Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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#23,552
#23,552
jjay2518 said:
Dumbest rule in football. I would say the same thing if it had happened to FL. How do you change possession without the defense touching the ball? It's idiocy.
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Its way too punitive. Enough with concussion related rule changing until they get that one right.
 
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#23,553
#23,553
jjay2518 said:
So unless I'm reading it wrong, you're argument is that since our OL is so bad, Helton shouldn't even try to scheme to hide it as much as he can.

Yeah the players made more than enough mental errors to lose this one on their own, but if he continues to try and force a square peg in a round hole with our OL the rest of the season it will hurt our slim chances to win.
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But it will help them learn in the long run. Can’t take shortcuts now but this season is going to hurt.
 
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#23,555
#23,555
SugarCC said:
Nothing to realize, just because BruinVol says there is. I disagree with you, because I believe you to be wrong. That's what I realize.

You haven't the slightest idea that we would've lost. That the most absurd thing I've heard. Execution IS the game. You take off the board potential TD's (like the Pope play), drives, momentum shifts because of said potential TD's and drives, it's the ball game. We go in and score there, we're sky high, they aren't. Who knows what comes next? Instead we fumble, now we're low as we can go, they're sky high, and we know what happened next.
We get the onside kick, we're sky high, with potential to cut it to 14-10, after disasterious start. Now they're low. Who knows what comes next? What happened? We failed to get onside kick, because 5 Vols couldn't take it away from 1 Gator, and they go down and score. They're sky high even more, and we are low as we can go.

And as I keep saying, I can go on and on with examples of failed execution or turnovers being what got us blown out, NOT being outcoached.

Learn the game of football, dude. Learn about execution, sustain drives, momentum, and taking advantage of opportunities when given them.
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Are the coaches responsible for how the players execute?
 
#23,556
#23,556
InVOLuntary said:
Other coaches take over programs and improve them. This staff is not, yet. Yes, many of the turnovers were directly attributal to coaching decisions.

And by the way, I know what quotation marks mean. This is a message board not a term paper. Get over it.
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Obviously you don't, don't get mad at me because of it...just letting you know to help you out.

Also, if you think, "many of the turnovers were directly attributal to coaching" (that's how quotation marks should be used), this whole conversation has been my fault, and I apologize to everyone...I didn't realize I was talking to a cinder block.
 
#23,557
#23,557
Absolute horrible no call holding on our OL on that Pope play. Everyone around me going crazy and I was looking for the flag
 
#23,558
#23,558
SugarCC said:
We turned the ball over 6 times, in CRUCIAL, TERRIBLE places, and you're stressing coaching as the reason why we got blown out...and I'M being the ridiculous one?! Whatever makes you feel better, bro.
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You are misstating or just not comprehending. I never “stressed” the loss on coaching. In fact, I clearly said the players made mistakes. But if you can’t see that some of the turnovers or mistakes were brought on by some questionable coaching, then we can’t help you.

Helton can improve. But it’s a bad omen, and he called a bad game. That UF defense was there for the taking for the first time in a while. No creativity. Every play has an effect on another. Screaming at them to quit running every first and second down. Use your freaking personnel correctly. We aren’t calling for anyone to be fired. Just call better.
 
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#23,559
#23,559
SugarCC said:
Obviously you don't, don't get mad at me because of it...just letting you know to help you out.

Also, if you think, "many of the turnovers were directly attributal to coaching" (that's how quotation marks should be used), this whole conversation has been my fault, and I apologize to everyone...I didn't realize I was talking to a cinder block.
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First sign of losing an argument is pointing out grammar. Just saying.

Just trying to help you out there.
 
#23,560
#23,560
I do not know what most here honestly expected this year. A team does not go 4-8 and 0-8 in the SEC one year and then turn around and compete for the top spot the next year. This is a multi-year rebuild. It did not fall this low over night and it will not be straightening d out with one off-season workout program a a fall camp. Year two should be better, as long as recruiting is decent and then in year three is were we will see the benefits of patience and hard work.
If you want to go all jump off the bridge every game this year, feel free. I just want to see improvement. The kicking game is as good or better than it was last year as a whole, so that is a plus. Small steps folks, small steps.
 
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#23,561
#23,561
InVOLuntary said:
No you don't automatically bring that out. That's asinine. Many dont bring kicks out that are in the endzone. He brought out several and didn't make the 20.

How about take a knee and put it on the 25?
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How about bring it out and make a play! Isn't that why players get scharships, to make plays? Glad you're not the coach, man. That's exactly what Butch would do. I'd bet the house, that with this new rule, Butch would have his KR's fair catch, everytime. Make a play!
 
