We are an entitled, petty, barbaric country: Handicapped parking shooting

#329
#329
I watched the long version. Changes my opinion a little. Guy should be charged with manslaughter...yes..but:

The pusher didn't even take time to assess the situation. He tries to be a bigshot, blindside a weaker guy, and I am not sure that he wasn't going to stomp the sheet out of him before the gun comes out and changes his mind. He looks to be moving TOWARDS the downed, weaker man until he drew...

Shooter still shouldn't have fired, unless he 1. Saw a gun on EITHER pusher, girl, or someone else he thought was involved or 2. Either one of them said that they would shoot, stab, or otherwise threaten his life...which we don't have audio..

Still think it's a bad shoot, and he didn't need to do that.

Like someone else posted though...what if that was a cop? What would he have done with his pistol drawn and a guy knocks him on his butt? Shot? Would he be charged??? What If the cop was black and the pusher was white?
 
#330
#330
MercyPercy said:
What do you think about his alleged history?
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I've already said. I suspect he is a major jerk that acts too tough because he has a gun, and he should have been arrested a couple of times already by the sound of it.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's not against the law to debate the ethics of handicap parking or even whether it's legal to argue in public.
 
#331
#331
marcusluvsvols said:
I watched the long version. Changes my opinion a little. Guy should be charged with manslaughter...yes..but:

The pusher didn't even take time to assess the situation. He tries to be a bigshot, blindside a weaker guy, and I am not sure that he wasn't going to stomp the sheet out of him before the gun comes out and changes his mind. He looks to be moving TOWARDS the downed, weaker man until he drew...

Shooter still shouldn't have fired, unless he 1. Saw a gun on EITHER pusher, girl, or someone else he thought was involved or 2. Either one of them said that they would shoot, stab, or otherwise threaten his life...which we don't have audio..

Still think it's a bad shoot, and he didn't need to do that.

Like someone else posted though...what if that was a cop? What would he have done with his pistol drawn and a guy knocks him on his butt? Shot? Would he be charged??? What If the cop was black and the pusher was white?
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That was me. No answers to that one so far that I've seen.
 
#335
#335
marcusluvsvols said:
I watched the long version. Changes my opinion a little. Guy should be charged with manslaughter...yes..but:

The pusher didn't even take time to assess the situation. He tries to be a bigshot, blindside a weaker guy, and I am not sure that he wasn't going to stomp the sheet out of him before the gun comes out and changes his mind. He looks to be moving TOWARDS the downed, weaker man until he drew...

Shooter still shouldn't have fired, unless he 1. Saw a gun on EITHER pusher, girl, or someone else he thought was involved or 2. Either one of them said that they would shoot, stab, or otherwise threaten his life...which we don't have audio..

Still think it's a bad shoot, and he didn't need to do that.

Like someone else posted though...what if that was a cop? What would he have done with his pistol drawn and a guy knocks him on his butt? Shot? Would he be charged??? What If the cop was black and the pusher was white?
Click to expand...

You nailed it on the audio. Let's say "what if" the Barney wannabe was saying something to the effect of "I'll drag your uppity n*gger ass out of the car and b*tch slap you like you deserve."

Not saying that happened, but it'd certainly get blood boiling pretty quick. It does appear there's a decent amount of time when Barney makes contact with the driver and she finally gets out (looking at the video, another car appears in an empty slot like magic). If the boyfriend overheard something like that, yeah, Barney is lucky he only got a shove.

The other half of that is the fact the boyfriend stepped away. I don't care what he says, you still aren't justified in shooting so long as he isn't presenting a threat. LG might correct me on this, but overall, the boyfriend wasn't presenting a threat at the time of the shot.
 
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#336
#336
BowlBrother85 said:
He meets the strict definition of a vigilante. He was trying to enforce a law (a freaking parking violation at that) without the legal authority to do so.
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Telling someone they shouldn't park in a handicap spot isn't enforcing the law.

"Hey your dog has to be on a leash".
"You can't drop your trash there"
"You can't smoke in here".

Happens every day. It's verbal until you make it physical. Then you've got yourself to blame.

The shooter should see some jail time I think. Boyfriend looked like he was backing away. Not sure the threat was there to justify pulling the trigger. But if you could ask the boyfriend now, do you think he'd run up and shove the guy to the ground like he did? It was dumb and escalated the situation.

