Some Perspective on "Rebuilds"

What crystal ball exactly was the UT admin supposed to use to know how the next two years were going to shake out? 2015 was, by most reasonable accounts, a pretty encouraging year for the football program.
it was, but it also left some stufff on the table, that really put things in to focus for 2016. and to me, 2016 was the year that i knew it wasn't going to work long term with Butch. even with the fl and ga w's, you still had the bad losses, which, as it turned out, was a lot closer to the truth than of the w's.
 
What crystal ball exactly was the UT admin supposed to use to know how the next two years were going to shake out? 2015 was, by most reasonable accounts, a pretty encouraging year for the football program.


the crystal ball that said that Butch was winning in spite of himself. his lies, his excuse making, the fact that not a single SEC coach respected him at all. Had we fired him when the program was "on top" which is actually kind of laughable calling it "on top" and rolled in a new HC that was an even better coach, we could be talking about contending right now.
 
the crystal ball that said that Butch was winning in spite of himself. his lies, his excuse making, the fact that not a single SEC coach respected him at all. Had we fired him when the program was "on top" which is actually kind of laughable calling it "on top" and rolled in a new HC that was an even better coach, we could be talking about contending right now.
Where was your crystal ball? You didn't get upset with him until late 2016 either, just like the rest of the fanbase. At least what can be found in the search function. Your famous "gutless coward" declaration was in 2016 before the Florida game, then you said you were wrong after we won.
 
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Winning this isnt a good thing. I'm not happy at all that I was right.
so quit freaking harping on it?

not a thing you can do about it now, it's over. so i don't get the need you have to keep going back and patting yourself on the back for it.

and it HAS NOTHING to do with the current rebuild being done now, except that it immediatley follows Butch's tenure. past that, they're unrelated and will not and should not be managed the same way, or by some new formula you've dreamed up that says if by 2020 you should fire him if you don't know and start all over.
 
it was, but it also left some stufff on the table, that really put things in to focus for 2016. and to me, 2016 was the year that i knew it wasn't going to work long term with Butch. even with the fl and ga w's, you still had the bad losses, which, as it turned out, was a lot closer to the truth than of the w's.


there were LOTS of signs in 2016 that the team had not progressed. Lots of very close calls in the first half of the season that had they gone the other way would have made the season an even bigger disaster than it was. Then the team still lost heart because the coach was not a true coach and he completely lost the locker room. Injuries took a toll but that team completely quit. Our second and third string players didnt play like they belonged on an SEC roster.
 
It's not going to negatively impact it in relation to letting that coach stay longer and do further damage. I'm saying firing and hiring a coach is hard, no matter what. so using that as a factor in decision making around firing a coach isnt a good use of time.

by your logic, Alabama firing Mike Shula should have been an utter disaster. Look what happened. Mike Shula won more games than Butch ever did. Yeah, 2006 was a bad year but look what he had done. David Cutcliffe won 10 games AT OLE MISS. One bad year and no more Eli Manning and he was done.


Shula was fired after going 6-6. Not 9-4. And, Jones won 30 games his first four years. Shula won 26. But, facts can get in the way, so let's ignore them.
 
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Where was your crystal ball? You didn't get upset with him until late 2016 either, just like the rest of the fanbase. At least what can be found in the search function. Your famous "gutless coward" declaration was in 2016 before the Florida game, then you said you were wrong after we won.


you didnt search back far enough then.
 
Before you rebuild any thing you have to tear it down. It could take 2-3 years to get rid of the past coaches stench.
 
there were LOTS of signs in 2016 that the team had not progressed. Lots of very close calls in the first half of the season that had they gone the other way would have made the season an even bigger disaster than it was. Then the team still lost heart because the coach was not a true coach and he completely lost the locker room. Injuries took a toll but that team completely quit. Our second and third string players didnt play like they belonged on an SEC roster.
it doesn't matter now. he's gone. what else you want? let it freaking go dude.

you just go to bed at night feeling really good about yourself that sometime in 2015 or 2016 you called it on butch. that should help you sleep better.
 
Shula was fired after going 6-6. Not 9-4. And, Jones won 30 games his first four years. Shula won 26. But, facts can get in the way, so let's ignore them.


My point was that Shula won 10 and 9 games and then had ONE 6-6 season and was fired. ONE season.

Meanwhile UT would have been looking to give Shula a 10 year extension the way our fans are.
 
there were LOTS of signs in 2016 that the team had not progressed. Lots of very close calls in the first half of the season that had they gone the other way would have made the season an even bigger disaster than it was. Then the team still lost heart because the coach was not a true coach and he completely lost the locker room. Injuries took a toll but that team completely quit. Our second and third string players didnt play like they belonged on an SEC roster.
I don't think anyone here is disputing that. There were signs pre-South Carolina game that the team wasn't exactly building on what occurred in 2015, and I personally resigned myself to the notion that Butch wasn't all that good of a coach after the South Carolina loss.

What I am disputing is that it was somehow crystal clear in 2013, 2014, or 2015 that Butch wasn't any good. You claim you knew and talked about it on here, but you earliest mention on here of "gutless coward" was during 2016 before Florida, then you said you were wrong, then you flipped again at the end of that season, which is where everyone else was anyway.

Geez - can we please get good again so we are talking about how good our team is doing this year instead of talking about past years? I actually enjoy debating this kind of stuff too though.
 
My point was that Shula won 10 and 9 games and then had ONE 6-6 season and was fired. ONE season.

Meanwhile UT would have been looking to give Shula a 10 year extension the way our fans are.
but not you, so reach back there a little farther, you'll get that pat on your back one day.........
 
My point was that Shula won 10 and 9 games and then had ONE 6-6 season and was fired. ONE season.

