TrumpPutingate III: the beginning of the end

[volinbham]

Who is doing the stretching now? Flynn, by his own admission, lied to an FBI agent (a felony) when asked a question over his contact with Kislyak, who is still highly relevant to Mueller's probe of Russian collusion with the Trump campaign.

Flynn admitted it to stop the harassment of his son and himself. Flynn did not believe he lied nor did the agents he talked to. The lying charge was concocted and used to pressure him. He took the viable out to the situation.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Going to start calling you Stretch Armstrong.

Flynn's conviction has nothing to do with Muellers original mandate. It's like getting pulled over for speeding and the cop finds a joint so he arrests you for possession. The arrest had zilch to do with why he pulled you over in the first place.

Wrong. Contact with Kislyak had everything to do with collusion with Russians. Flynn lied about it.

 

[Vol0725]

Who is doing the stretching now? Flynn, by his own admission, lied to an FBI agent (a felony) when asked a question over his contact with Kislyak, who is still highly relevant to Mueller's probe of Russian collusion with the Trump campaign.

That's still not clear, Comey told Congress FBI agents didn't think Flynn lied. There's evidence that he couldn't recall exactly. So why did he supposedly admit to lying? Did Mueller pressure him with something?

Nonetheless, if he wittingly lied, it was about nothing illegal. Total nothingburger charge, about nothing illegal or improper...just like Papadopoulos, lied about nothing illegal. There's silly reasons people lie to the FBI, even though they are innocent of anything criminal.

 

[hog88]

Wrong. Contact with Kislyak had everything to do with collusion with Russians. Flynn lied about it.

I said the questions were relevant just not the conviction.

 

[volinbham]

Toobin has explained the crimes that could fall under the “collusion” umbrella. There are several.

The Department of Justice Thinks That Collusion Is a Crime | The New Yorker

I'm curious why you believe the Steele Dossier was not collusion between the Clinton campaign and foreign actors from both friendly countries (Steele) and unfriendly (Russia).

Clearly something of value was paid for and received.

The intent was to get dirt on a POTUS candidate.

Information was sourced from Russian government officials and connections.

Is it the laundering through Fusion GPS you believe makes this okay? Is it that Steele is the author (British) rather than direct flow from Russia?

For the life of me I can't understand why this gets a pass

What's your argument?

 

[BowlBrother85]

Going to start calling you Stretch Armstrong.

Flynn's conviction has nothing to do with Muellers original mandate. It's like getting pulled over for speeding and the cop finds a joint so he arrests you for possession. The arrest had zilch to do with why he pulled you over in the first place.

And a million miles off topic and nobody may care but since you brought it up... When I was 5 years old in 1978, my dad bought me a Stretch Armstrong for Christmas. I was only into Star Wars toys at the time and he looked dumb so I never took it out of the box. While cleaning out my dad's basement (he was a hoarder) last month, getting ready to sell his house, I found it. Box looks in mint condition and per a site I found, should go for $2,500 on ebay.

:dance2:

 

[volinbham]

And a million miles off topic and nobody may care but since you brought it up... When I was 5 years old in 1978, my dad bought me a Stretch Armstrong for Christmas. I was only into Star Wars toys at the time and he looked dumb so I never took it out of the box. While cleaning out my dad's basement (he was a hoarder) last month, getting ready to sell his house, I found it. Box looks in mint condition and per a site I found, should go for $2,500 on ebay.

:dance2:

nice

 

[Vol0725]

Toobin has explained the crimes that could fall under the “collusion” umbrella. There are several.

The Department of Justice Thinks That Collusion Is a Crime | The New Yorker

The title said "IS" a crime.

Did he point to a criminal code, statute or legal precedence? I don't see it.

 

[evillawyer]

I'm curious why you believe the Steele Dossier was not collusion between the Clinton campaign and foreign actors from both friendly countries (Steele) and unfriendly (Russia).

Clearly something of value was paid for and received.

The intent was to get dirt on a POTUS candidate.

Information was sourced from Russian government officials and connections.