It was verbal until he made it physical. Dangerous game to play nowadays because you never know what the other person is capable of.
 
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#337
#337
Grand Vol said:
You nailed it on the audio. Let's say "what if" the Barney wannabe was saying something to the effect of "I'll drag your uppity n*gger ass out of the car and b*tch slap you like you deserve."

Not saying that happened, but it'd certainly get blood boiling pretty quick. It does appear there's a decent amount of time when Barney makes contact with the driver and she finally gets out (looking at the video, another car appears in an empty slot like magic). If the boyfriend overheard something like that, yeah, Barney is lucky he only got a shove.

The other half of that is the fact the boyfriend stepped away. I don't care what he says, you still aren't justified in shooting so long as he isn't presenting a threat. LG might correct me on this, but overall, the boyfriend wasn't presenting a threat at the time of the shot.
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When I took my CC class, I distinctly remembered them saying that there's a fine line between can and should. I'm sure the weight of the world is on Barney's shoulders right now, wondering if he's going to be charged.

Doesn't the DA have that final authority? Frankly, this is one of those areas where you throw the flag for targeting and let the booth make the call.
 
#338
#338
Septic said:
When I took my CC class, I distinctly remembered them saying that there's a fine line between can and should. I'm sure the weight of the world is on Barney's shoulders right now, wondering if he's going to be charged.

Doesn't the DA have that final authority? Frankly, this is one of those areas where you throw the flag for targeting and let the booth make the call.
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Not a bad analogy. However, the Sheriff already punted.
 
#339
#339
Grand Vol said:
You nailed it on the audio. Let's say "what if" the Barney wannabe was saying something to the effect of "I'll drag your uppity n*gger ass out of the car and b*tch slap you like you deserve."

Not saying that happened, but it'd certainly get blood boiling pretty quick. It does appear there's a decent amount of time when Barney makes contact with the driver and she finally gets out (looking at the video, another car appears in an empty slot like magic). If the boyfriend overheard something like that, yeah, Barney is lucky he only got a shove.

The other half of that is the fact the boyfriend stepped away. I don't care what he says, you still aren't justified in shooting so long as he isn't presenting a threat. LG might correct me on this, but overall, the boyfriend wasn't presenting a threat at the time of the shot.
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...and, on the other hand, what if Drejka walked up to the car and said "ma'am you really shouldn't be parking here because truly disabled person might need it." Then she said "eff you, you white trash redneck m'fer. I don't need no damn cracker tellin' me what I can or can't do." And, about that time the dead man comes walking out of the store when she's all up in his face. Fact is, we don't know what was said by anybody, do we?
 
#340
#340
Grand Vol said:
Not a bad analogy. However, the Sheriff already punted.
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IANAL but I would think that the DA would have the authority to overrule the Sheriff given the video. I'd wager the Feds could as well.
 
#341
#341
TheDeeble said:
Telling someone they shouldn't park in a handicap spot isn't enforcing the law.

"Hey your dog has to be on a leash".
"You can't drop your trash there"
"You can't smoke in here".

Happens every day. It's verbal until you make it physical. Then you've got yourself to blame.

The shooter should see some jail time I think. Boyfriend looked like he was backing away. Not sure the threat was there to justify pulling the trigger. But if you could ask the boyfriend now, do you think he'd run up and shove the guy to the ground like he did? It was dumb and escalated the situation.

It was verbal until he made it physical. Dangerous game to play nowadays because you never know what the other person is capable of.
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Drejka was trying to see that a law was enforced when it didn't need to involve him. The frivolous examples you cited could (in certain cases) directly involve the person trying to see that they are followed. In this instance, Drejka had a very clear course to follow which didn't have to involve confronting the driver (Jacobs). And for about the 5th time (which nobody ever acknowledges), there is the claim from a trucker, that Drejka had threatened someone before with his gun over parking in a handicapped spot.
 
#342
#342
1972 Grad said:
...and, on the other hand, what if Drejka walked up to the car and said "ma'am you really shouldn't be parking here because truly disabled person might need it." Then she said "eff you, you white trash redneck m'fer. I don't need no damn cracker tellin' me what I can or can't do." And, about that time the dead man comes walking out of the store when she's all up in his face. Fact is, we don't know what was said by anybody, do we?
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We sure don't. Something I pointed out earlier.