Meanwhile UT would have been looking to give Shula a 10 year extension the way our fans are.
Your logic would dictate that too because 10-2 and a top 10 ranking in year 3 would be solid evidence he had made it.
 
so we're no longer talking about rebuilding programs. just when we should fire coaches. forget the rebuild. let's plan on the failure.
 
Your logic would dictate that too because 10-2 and a top 10 ranking in year 3 would be solid evidence he had made it.
lol.

mwa be like...
tenor.gif
 
it doesn't matter now. he's gone. what else you want? let it freaking go dude.

you just go to bed at night feeling really good about yourself that sometime in 2015 or 2016 you called it on butch. that should help you sleep better.



Youve gone on so many tangents that you missed the original point of me even commenting on this thread.

We CANNOT be wrong again. We cant fall under someone's spell because they might win 9 games in spite of themselves. We need a good head coach and even if the record isnt 10 wins, after yr 3 you can absolutely tell if a coach is the right guy. We cannot waste another 5 years if Pruitt isnt THE guy.
 
so we're no longer talking about rebuilding programs. just when we should fire coaches. forget the rebuild. let's plan on the failure.


If you're still rebuilding after 3 years then you werent really rebuilding at all. Just playing around.

anyway, that's all I had to say.
 
I didn't limit the search to any time period. Your first use of that phrase was on September 24, 2016. If your crystal ball was telling you Butch was bad before then, then you evidently didn't say it on here.

Search results for query: gutless coward


Well yeah, that was my first use of that specific term but certainly wasn't the first time I said Butch sucked and wasn't the coach UT needed.
 
Youve gone on so many tangents that you missed the original point of me even commenting on this thread.

We CANNOT be wrong again. We cant fall under someone's spell because they might win 9 games in spite of themselves. We need a good head coach and even if the record isnt 10 wins, after yr 3 you can absolutely tell if a coach is the right guy. We cannot waste another 5 years if Pruitt isnt THE guy.
and i've addressed that. and you've conveniently skipped responding to it by doing what you do....you went all half cocked about some random baseball manager, and i'm taking it off on tangents?

you're one of the most consistently inconsistent posters on this site, i'll give you that.
 
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My point was that Shula won 10 and 9 games and then had ONE 6-6 season and was fired. ONE season.

Meanwhile UT would have been looking to give Shula a 10 year extension the way our fans are.


How is that different than Jones? Jones had one bad season after back-to-back nine win seasons and was fired. Only difference is Jones had two pretty good years before the bad one. Shula only had one good season.
 
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How is that different than Jones? Jones had one bad season after back-to-back nine win seasons and was fired. Only difference is Jones had two pretty good years before the bad one. Shula only had one good season.
because he "knew". and he's here to collect on his "i told you so's".
 
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It was not clearly apparent Butch was not a top coach until midway through the 2016 season. Of course it is obvious now, but let's not act like the writing was on the wall about Butch in 2013-14 or something crazy like that.

For what it's worth, I never believed in either Dooley or Jones. I was upset when Dooley was hired but could understand it to a degree due to the awful position Kiffin left us in; I was disgusted when Jones was hired because it seemed to be a K-mart hire when we could have gotten someone better if we had been willing to spend the money (and if a certain family had not been pulling the strings). From his second season on, I never watched a game that made me believe in Jones. It seemed to me that anytime he ever spoke he revealed how unqualified he was to be coach at any Power 5 program.

I was cautiously optimistic about Pruitt when he was hired because, unlike Jones, he had accomplishments, if not as a HC, at the Power 5 level, and significant ones that closely paralleled Kirby. I agree that it's too early to judge him; but the early returns do not look promising. Even recruiting, where he promised to take us to the very top, does not look markedly different from Jones other than a better focus on the offensive and defensive lines. The coaches that succeed now in the SEC at the highest level dominate from the start on the recruiting trail - look at what Jimbo is already doing, or what Kirby did with his first full class, or Saban with his first full class.
 
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For what it's worth, I never believed in either Dooley or Jones. I was upset when Dooley was hired but could understand it to a degree due to the awful position Kiffin left us in; I was disgusted when Jones was hired because it seemed to be a K-mart hire when we could have gotten someone better if we had been willing to spend the money (and if a certain family had not been pulling the strings). From his second season on, I never watched a game that made me believe in Jones. It seemed to me that anytime he ever spoke he revealed how unqualified he was to be coach at any Power 5 program.

I was cautiously optimistic about Pruitt when he was hired because, unlike Jones, he had accomplishments, if not as a HC, at the Power 5 level, and significant ones that closely paralleled Kirby. I agree that it's too early to judge him; but the early returns do not look promising. Even recruiting, where he promised to take us to the very top, does not look markedly different from Jones other than a better focus on the offensive and defensive lines. The coaches that succeed now in the SEC at the highest level dominate from the start on the recruiting trail - look at what Jimbo is already doing, or what Kirby did with his first full class, or Saban with his first full class.
not gonna really argue this because it's still year one, and on one really knows. and i don't really want to argue the recruiting angle cause this class isn't signed.

i'll just say that from a profile and type of player standpoint, there are very markedly differences in the way this staff recruits vs. the last staff.

a lot more physicality in the type of players this staff goes after vs butch and co, and defeinitley not willing to go after a kid because of some superficial reason unlike the last staff would. there's a purpose behind who they go after. i never got that feeling with Butch. you'd be wowed with the ranking. but as we now know, not all rankings are created equally.

lss, i'll feel a lot better about this class sitting at 12 or 13 than i did about butch's 7th ranked classs. or even that 4th ranked class. hindsight obviously plays a role there, nothing i cand do about it. i think most of us were excited with those two classes at the time.

we'll find out about the development later on.
 
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