The Official 2nd Amendment Appreciation Thread

[Grand Vol]

Which one do you prefer? You saw the pic of AR #2 with the Nikon P-223, right? Would be nice to be able to do a left-hand charge on that one without having to come off the scope.

Impossible on any stock AR. You have to remove your face from the weapon in order to charge.

Save the Adcor Defense. And I think Asa Arms or something like that.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Impossible on any stock AR. You have to remove your face from the weapon in order to charge.

Save the Adcor Defense. And I think Asa Arms or something like that.

Good point. Somehow, that obvious fact completely escaped me. I was thinking more of Wednesday, when using my HD AR. The long (really long) eye relief of the Aimpoint PRO allows me to stay more or less on target while I rack the bolt. Not so with a scope.

What I'll probably do, to keep things consistent from rifle to rifle, is see how I like the Raptor. If so, I'll get another one. If not, I'll be back to "Oracle GV" for a recommendation on what to do.

Should I consider a bipod for the scoped AR? I'm not even really sure what role it plays in my Department of Defense. As you know, I bought the 2nd AR for redundancy, and then somehow it ended up with a scope on it. I'd be hard pressed to think of a realistic situation where I'd need to make a long shot, but...nice capability to have. That's what led me to the IMI 69gr SMK's.

When you get a few minutes, I'd like to hear what you think. I'm not specifically looking to spend money, but I am looking to get to the point where I can step back and say "They're good as they are. Stop messing with them."

All good out that way? Been really, really busy here. Today be "Yard Day". You could film a Vietnam documentary in my back yard.....

 

[Grand Vol]

Good point. Somehow, that obvious fact completely escaped me. I was thinking more of Wednesday, when using my HD AR. The long (really long) eye relief of the Aimpoint PRO allows me to stay more or less on target while I rack the bolt. Not so with a scope.

What I'll probably do, to keep things consistent from rifle to rifle, is see how I like the Raptor. If so, I'll get another one. If not, I'll be back to "Oracle GV" for a recommendation on what to do.

Should I consider a bipod for the scoped AR? I'm not even really sure what role it plays in my Department of Defense. As you know, I bought the 2nd AR for redundancy, and then somehow it ended up with a scope on it. I'd be hard pressed to think of a realistic situation where I'd need to make a long shot, but...nice capability to have. That's what led me to the IMI 69gr SMK's.

When you get a few minutes, I'd like to hear what you think. I'm not specifically looking to spend money, but I am looking to get to the point where I can step back and say "They're good as they are. Stop messing with them."

All good out that way? Been really, really busy here. Today be "Yard Day". You could film a Vietnam documentary in my back yard.....

Or you could just accept the fact variety is the spice of life and realize your second AR is morphing into something entirely different than your patrol rifle. I get the premise, but face facts, your basic controls and operations aren't going to change from rifle to rifle. Malfunction? Tap, rack and fire. Swap mags? Hit release, grab new, insert, smack bolt release, continue to engage.

No whiz bang parts you currently own make the basic functions any different. Maybe easier, but certainly not any different than what you normally perform. So the "muscle memory" in regards to having two identical rifles is still there, just using different parts. This is also why I'm not a big fan of the BAD Lever for my rifles when I was in the .mil. It changes that basic practiced pattern from something I know what to do without thinking to something different. And if I'm picking up a second rifle without it, I'm at a disadvantage because I'm taking that split second to look for a device to operate that's not there and have to "remember" to hit the bolt catch instead. Same thing with my Adcor to an extent. Great concept on the forward charging handle, bad practice to get into unless you're using the same design full time. Learning something new changes the training and acting without thinking you've instilled over the years and presents a time lapse when not using it. And microseconds count when on the two way shooting gallery.

Anyway, minor training rant over and I'd never not recommend a BAD lever if someone wanted one...bad enough. But unless you have one installed on ALL rifles you're setting yourself up for problems if the SHTF and you grab the first available rifle another officer hands you to enter the fight.

Back to the initial point. Having two identical rifles is a perfectly acceptable solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. The .mil does it because they buy the base model M-4 or M-16. Basically, it's like buying a Kia without the CD changer and power windows. It's a cost saving measure. If they had the money (and the individuals who knew WTF they were doing when it comes to small arms...different rant, different time) imagine how many neat toys, triggers and whatnot would be on the basic issue M-4? You ever see the SOF guys and their toys? They get all the cool stuff. Because they're shooters and have unlimited budgets. Not the same for the .mil as a whole. But regardless of the ninja gear they have installed, I'd flat guarantee you malfunction and reloading drills are nearly identical to what your Buck Private learns during basic training.