#23,562
#23,562
SugarCC said:
Nothing to realize, just because BruinVol says there is. I disagree with you, because I believe you to be wrong. That's what I realize.

You haven't the slightest idea that we would've lost. That the most absurd thing I've heard. Execution IS the game. You take off the board potential TD's (like the Pope play), drives, momentum shifts because of said potential TD's and drives, it's the ball game. We go in and score there, we're sky high, they aren't. Who knows what comes next? Instead we fumble, now we're low as we can go, they're sky high, and we know what happened next.
We get the onside kick, we're sky high, with potential to cut it to 14-10, after disasterious start. Now they're low. Who knows what comes next? What happened? We failed to get onside kick, because 5 Vols couldn't take it away from 1 Gator, and they go down and score. They're sky high even more, and we are low as we can go.

And as I keep saying, I can go on and on with examples of failed execution or turnovers being what got us blown out, NOT being outcoached.

Learn the game of football, dude. Learn about execution, sustain drives, momentum, and taking advantage of opportunities when given them.
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Such a comical post on so many fronts.

I know the game of football fine to say this coaching staff has a long way to go.

Now maybe they get there. It's certainly possible but foolishness and blindness won't make things like last night any more optimistic.

Sorry dude. Now take you bs lines and shove it up your...
 
#23,563
#23,563
SugarCC said:
How about bring it out and make a play! Isn't that why players get scharships, to make plays? Glad you're not the coach, man. That's exactly what Butch would do. I'd bet the house, that with this new rule, Butch would have his KR's fair catch, everytime. Make a play!
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How did that bringing it out work out there, pal. Maybe I should be the coach.
 
#23,564
#23,564
jjay2518 said:
Are you not aware of the new rule change? He muffed it at the one, picked it up, and ran. This year the player can signal a touchback anywhere inside the 25 and the ball comes out to the 25. After he muffed it there was no way he was going to get anywhere near the 25. He 100% should have signaled a touchback.
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You can signal for a touchback AFTER you've already caught, or in this case, attempted to catch, the ball? How does that work?
 
#23,567
#23,567
SugarCC said:
How about bring it out and make a play! Isn't that why players get scharships, to make plays? Glad you're not the coach, man. That's exactly what Butch would do. I'd bet the house, that with this new rule, Butch would have his KR's fair catch, everytime. Make a play!
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Just like that, huh? For someone who is putting a lot of effort into taking the long way around logic to build a defense for the coaching last night, you’ve oversimplified this counterpoint.
 
#23,568
#23,568
InVOLuntary said:
First sign of losing an argument is pointing out grammar. Just saying.

Just trying to help you out there.
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Says you, and we've already seen all the other bs you've said tonight, so that doesn't mean very much, imo.
But, hey, at least you have Bruin and Chief agreeing with you, so...you've got that going for you, I guess.
 
#23,570
#23,570
Well... I guess I'm ready to blend my noise in with the discussion you've already got going.

1. 99 Problems, and 'bout all of 'em are OL: For whatever reason, lack of size, strength, talent, buy in... our OL is continually awful, and our All-American Trey Smith has not been up to All-SEC level yet. This severely hampers Helton, who is not completely off the hook in his playcalling. However, I believe Will Friend is a very good OL coach, which means it is a matter of time, and not "if ever" regarding the OL. I said after the WV game that it would take a minimum of 3 years before this team looks anything like what we hope (8+ wins) and I still say that is accurate. Friend needs his dudes in here building, and he needs the dudes that are already here building. They absolutely do not have the stuff right now. Frankly speaking, outside of Trey Smith, I don't think anyone beyond current Freshmen will amount to much on this team. Play out of neccesity, because there is nothing else, but would not play on a team of OL like we are trying to build.

2. Helton's Hell: This leads me to point two. First of all, Helton probably has 70% limitation in his play calling based on what the OL is giving him. Shocking. Elite OC's still find a way to be somewhat productive even with OL deficincies. It is nearly to the point of working magic though. One thing is clear, Helton is not an elite OC 4 games into his first full-time gig. He's not even been good. The predictability of the offense is because he's squeezed into a 30% mould, and he is honestly struggling how to make it work. Best case scenario, is he grows from this. Worst case, is he continues forward hard headed, and we continue to run the ball 26 times on first down. A chef needs ingredients to cook, and an OC needs an OL to score. The chef can still get something on the table if you give him leftovers, but don't expect Michelin Star quality. Helton's cooking with leftovers.

