Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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#5,127
#5,127
DUB V Nation looks ahead to the possible outcome of their 2018 season:

Worst Case Scenario: 3-9 (2-7)

The horror begins in Charlotte. Tennessee’s defense looks much improved and stifles Will Grier all day long. On defense, the Mountaineers’ secondary is exposed and can’t seem to slow down Stanford transfer Keller Chryst. S-E-C chants echo throughout Bank of America Stadium and West Virginia exits 0-1. Youngstown State comes out swinging against the Mountaineers in Morgantown, but Grier and Sills prove to be too much in the second half. West Virginia moves to 1-1. In week three in Raleigh, Grier throws 2 interceptions while Wolfpack signal caller Ryan Finley tosses 3 touchdowns and cements himself as the new leader for the Heisman trophy.

Typical of a Bill Snyder coached Kansas State team, the Wildcats limit their mistakes, protect the football and defeat West Virginia in convincing fashion in week 4. After suffering through a 1-3 start to the season, Will Grier and company travel to Texas Tech hoping for better results in week 5. On the back of a potent offense and the swirling Lubbock winds, the Red Raiders deliver even more misery to the Mountaineers. Holgorsen fires offensive coordinator Jake Spavital and retakes control of the offense.

A home game against the woeful Jayhawks allows West Virginia an opportunity at a conference win. Milan Puskar Stadium, however, is nearly empty and the singing of “Country Roads” after the victory is cut short after the PA announcer is found asleep on the job. After falling to the upstart Cyclones in Ames in week 7, the Mountaineers come back home and scrape by with its third and final win of the season over Baylor.

The final four games of the season against Texas, TCU, Oklahoma State and Oklahoma play out the same way. West Virginia is stuck playing catch-up in each contest and walk away from the 2018 season with its worst record of the Holgorsen era. Oklahoma wins the Big XII and Sooners quarterback Kyler Murray wins the Heisman. Athletic director Shane Lyons fires Holgorsen and calls on Lane Kiffin to take over the football program. Grier goes undrafted and is delegated to the CFL where he will be Johnny Manziel’s backup.

Worst and Best Case Scenarios for the Mountaineers in 2018
 
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#5,128
#5,128
VolGee4 said:
It’s called circumstances. Fulmer had just been fired. I hate that you think this argument can be made in a vacuum. Dooley had at about 6 NFL players starting on offense.
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Call it whatever you like. I call it 45-23, on a day when Cincy very well could have pulled off the upset.
My point with bringing up Wyoming was an example of an upset, to combat posters who say, 'Cincy should never beat UT in Neyland'...sound familiar. In no way am I comparing the two, just showing an example of a time when a smaller school came into Knoxville and beat us, something Butch could not do, against Dooley.
 
#5,129
#5,129
SugarCC said:
You just answered the question and don't even realize it. UT was ripe for the picking that day to be upset by Butch and Cincy, by far his best team while he was there. Not only could they not pull off the upset, but Dooley coached circles around him that day, and UT blew them out. You can say he beat UF, UGA, whoever; but, he is still 0-1 against the man you say was worse. I mean, Wyoming was able to upset Fulmer, Butch couldn't upset Dooley?!?! Again from now on, my answer will be, 'Butch tried running the spread option with Justin Worley', because this has always justified it in my mind, along with countless other reasons, that Butch Jones is the worst coach we've ever had.
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I think Butch was simply a system coach. Could not cater the offense to the strengths of his personnel whatsoever. Just didn't know how IMO. He sucked.
 
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#5,130
#5,130
SugarCC said:
Hey, I'll be the first to admit every dog has his day. Too bad Butch couldn't have his the day he met Dooley head to head, couldn't even get close, actually.
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Meaningless game. Dooley never won a meaningful one. Butch won several. Including snapping a decade plus Gator winning streak. There’s just no success whatsoever for Dooley . Dog without a day.
 
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#5,131
#5,131
Outofmyvolcanmind said:
Yep. Would’ve meant Cam wouldn’t have been booted and started and won 3 consecutive championships there.
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Urb would have had a dynasty there at UF had Cam worked out. On the subject of ol Urb though, the more I think about it, the more I think OSU will find a way to hold on to him.
 
#5,136
#5,136
TNrockytop4ever said:
Hadn’t seen this part of the AK article discussed yet...

“Kamara and his teammates purchased BB guns at Walmart one night and fired them off randomly around campus, shooting up a pizza driver at a traffic light and a Waffle House window. They also cracked a large panel of the school's engineering building. He eventually got caught, receiving a $3,000 bill that Kamara says Tennessee paid off when he transferred.”

Did AK just call us out for a recruiting violation?
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Doesn’t really make sense. He transferred to Hutchinson CC from Bama. Did they wait an entire calendar year to collect from UT? And if an infraction occurred...Bama wouldn’t have reported it? I think he was just in a story telling frenzy because of being interviewed in a club. In any case, if Ole Miss got off practically scott free with the stank they pooped out...I ain’t worried about this.
 
#5,137
#5,137
SugarCC said:
Call it whatever you like. I call it 45-23, on a day when Cincy very well could have pulled off the upset.
My point with bringing up Wyoming was an example of an upset, to combat posters who say, 'Cincy should never beat UT in Neyland'...sound familiar. In no way am I comparing the two, just showing an example of a time when a smaller school came into Knoxville and beat us, something Butch could not do, against Dooley.
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If people will remember, that game for Cincinnati was reminiscent of last year's Florida game from a short yardage standpoint. I can remember at least two 4th and 1 or 2's where we blew up their conversion attempt. They were in the shotgun lol and tried to run out of it lol. One was down on the goal line. I remember thinking how stupid I thought that was on their part.
 
