9-10 games even if the offense isn’t great. Pruitt needs to be the guy for a long time. He needs to have every opportunity afforded him within reason.
 
I think we've played 2 1/2 games of good football this year. You mention consistency, by game 11 we should be consistent.

I don't think we've seen much progression. Some is due to all that you mentioned. I've made it clear I'm no fan of our OC. I think schematically he makes it harder on our guys than it needs to be. I don't think he is capable of recognizing what the defenses weak spots are and exploiting them on the fly.
we have a small margin for error offensively. that's never NOT been the case this season. it's important for this offense to be pretty productive on 1st down. 2nd and 9+ is an instant drive killer.

and that's simply because there is NO run game to speak off.

until we get an offensive line capable of doing what they want to do in the run game, the play calling honestly doesn't matter, until you get in to later downs that favor us.

past that, it's "how do we get 4+ yards on 1st down?" then everything else comes in to play.....offensive coordinators all over the country are really good play callers on 2nd and 2. there aren't very many that are good a 3rd and 17...especially when you're in the latter a lot more than the former.

fix the O line, and a lot (not all) of our problems start to go away.
 
This is now two staffs who can’t put together wins with this group. It’s just so disheartening. The roster is littered with 4 stars (yea yea I know).

The players must genuinely be used to losing by now. I just figured an elite group of coaches would do better. And I have to keep reminding myself that in college football sometimes there’s not much difference between a 2-score loss and a 4-score loss.

Monday musings from engineerVOL. Carry on.

When kids get used to losing it is hard to overcome that acceptance. You have to surround them with guys that are winners and used to winning. That is why flipping a roster is always so critical.

At the end of the day this staff has developed a lot of these nobodies into potential NFL draft picks. I know you have been depressed all yr because your are so short sighted and only know what you see from previous wk. this team is much better coached than it would have been by previous staff. Not even debatable. We aren't going tonlooo amazing every wk when we don't have the full stock.

We don't have the talent to handle man on man spread you out offense. Our front 7 needs schematic help. Mizzu/Bama/West VA showed our LB issues. Once he has a full compliment of guys to run all his packages we will he fine.

Vandy is solid on offense but doesn't spread you out like the ones that have given us trouble. We matchup better defensively than last wk. it was all theirs on paper. Mizzu was a terrible matchup for us.
 
I agree. It always comes down to recruiting. I think with this staff it's especially true. Not sure they'll ever get that "more with less thing down".
They beat UK and AU..two pretty good teams..with this collection of misfit and unfits...I call that doing "more with less". They just can't get any consistency out of them. I just don't think folks are ever going to admit how bad this roster is outside of few skill players.
 
We have to give Helton at least another year. Last thing JG needs is to have 4 OC’s in 4 years. Usually the second year is where you see improvement from the players prospective, and we also need to give Helton a little slack. This is his first year calling plays full time, he’ll get better with experience.
 
They beat UK and AU..two pretty good teams..with this collection of misfit and unfits...I call that doing "more with less". They just can't get any consistency out of them. I just don't think folks are ever going to admit how bad this roster is outside of few skill players.
People live in the moment. Last week this post wouldn’t have been written, but since we had a bad loss to a team that is clearly much better than us, the progress that has been made is forgotten and we’re back to questioning the coaches again.

This team is low on talent and has had almost no development. They are slow, small, weak, and lack toughness in comparison to the rest of the SEC. and still, Pruitt has beaten two ranked SEC teams and still had a chance at a bowl game.
 
I think we've played 2 1/2 games of good football this year. You mention consistency, by game 11 we should be consistent.

I don't think we've seen much progression. Some is due to all that you mentioned. I've made it clear I'm no fan of our OC. I think schematically he makes it harder on our guys than it needs to be. I don't think he is capable of recognizing what the defenses weak spots are and exploiting them on the fly.
I don’t disagree on Helton but I don’t think he represents the coaching staff as a whole.
 
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We have to give Helton at least another year. Last thing JG needs is to have 4 OC’s in 4 years. Usually the second year is where you see improvement from the players prospective, and we also need to give Helton a little slack. This is his first year calling plays full time, he’ll get better with experience.
I agree, unless we can hire rev Freeze
 
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