Having said that to say this, he does have a confrontational history. Knowing this, does he strike you are the kind of person to "ma'am, please" someone?
 
#343
#343
Septic said:
IANAL but I would think that the DA would have the authority to overrule the Sheriff given the video. I'd wager the Feds could as well.
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I misread your post and thought you meant the LEO actions.

Yes, the DA could. Not sure about the Feds though.
 
#344
#344
1972 Grad said:
...and, on the other hand, what if Drejka walked up to the car and said "ma'am you really shouldn't be parking here because truly disabled person might need it." Then she said "eff you, you white trash redneck m'fer. I don't need no damn cracker tellin' me what I can or can't do." And, about that time the dead man comes walking out of the store when she's all up in his face. Fact is, we don't know what was said by anybody, do we?
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His boo seems to be awfully distraught. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen someone so innocent, shed so many tears out of sheer grief.....

I’ve made a mockery of this thread. I usually stay away from these, but this one has me parked..... in a handicap spot. Too soon?
 
#345
#345
Grand Vol said:
Bump for LG
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The way this works is that if he is charged his attorney files a motion invoking the defense. An evidentiary hearing is held and the burden of proof is on the prosecution to show by clear and convincing evidence that the shooter was not justified in using force that he reasonably believes was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another.

The judge decides the issue at that hearing, not a jury.

Watching the video my personal opinion is that the guy was backing off and turning away when shot. But that is not the issue. The question is whether it is clear and convincing that the shooter could not have believed he was at risk of death or great bodily harm.

An interesting point is that it looks like the gun is what caused him to back away. If you assume that, then how does the shooter know that it's the end of it? It might be. It might not be. Can the state prove convincingly that the shooter's subjective fear is unreasonable? Tough.

And here's more. The woman is going to sue him for the kids. If the shooter is found to have the immunity from the criminal prosecution, then she has to pay the shooter's legal fees and costs.

The fact is, the NRA wanted this to protect those who use firearms in these cases. And they put in scare tactics into the statutes to prevent people from taking action in cases where it's arguably not justified.
 
#346
#346
Grand Vol said:
We sure don't. Something I pointed out earlier.

Having said that to say this, he does have a confrontational history. Knowing this, does he strike you are the kind of person to "ma'am, please" someone?
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Don't have a clue because I don't know him or the dead man. I don't care if they killed each other. It was totally avoidable.
 
#347
#347
TheDeeble said:
Telling someone they shouldn't park in a handicap spot isn't enforcing the law.

"Hey your dog has to be on a leash".
"You can't drop your trash there"
"You can't smoke in here".

Happens every day. It's verbal until you make it physical. Then you've got yourself to blame.

The shooter should see some jail time I think. Boyfriend looked like he was backing away. Not sure the threat was there to justify pulling the trigger. But if you could ask the boyfriend now, do you think he'd run up and shove the guy to the ground like he did? It was dumb and escalated the situation.

It was verbal until he made it physical. Dangerous game to play nowadays because you never know what the other person is capable of.
Click to expand...

We can't ask the guy because Johnny Law put one in his chest.
 
#348
#348
Grand Vol said:
We sure don't. Something I pointed out earlier.

Having said that to say this, he does have a confrontational history. Knowing this, does he strike you are the kind of person to "ma'am, please" someone?
Click to expand...
Do we know the dead guy's history? He looked like he may have been in trouble before, too.
 
#349
#349
1972 Grad said:
...and, on the other hand, what if Drejka walked up to the car and said "ma'am you really shouldn't be parking here because truly disabled person might need it." Then she said "eff you, you white trash redneck m'fer. I don't need no damn cracker tellin' me what I can or can't do." And, about that time the dead man comes walking out of the store when she's all up in his face. Fact is, we don't know what was said by anybody, do we?
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This doesn't justify middle aged dude murdering a guy.
 
#350
#350
zeppelin128 said:
This doesn't justify middle aged dude murdering a guy.
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I never said whether he was justified or not. I wasn't there, and didn't hear everything that was said. I wasn't blindsided, and didn't know what hit me or what was coming next. The shooter may have been looking for trouble, or he may have thought he was being ganged up on, and feared for his life.

The shoving incident didn't look justified to me because there wasn't enough time for the dead guy to hear any conversation before he flew into a rage. Maybe he was high. Maybe they both were. Maybe all three.
 
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