#5,138
#5,138
Chief Vol 13 said:
If people will remember, that game for Cincinnati was reminiscent of last year's Florida game from a short yardage standpoint. I can remember at least two 4th and 1 or 2's where we blew up their conversion attempt. They were in the shotgun and tried to run out of it lol. One was down on the goal line. I remember thinking how stupid I thought that was on their part.
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#5,139
#5,139
I had the pleasure of meeting some of the players the other day and talked to a couple of the coaches and since yall are talking about QBs, the one that stood out to me was Shrout. That kid has SEC Qb written all over him.

Met JG and Christ too, both are good looking prospects, size wise, but Shrout just stood out to me. And he could probably add another 15-20lbs. Watched them all throw and Shrout just needs the reps with 1s and 2s, cause he has that moxy you look for.

Just my lil two cents on Practice.

Oh and Bituli is a going to continue the great LBs of the past. The LB corps is his. He is def the Alpha of the group. He takes control of that defense, gets in people’s grills if they aren’t giving their all. He chewed out two guys, no names, and didn’t shy away from letting others know that’s it’s all or nothing.

There is def a change of attitude on the field.
 
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#5,140
#5,140
SugarCC said:
Call it whatever you like. I call it 45-23, on a day when Cincy very well could have pulled off the upset.
My point with bringing up Wyoming was an example of an upset, to combat posters who say, 'Cincy should never beat UT in Neyland'...sound familiar. In no way am I comparing the two, just showing an example of a time when a smaller school came into Knoxville and beat us, something Butch could not do, against Dooley.
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You’re not really painting it as an upset tho. You built too much expectation and meaning into an inferior team beating a more talented one. Head to head with evenly matched teams is a better evaluator than if the underdog coach doesn’t win. With the same program Butch had better results.
 
#5,141
#5,141
Derek Dooley lost a game we literally had WON on the road in Baton Rogue because he could never get the right amount of guys on the field. A problem that we had for a long time when he was our coach.

Remember our Special Teams with Dooley? We didn't put a returner back during punts because we muffed everything!

He also lost to Kentucky for the first time in 26 years and they were starting a backup QB.

There really is not much of a debate here,
 
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#5,142
#5,142
SugarCC said:
And if that's what you got out of what I was saying, have at it. You're wrong, but go ahead.
You said yourself, Cincy should never beat UT in Neyland. So, by this assessment, Wyoming should have never beaten Fulmer and UT in Neyland...on Homecoming. It's called an upset. My point was, why couldn't Butch, with a far better team than Wyoming, pull off the upset, if he is such the superior coach?
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It’s called an upset for a reason. It’s not supposed to happen. It’s the exception. Tennessee roster way better than Cincinnati’s, it was also at Neyland.

Don’t forget cinci was ahead early which is a clear indication they were ready to play but then athletes took over.

Both coaches went on to coach at UT and butchs tenure at UT is worlds better than dooleys ever thought about being.

If the single measuring stick in your stance is butch is worse because he lost to DD while at cinci then so be it but its not a very good one. Butch beat mark richt... is he a better coach than richt?
 
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#5,143
#5,143
KPT_VFL said:
Dooley and Butch used different formulas to reach the same answer: Failure. /discussion
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The ride with Butch was a hell of a lot more fun.

Better recruiting, more wins, more bowl games, more bowl wins, better rankings, more NFL players, better teams, better academics, left better program when fired.
 
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#5,144
#5,144
R0CKYT0P 16 said:
Derek Dooley lost a game we literally had WON on the road in Baton Rogue because he could never get the right amount of guys on the field. A problem that we had for a long time when he was our coach.

Remember our Special Teams with Dooley? We didn't put a returner back during punts because we muffed everything!

He also lost to Kentucky for the first time in 26 years and they were starting a backup QB.

There really is not much of a debate here,
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This isn’t true.




Kentucky started a WR at QB 🤢
 
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#5,145
#5,145
R0CKYT0P 16 said:
Derek Dooley lost a game we literally had WON on the road in Baton Rogue because he could never get the right amount of guys on the field. A problem that we had for a long time when he was our coach.

Remember our Special Teams with Dooley? We didn't put a returner back during punts because we muffed everything!

He also lost to Kentucky for the first time in 26 years and they were starting a backup WR AT QB.

There really is not much of a debate here,
Click to expand...
fyp
 
#5,147
#5,147
Good lord people, there's no direct comparison between these two coaches.

There are comparisons between Bear Bryant and General Neyland because they're similar programs in the same era.

Butch was at a(n already good) G5 while Dooley was at a P5. Butch inherited Dooley's roster in 2013, sans offensive and skill players.

"Without Dobbs, where's Butch?" Yeah, Dobbs saved Butch's skin, but it's not like we're only going to play 10 players on offense. Worley was a Dooley recruit.

Y'all are seriously making me pine for the good ol' MJ/LBJ or Tyson/Ali arguments.

Dooley-- joke of a program, hyped 1.333 out of 2.9 years, great talent on the final roster, zero meaningful wins
Butch-- joke of a program, hyped 2 out of 5 years, great talent buoyed his resume but was also his downfall when we didn't live up to expectations, and a few meaningful wins.. some credit for Florida 2016, but not really because he choked against them in 15 and last year. He did make Spurrier retire though.

Don't let the prospect of being hip and contrarian take away from the fact that Butch was better overall than Dooley. It's not a blazing hot take. It's just objective truth.
 
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