With radically different rifles, mind you. But the controls are in the same place. Police are a little different most of the time so long as you aren't getting crazy with the cheese whiz. They allow for the officers to put different items on and check the "issued a patrol rifle" box.

I think it's time you tell Mrs. GW you need to buy a third rifle as your playtoy test bed article. That way you can buy cool ninja gear to test them out. And if they work, transfer over to your "work" rifles.

 

[Grand Vol]

As for the bipod question, don't have a lot of experience with them but Harris tends to be the first mentioned in most places. Regardless of the design, I'd start by thinking of a quick detach mount since it adds a lot of weight for lugging around unless you plan on benching it for good.

 

[Grand Vol]

Last, but certainly not least, @GreyWolf1129 there are some additional concerns I have with "standardized" rifles I can discuss offline. Something a person and I had a falling out over years ago.

 

[txbo]

Which one do you prefer? You saw the pic of AR #2 with the Nikon P-223, right? Would be nice to be able to do a left-hand charge on that one without having to come off the scope.

Unless you have a malfunction, you won't have any need to use the charging handle.

 

[txbo]

Harris bipods have been the reference standard for many years. If you're on a budget, they are a great value. Sturdy and reliable. Downside is they are hard to preload because of design.

If you can spend a little more, check out the new Magpul bipod at about $100.

If you can spend in the mid $200s, Atlas bipod. They add the flexibility of 5 positions, pan and cant, and are the easiest to preload.

There are more expensive bipods than Atlas but they would be overkill on a .223.

 

[buckfama]

I have been looking at other sites and see a ton of folks are using suppressors.

What is the attraction? Your weapon still has a report, it's not like the little "pfft" sound they make it sound like in the movies. I do realize that you can get subsonic rounds and make it quieter.

But in a real life, shtf situation, if you are engaged with an individual or a group, they know where you are. Unless your sniping, I don't see the benefit.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

I have been looking at other sites and see a ton of folks are using suppressors.

What is the attraction? Your weapon still has a teport, it's not like the little "pfft" sound they make it sound like in the movies. I do realize that you can get subsimic rounds and make it quieter.

But in a real life, shtf situation, if you are engaged with an individual or a group, they know where you are. Unless your sniping, I don't see the benefit.

I have mixed opinions on suppressors for civilian use. Just hear me out...

Way back when I could run with the herd, our SRT carried fully suppressed MP5N's. And they were sweet. Despite the supersonic round, the action cycling made more noise than the shot, at least from behind the gun. I never fired it in a live entry, but in hundreds if not thousands of live-fire exercises, comms and sensory awareness were never affected by an MP5 being fired, even inside a room.

Our SRT (I'm no longer attached) now carries fully suppressed 5.56 SBR's. They make a bit more noise, but are still really quiet, at least at the range. Put one of those beside any other 5.56, like mine, and there's no mistaking how much noise they knock down. Our M/O team uses suppressed .308's, and they make a hard-to-describe "pop-whistle" that...still...is way, way below what you get from a normal .308 shot.

So if you're trying to cut down on noise in a dynamic entry, or minimize acoustic slap when firing from a concealed position, suppressors are the way to go. They definitely have an application in the military / LE environment.

As for making them available to the civilian market, I have one and only one concern: Finding a suppressed weapon can be tough, especially when rounds are flying. That concerns me. Yes, the acoustics of a normal, unsuppressed shot can be tough as well...but handing the bad guy a suppresser is, IMO, simply tilting the scales even further in their favor. That part, I don't like.

They're cool...they can be used to keep the noise down at an outdoor range (if everyone uses them)...and they're cool. They add nothing to accuracy...they add length....they add weight...and for some reason they seem to add more crap when you clean the weapon. Then you have the BATF process, and the cost, and God-help-you if it gets stolen. But they're cool.

If you want one, go get it. Be prepared to wait months, if not a year, for the paperwork to go through. And they are fun. But for me, they add nothing to my gun that I'll ever need. To each their own.

Go Vols.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Unless you have a malfunction, you won't have any need to use the charging handle.

I've been very fortunate with all of my guns. I have yet to experience my first serious malfunction. Many years ago, I did have a stovepipe with an S&W 645 I owned back then. But that's it. Through I don't know how many guns, and a gazillion rounds...one malfunction. But you know the rule about "just when you really don't need it to happen..."

Plus, we do drills with built-in malfunctions. One of the range guys will load our mags for the combat course, and he's been known to stick a fired case somewhere in the middle, or near the top. Sometimes two, if he's in a mood. Thus, my need.

