It’s not unprecedented

#51
#51
VolFreakJosh said:
Yea, let’s just fire our way into getting an OC.

You know, since this job is so attractive right now?
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This job has never been attractive. We play UGA, Florida & Bama every year and Tennessee is not a hot bed for recruiting; however middle Tn is getting better.
 
#52
#52
BreatheUT said:
Here is another thing. You talk about hanging out on the recruiting board well you should know these coaches haven't even had one full year of recruiting. What does it look like if a struggling program starts firing coaches after their first year. It would look totally unstable.
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Nah, Saban did it. So the unquestioned GOAT of coaching did it, that means every coach should be able to. I mean in 2007, Saban had already won a NC before coming to Bama. But even though Pruitt is a first time HC, he should still be just as good as a NC winning coach through 5 games.
 
#55
#55
BreatheUT said:
Here is another thing. You talk about hanging out on the recruiting board well you should know these coaches haven't even had one full year of recruiting. What does it look like if a struggling program starts firing coaches after their first year. It would look totally unstable.
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I don’t know man. It might look like we had a HC who couldn’t stomach losing (just like his 6 NC having boss) and was determined to get the coaches who would give me the best chance to win. But to be honest with you, I’m arguing with someone who said practically verbatim that things got worse for Jones after he started replacing coaches despite the fact that that’s completely false both from an overall record and from wins over our two biggest rivals. So I’m going to politely go ahead and beg out of this conversation with you as well. Best wishes.
 
#56
#56
sonofUT62 said:
Kiffin and Cheney got Georgias defensive Coordinator fired with an Oline that was as limited as this one. Maybe you weren’t watching when we were trotting out the Sullins twins and a center who had to retire due to knee damage.
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Didn’t he also have Montatio Hardesty, Bryce Brown, Jonathan Crompton, and two offensive lineman drafted in the fourth and fifth rounds?

5 NFL players. That team wasn’t depleted on offense. Luke Stocker was a better blocker than any TE on our roster and serviceable in the passing game
 
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#57
#57
Check my stats, but I said in the summer that we'd know what kind of team we have in the 2nd half of the 1st game (as a baseline with hopes of incremental improvement) and we'd know what kind of coaching staff we have in the 2nd half of the UF game. Whelp.....both were not very good - and here we are. We might have a chance at 6 wins - might. If so, our team will improve if for no other reason the extra practices. If not, harder sell to come to UT with recruits and more mediocrity.

This is for sure, I'm tired of seeing programs with less talent, less tradition, less facilities, less fan base, less TV coverage, lesser paid coaches, less recruiting budget - turn their programs around in much, much less time. Something is FUBAR at UT.
 
#58
#58
Vol_from_86 said:
Didn’t he also have Montatio Hardesty, Bryce Brown, Jonathan Crompton, and two offensive lineman drafted in the fourth and fifth rounds?

5 NFL players. That team wasn’t depleted on offense. Luke Stocker was a better blocker than any TE on our roster and serviceable in the passing game
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Well Crompton was benched twice the year before, received death threats and almost transferred. I wouldn’t say he had Crompton, more that he got his potential out of him.The OL I would say was a push due to the fact that Kiffin had to start two walkons but the unit as a whole had more recently received competent coaching. Kiffin definitely had better receivers than Helton in Stocker, Jones and Moore. Kiffin May have had slightly more talent but he put up 4 times as many points as we scored today and basically got Martinez canned. Some would probably respond that UGA has a better D today and that would definitely be true.
 
#59
#59
BigOrangeTrain said:
Agreed. I mean take Helton and Sherrer. Both are rookies at their perspective positions, but it seems that people expect them to be much better. Even though these coaches inherited a team that went 0-8 in SEC play last year. But they are supposed to magically make the worst team in the SEC last year into a much improved one in 5 freaking games? Its sad and embarrassing that some fans are this insane.

People who believe this whole process of continual hiring and firing works are just fooling themselves. Look at UK for an example. They are playing great football. It took Stoops 6 years. At some point, the fans are going to have to realize that a new HC, who has replaced an ENTIRE staff needs time.
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I guess it never occurred to Pruitt to hire some more proven coordinators to help with his own learning curve as a first time head coach?

As it is, this staff likely isn't going anywhere for 3 years or more.
 
#61
#61
sonofUT62 said:
Well Crompton was benched twice the year before, received death threats and almost transferred. I wouldn’t say he had Crompton, more that he got his potential out of him.The OL I would say was a push due to the fact that Kiffin had to start two walkons but the unit as a whole had more recently received competent coaching. Kiffin definitely had better receivers than Helton in Stocker, Jones and Moore. Kiffin May have had slightly more talent but he put up 4 times as many points as we scored today and basically got Martinez canned. Some would probably respond that UGA has a better D today and that would definitely be true.
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I thought you were leaving?
 
#62
#62
BreatheUT said:
I thought you were leaving?
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No I said I was done talking to either an idiot or a flat out liar. That guy definitely made some valid points instead of showing up with some BS remark about “bad posts and the woodwork” and then completely backtracking on a previous comment. I was perfectly fine to talk to him.
 