3. Execution vs. Scheme: We have to look objectively at what is going wrong here. So much of these issues are arising from player mis-executions. Now, if you like to find fault with the coaches in every single thing, you would argue that they should have them better prepared, taught, etc. If you defend the coaches, you say "they aren't on the field". The truth is probably somewhat in the middle, but time after time, I see where things should work, but the players don't make it work. The Pope fumble on a brilliant call and routine extension towards the goal line, the onside kick that was perfectly executed, and somehow it looks like the Tennessee players don't realize they can destroy the Florida player there. Low snap fumble, blindside strip sack, INT... so much of this is execution.

Now when we look at scheme, we've already discussed the offense, and how the OL is limiting an OC who hasn't been able to do much to counter that. Defensively, this team played well. I want to draw attention to 4 Florida scoring plays:


A. 38 yard TD pass to Cleveland: Theo Jackson is in absolutely perfect position, but can't find the ball on his outside shoulder on a tightly thrown pass to the endzone. It was a brilliant pass, but the player is in position to defend that ball.

B. 65 yard TD pass to Swain: Great coverage by TN secondary flushes Franks out of the pocket. Inexplicably, the TN DB, Flowers or Jackson from memory drops coverage to come up into no man's land if Franks tucks it. Franks has not tucked it. He has it cocked and loaded, and hits a wide open Swain for a easy catch and run to the endzone.

C. 19 yard TD run to begin second half: Mentally, after the first half miscues, the Shamburger fumble took the soul of this team prior to this play. The effort was not there at all.

D. 65 yard Goal line defense TD: This was the bizarre call by Pruitt to line up in goal line defense, knowing if they got through, they would score. I really don't understand the thought process here. Maybe he knew the game was completely over, and wanted to see if they would man up for a single play... I don't know, but Florida scored. If Tennessee takes care of A, B, C, you probably never see D.

So with these plays, you have 3 mis-executions, and one schematic problem that would never be made if the game was within striking distance. Of course you can't cherry pick what to keep and lose in a game, but look at what these 4 errors cost.

187 yards = 48% of Florida's offensive production.

Florida was a dismal 3-11 on 3rd downs. That's good overall defense. This game is not on the coaches. The players allowed big plays and turned it over.
 
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#23,571
#23,571
Kingston Vol said:
I’m not disputing that! But the same **** was said about Florida all year last year and coming into this game and somehow they got over it. What’s the difference? They lost just as many games as we did last year. They had a coaching change just like we did. They had a total schematic change on both sides of the ball just like we did. Why were they able to come out and shove our faces in the dirt?
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Actually they played one less than us haha.
 
#23,573
#23,573
VolGee4 said:
You are misstating or just not comprehending. I never “stressed” the loss on coaching. In fact, I clearly said the players made mistakes. But if you can’t see that some of the turnovers or mistakes were brought on by some questionable coaching, then we can’t help you.

Helton can improve. But it’s a bad omen, and he called a bad game. That UF defense was there for the taking for the first time in a while. No creativity. Every play has an effect on another. Screaming at them to quit running every first and second down. Use your freaking personnel correctly. We aren’t calling for anyone to be fired. Just call better.
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I have said it all night: yes, playcalling in some places was very puzzling, personnel choices, too; but, nowhere near the effect of turnovers or blocking. I don't believe in the playcall attributing to turnovers; yes, every so often a bad playcall can, but I believe it's rare. I believe in non-execution or great defensive plays leading to turnovers. If a defender makes a great play, that doesn't necessarily mean that the playcall was bad. If the QB throws it right to the defender, that doesn't necessarily mean the playcall was bad. If 5 Vols can't come down with an onside kick, over 1 Gator, that doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad call to do it.
Again, yes, coaching has to be better; but, not to the point that we need to debate it for as long as we have.
 
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#23,575
#23,575
SugarCC said:
Says you, and we've already seen all the other bs you've said tonight, so that doesn't mean very much, imo.
But, hey, at least you have Bruin and Chief agreeing with you, so...you've got that going for you, I guess.
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Dude, you've been roasted all night. There's been numerous examples how the coaches didn't help out our players but your answer always falls back to lack of execution. That's a lazy excuse. Whose responsible for teaching the players how to execute? The coaches. This team isn't appreciably better at any position group than it was under Butch last year.

Look, I'm happy that you can buy in on another coach that hasn't proven a thing. Your blind optimism is great. Do I think Pruitt is destined to fail? Absolutely not. Am I heeding for him? Absolutely. But, I'm not buying, blindly into a coach anymore. He's gonna have to prove it to me. To this point I've seen very little to make me believe he's the guy but I'm not ready to give up on him. He is literally doing on the job training.
 
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