We are an entitled, petty, barbaric country: Handicapped parking shooting

#152
#152
Rasputin_Vol said:
Handicapped parking spots. Black Friday riots. What in the world would happen if we ever ended up like Venezuela?
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After an initial surge in lawlessness, I image things would settle down as people with guns banded together and provided an incentive for courtesy.
 
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#157
#157
SpaceCoastVol said:
You could make that argument. You could also make the argument that he is dead because he assaulted a man with a gun.

Like someone else said earlier, no one wins here.
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The assault argument won't hold water because the victim in this case clearly is no longer a threat. I don't think anyone will argue brandishing the weapon wasn't lawful. But you back off at that point, get the tag and let the cops sort it out.
 
#158
#158
Grand Vol said:
The assault argument won't hold water because the victim in this case clearly is no longer a threat. I don't think anyone will argue brandishing the weapon wasn't lawful. But you back off at that point, get the tag and let the cops sort it out.
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He should have just done that from the get go. If he is a wannabe meter maid, then he should have pulled out his Obama phone and called Five O.

Interesting that you say there is no longer a threat.

Edit: I just went back to watch the video, and one thing I find amazing is that the victim's girlfriend is out in front of the press talking all about this. I don't know about you guys, but I would be out of my mind with grief were I in her situation. If some clown shot my wife like that I wouldn't be able to put together a coherent sentence for months.
 
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#160
#160
McDad said:
Shooter is 47 (I think)
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That changes my mindset. Quite a bit. I didn't watch the video, just went from what was posted here and assumed...which was stupid. I am 41, carry a 4inch, spring drive Kershaw everywhere I go, even church, it goes on when my pants go on. 6 years from now, I don't need to shoot a man, who is backing up, in order to defend myself. Murder is murder. At 47 the guy should have been able to defend himself, though he was blindsided from what I read. Still don't shoot a man backing away from you. FWIW, I choose not to carry. Ever, unless we are going to shoot at the range or my sisters house in the country. I have a temper, and know that I don't need a death machine on my person at all times...for reasons such as this. The decision not to carry makes me have less sympathy for those that do when they shouldn't and end up murdering people. A 4 inch blade is plenty of deterrent for 1 assailant, if they are unarmed I'll take my chances with 2. Have a lot more sympathy for an 80 year old than someone nearly my age.
 
#161
#161
***RoadVol*** said:
Couldn't you get up and defend yourselves without the gun first? A push or a punch does not equate to defense with deadly force.
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We were not there........I have ZERO issue with him pulling gun after the knock down.......he should NOT have pulled the trigger with the guy and girl retreating............
 
#163
#163
***RoadVol*** said:
Couldn't you get up and defend yourselves without the gun first? A push or a punch does not equate to defense with deadly force.
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There's a nuance here that is worth addressing. Introducing a weapon (any weapon, knife/baseball bat/whatever) can be passive and not used.

Take this case's scenario. A person is surprised and knocked down by someone. If you are in a disadvantageous position like that, particularly when one could reasonably claim a disparity of force (a clearly superior physical aggressor/multiple aggressor) then bringing a force multiplier (weapon) into play will almost always be considered justified. That does not mean it's use will necessarily be justified. If one pulls a firearm and everybody stops or starts backing away then you should be looking for de-escalation/egress.

When this guy pulled his gun and clearly stopped any further aggression in his direction it was a fully justified use of a firearm in self-defense. When he fired at a guy that had backed up and was literally starting to turn away any claims of legitimate defense pretty much went out the window.
 
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#164
#164
DancingOutlaw said:
I think it says something that in a country of 330M people this one incident makes the national news.
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Don't even get me started, it's a sad stupid situation where there were foolish parties involved, some more than others, and that's all it is. It's a gray area in the law, nothing more than that. Period. But, that exact story doesn't sell media traffic. Unfortunate tragedy. Due process takes time, hopefully justice is properly served.
 
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#165
#165
Grand Vol said:
While we don't know all the details, backing away from a person does not constitute a threatening move.