#65
#65
ATLVols said:
Back off. You don’t know who you’re talking to. Offensive football is something I know more than most on this board. Helton has been weak for us so far. Can he become a good one? Probably, but he put us in a bad position to win until the 2nd half of this game.
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Oh boy.
 
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#66
#66
sonofUT62 said:
I don’t know man. It might look like we had a HC who couldn’t stomach losing (just like his 6 NC having boss) and was determined to get the coaches who would give me the best chance to win. But to be honest with you, I’m arguing with someone who said practically verbatim that things got worse for Jones after he started replacing coaches despite the fact that that’s completely false both from an overall record and from wins over our two biggest rivals. So I’m going to politely go ahead and beg out of this conversation with you as well. Best wishes.
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Here is another thing you can start to lose steam ever as your program has more success. It just means that the staying power of success will be shorter.

Butch was the beneficiary of the early sales pitch of playing time from instate players and Vols legacies that contributed to impact guys. As those guys became upperclassmen Tennessee won a few more games but Tennessee lost some important recruiting battles as that offense you talk about struggled.

After Bjak had laid most of the groundwork for this guy but Bjakian decided to leave in January 2015 for the NFL. He finally committed to the Vols.

BREAKING: Nation's No. 1 QB commits to Tennessee

The next day this guy commits.

Elite WR Higgins picks Tennessee

They were probably a package deal as they both expected the Vols to showcase a profilic passing offense with guys like Josh Malone, Von Pearson and others.

This article was from the same time frame.

Trevor Lawrence is No. 1 for 2018

In each case Debord has yet to coach his first play at Tennessee. These guys had already seen Bjakian's offense.

Later that year, Dobbs throws for a shade under 2300 yards or 177 yards a game. Our top receiver had 38 catches and 409 yards.

2015 Tennessee Volunteers Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

I don't know if it had anything to do with the decommits on offense but just because we had star players recruited under Bjakian didn't mean we didn't need more. The players we have now are the ones recruited during Debord's tenure.
 
#67
#67
BeardedVol said:
A good OC, has to take stock of the players he has, and schemes around them. We saw for 5 years, what trying to shoehorn an offense without the personnel gets you.

This isn't one game, Helton hasn't called a good game outside of the second half of the ETSU game, which was ok, all year. Even against paltry UTEP, he couldn't dial up a consistent offense.

I wouldn't fire him mid season, but if the offense continues on its current trajectory, I don't see how Pruitt risks another year with him considering we aren't likely to see much oline improvement before 2020.
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On one hand he seems to be struggling with play calls but in fairness I don’t know how much is limited with personnel.
 
#69
#69
People really don't get that having a crap oline almost makes it impossible to be even a decent QB.
 
#70
#70
UTK said:
People really don't get that having a crap oline almost makes it impossible to be even a decent QB.
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You would probably have called the Penn State O line garbage tonight. Luckily they did have a for real dual threat QB who could run. Our O Line performed pretty well against GA today
 
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#71
#71
Helton is dependent on Friend to get the oline playing well. Friend is the third coach this line has had, and none have been able to get them playing well. Firing Helton won’t fix the oline. I am afraid it will take recruiting. If the oline becomes serviceable by the last 4 games we have the right guys. If not changes will be needed.

Helton’s O is based on play action. If he can’t run it, he won’t be successful throwing it. His offense needs to be balanced. Without balance the D will know what’s coming and stop it.
 
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#72
#72
BigOrangeTrain said:
Agreed. I mean take Helton and Sherrer. Both are rookies at their perspective positions, but it seems that people expect them to be much better. Even though these coaches inherited a team that went 0-8 in SEC play last year. But they are supposed to magically make the worst team in the SEC last year into a much improved one in 5 freaking games? Its sad and embarrassing that some fans are this insane.

People who believe this whole process of continual hiring and firing works are just fooling themselves. Look at UK for an example. They are playing great football. It took Stoops 6 years. At some point, the fans are going to have to realize that a new HC, who has replaced an ENTIRE staff needs time.
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WooHoo

if we fans can just be patient our team can be just like Kentucky...makes men want to vomit.

WTF did CJP hire a freaking rookie to begin with? And pay him $1.2m?

Hopefully this staff can turn it around sooner rather than later but as they say, the proof is in the pudding. Well right now Big Orange pudding tastes like ass and it doesn't appear the cooks are doing much about it.

Helton is in over his head currently and if yall think fans are just going to keep showing up to watch ridiculous beat downs one right after the other without complaining, I'd say you're in for a surprise.
 
#73
#73
Helton is running some of the same plays he did at USC. The difference is he doesn't have Sam Darnold at QB, a veteran OL and receivers who can block downfield and get separation. The offense relies on good blocking and JG going through his progressions. When he has time he made some good throws and when the OL was able to open holes the RBs got good yardage. By the SC game we should see a more complete team effort as the starters will be set to run the table and get the bowl berth.
 
#74
#74
I dont think he really needs to be fired. I mean the main problem is the lack of passing plays early, and the predictable running. All we really need to do is pass to set up the run instead of run to set up the pass. The actual plays are for the most part fine, its just when he does what. Im sure they can adjust that, if pruitt feels the same way we do. I just hope they do and dont keep trying this after this week. Obviously we had a spark when we started passing. If we can get JG in rhythm early, we can stay in a lot of the games left this season.
 
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