It pi**es me off. He always seems to get me when I'm transitioning to the second of two "shoot targets" in a timed drill. Last week, he gave me two in a row. Thaaaat sucked. But I know why he does it, and hopefully I'll never have to thank him for giving me a skill that saved my life.

Trust me, I need the handle. I work with sadists.

Go Vols.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Last, but certainly not least, @GreyWolf1129 there are some additional concerns I have with "standardized" rifles I can discuss offline. Something a person and I had a falling out over years ago.

Send it at your leisure. You have my email.

 

[txbo]

I've been very fortunate with all of my guns. I have yet to experience my first serious malfunction. Many years ago, I did have a stovepipe with an S&W 645 I owned back then. But that's it. Through I don't know how many guns, and a gazillion rounds...one malfunction. But you know the rule about "just when you really don't need it to happen..."

Plus, we do drills with built-in malfunctions. One of the range guys will load our mags for the combat course, and he's been known to stick a fired case somewhere in the middle, or near the top. Sometimes two, if he's in a mood. Thus, my need.

It pi**es me off. He always seems to get me when I'm transitioning to the second of two "shoot targets" in a timed drill. Last week, he gave me two in a row. Thaaaat sucked. But I know why he does it, and hopefully I'll never have to thank him for giving me a skill that saved my life.

Trust me, I need the handle. I work with sadists.

Go Vols.

Great to have the skill....still impossible to not loose your cheek weld with an ar.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Great to have the skill....still impossible to not loose your cheek weld with an ar.

Yeah, I was looking for ambidextrous. Had you seen me "swatting wasps" when JT surprised me with that second dead round last week, you'd have peed yourself.

I shoot quarterly. I just want to surprise his butt in November.

 

[txbo]

I have been looking at other sites and see a ton of folks are using suppressors.

What is the attraction? Your weapon still has a teport, it's not like the little "pfft" sound they make it sound like in the movies. I do realize that you can get subsimic rounds and make it quieter.

But in a real life, shtf situation, if you are engaged with an individual or a group, they know where you are. Unless your sniping, I don't see the benefit.

Many times a good one actually improves precision, better for your ear, and does serve as a flash suppressor.

 

[txbo]

Yeah, I was looking for ambidextrous. Had you seen me "swatting wasps" when JT surprised me with that second dead round last week, you'd have peed yourself.

I shoot quarterly. I just want to surprise his butt in November.

That’s great but you’re not going to do it without loosing your cheek weld.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

That’s great but you’re not going to do it without loosing your cheek weld.

Agreed. I haven't tested it, but I'm thinking that with an ambidextrous charging handle, I should / might / maybe able to cycle the bolt without losing my picture through an Aimpoint PRO. Not so much stay on target, just keep the target in sight. Plus that standard Colt charging handle is a pain to find when you're stressed/sweating/pissedoff/weren'texpectingthattohappen.

I dunno. Have to wait and see. But I clearly need some (better) way to clear a malfunction.

I'm good with constructive criticism. Keep doing it.

 

[txbo]

Agreed. I haven't tested it, but I'm thinking that with an ambidextrous charging handle, I should / might / maybe able to cycle the bolt without losing my picture through an Aimpoint PRO. Not so much stay on target, just keep the target in sight. Plus that standard Colt charging handle is a pain to find when you're stressed/sweating/pissedoff/weren'texpectingthattohappen.

I dunno. Have to wait and see. But I clearly need some (better) way to clear a malfunction.

I'm good with constructive criticism. Keep doing it.

A side charging handle accomplishes your mission but that’s going to cost you some coin.

 

[BigOrange15]

Yep, it came down to the BCM and the Radian. Flipped a coin; came up Radian. The fact that you like it tells me I chose well.

Now, should I put one of those on my long-range AR, or is that just overkill?

Raptors are excellent imo. I have them on both my ARs now and love them.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Raptors are excellent imo. I have them on both my ARs now and love them.

Installed it, and played with it a bit out in the garage. So far, I like it. We'll see what happens this weekend if the Wx cooperates and I get to test it.

Probably going to leave the stock charging handle on the long range AR. What with the scope being on that one, there's no need to fix something that isn't broken. Gotta come "off point" regardless.

As always, appreciate the advice and feedback.

 

[Grand Vol]

Installed it, and played with it a bit out in the garage. So far, I like it. We'll see what happens this weekend if the Wx cooperates and I get to test it.

Probably going to leave the stock charging handle on the long range AR. What with the scope being on that one, there's no need to fix something that isn't broken. Gotta come "off point" regardless.

As always, appreciate the advice and feedback.

Try the Gunfighter...

It's life changing.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Good write up on the Philippine Garand returns.

 

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[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]