Did you watch the video DTH linked?
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I agree with you grand. I think when you decide to carry a firearm, you agree to be able to assess a threat level around you and act appropriately...you DO NOT become judge, jury, and executioner. If there were 2 guys, and they were about to start stomping him? Burn em both. Life threatening threat.

One guy backpedaling, ready to turn and run..that is not a threat. Murder.
 
#166
#166
hndog609 said:
There's a nuance here that is worth addressing. Introducing a weapon (any weapon, knife/baseball bat/whatever) can be passive and not used.

Take this case's scenario. A person is surprised and knocked down by someone. If you are in a disadvantageous position like that, particularly when one could reasonably claim a disparity of force (a clearly superior physical aggressor/multiple aggressor) then bringing a force multiplier (weapon) into play will almost always be considered justified. That does not mean it's use will necessarily be justified. If one pulls a firearm and everybody stops or starts backing away then you should be looking for de-escalation/egress.

When this guy pulled his gun and clearly stopped any further aggression in his direction it was a fully justified use of a firearm in self-defense. When he fired at a guy that had backed up and was literally starting to turn away any claims of legitimate defense pretty much went out the window.
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This.
 
#167
#167
Grand Vol said:
While we don't know all the details, backing away from a person does not constitute a threatening move.

Did you watch the video DTH linked?
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I did not hear any audio.......could the aggressor have been saying that he was "getting my gun" as he backed off?

Still don't know if that justifies the shooting?
 
#168
#168
The spirit of SYG is empowering people to protect themselves in life or death situations. It's not intended to protect people for retaliating and shooting unarmed people who are backing away.
 
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#169
#169
McDad said:
Dad's take:

McGlockton’s father, Michael, said that his son was just standing up for a family he adored.


"Markeis was a good man — he was all about his kids," Michael McGlockton said in an interview with NBC News on Monday. "He wasn’t out there looking for trouble, but he would stand up for his family and that’s exactly what he did. As a man, if you see someone confronting someone that you love, what are you gonna’ do? You’re gonna’ run to their defense. You’re gonna try to protect them."

If the shooter threatened his SO like he seems to have threatened others then McGlockton is in the right, imo.
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This is a tough one for me. On one hand, the white dude sounds like a Charles Bronson wanna-be and seems to have a history of flaunting his gun and acting the tough guy because of it.

On the other hand, though, dad wouldn't be dead if he hadn't have walked up and shoved an old man to the ground.

As Ras inferred, this was the product of two equally stupid forces meeting. The only question is, did the old man's history of apparent terrorism have any bearing on this incident? Should those past actions make current situation illegal if current circumstances were otherwise lawful?

Was it ill-advised to argue with a stranger about handicap parking? Yep. Was it illegal? Nope. Was it illegal to shoot the guy according to FL law? If I'm an old man, shoved blindly to the ground by a larger and younger man, I'd probably feel vulnerable and already attacked. I'm not sure I could remove the idea of reasonable belief of physical harm.

I hate this situation. I do. But dead guy would be alive if he hadn't physically attacked an old man in a parking lot. Everything else aside, that's the simplicity of this.
 
#170
#170
1972 Grad said:
My take is that the dead guy decked the wrong man. Exactly why I no longer flip off or shake my fist at someone that cuts me off in traffic. Too many folks with a hair trigger. Looks like 2 of them met in the parking lot.
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"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein
 
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#171
#171
It's a good law, that reinforces constitutional protections.

Question is simple in theory: Can you prove the one shot was fired not out of fear, but out of anger?
 
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#172
#172
n_huffhines said:
The spirit of SYG is empowering people to protect themselves in life or death situations. It's not intended to protect people for retaliating and shooting unarmed people who are backing away.
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You are correct but I think there's a real problem with a bunch of ignorant people (and, IMO, more than a few that know better but don't care) that believe SYG is something it isn't. Just saying "wasn't me" doesn't magically absolve you from being a suspect and claiming SYG (or any degree of self-defense for that matter) doesn't just make people go "Oh, ok, we're all good I guess.". Lots of (most?) people can't be bothered to follow legal procedure beyond the initial outrage for something and end up looking like perpetual idiots as a result.
 
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