Is it the laundering through Fusion GPS you believe makes this okay? Is it that Steele is the author (British) rather than direct flow from Russia?

For the life of me I can't understand why this gets a pass

What's your argument?

Wapo fact checked this, but did not focus on whether Steele providing info to fusion gps, who then provided info to Perkins Coie, who then provided info to Clinton, is accepting a contribution from a foreign person. My guess would be that the intervening contractual relationships cleansed it, but I know nothing about election law.

Did Hillary Clinton collude with the Russians to get 'dirt' on Trump to feed it to the FBI? - The Washington Post

Another article: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-10-30/both-campaigns-sought-russian-dirt-clinton-s-way-was-legal

 

[BowlBrother85]

Flynn admitted it to stop the harassment of his son and himself. Flynn did not believe he lied nor did the agents he talked to. The lying charge was concocted and used to pressure him. He took the viable out to the situation.

I don't buy that for a minute for the simple fact that Mike Pence has said that Michael Flynn also lied to him about his contact with Kislyak. In fact, that is why Flynn was fired in the first place as National Security Adviser. At least, that is what Donald Trump told us in February of 2017.

Hey, I will give you a discount on my Stretch Armstrong ... Considering your use of logic here, I'm guessing you're a fan?

 

[volinbham]

Wapo fact checked this, but did not focus on whether Steele providing info to fusion gps, who then provided info to Perkins Coie, who then provided info to Clinton, is accepting a contribution from a foreign person. My guess would be that the intervening contractual relationships cleansed it, but I know nothing about election law.

Did Hillary Clinton collude with the Russians to get 'dirt' on Trump to feed it to the FBI? - The Washington Post

Another article: Both Campaigns Sought Russian Dirt. Clinton's Way Was Legal. - Bloomberg

Instead, you have (a) the campaign hiring (b) a research firm that hired (c) a researcher who spoke (d) to Russian sources. Steele, for his part, has suggested he tried to alert reporters and the FBI because he was appalled by what he had discovered. The closest connection to Clinton is the fact that Steele gave to the FBI material written by Clinton associates, but it’s unclear what the FBI did with that memo.

Clearly once the info was received Team Clinton knew of the origins of the information.

The defense appears to be that they were smart enough to use middle men to pay for dirt from Russia.

While that may pass legal muster it's hard to argue it isn't getting information from the Russians to use in a campaign.

 

[volinbham]

I don't buy that for a minute for the simple fact that Mike Pence has said that Michael Flynn also lied to him about his contact with Kislyak. In fact, that is why Flynn was fired in the first place as National Security Adviser. At least, that is what Donald Trump told us in February of 2017.

Hey, I will give you a discount on my Stretch Armstrong ... Considering your use of logic here, I'm guessing you're a fan?

Comey testified under oath to what you don't buy for a minute.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Comey testified under oath to what you don't buy for a minute.

So, we shouldn't take the Vice President and the President of the United States at their word when they said that Michael Flynn was fired as National Security Adviser because he lied to Pence over his contact with Kislyak? Is that what you're saying?

 

[Sandman 423]

Comey testified under oath to what you don't buy for a minute.

Comey wasn't very good at his job.

 

[volinbham]

So, we shouldn't take the Vice President and the President of the United States at their word when they said that Michael Flynn was fired as National Security Adviser because he lied to Pence over his contact with Kislyak? Is that what you're saying?

I'm not saying that at all. You were asking specifically about his conviction. That specific information he gave to the FBI - the agents didn't believe what he said was lying. Comey testified to that fact.

Here's the thing - you don't know specifically what he said to the FBI and whether or not it was the same as what he said to Pence.

The words for which Flynn was charged are all that matter and the agents to which he supposedly lied did not believe he was lying. FBI higher ups made the determination, brought the charges, went after his son and ultimately got him to plea out.

 

[BowlBrother85]

I'm not saying that at all. You were asking specifically about his conviction. That specific information he gave to the FBI - the agents didn't believe what he said was lying. Comey testified to that fact.

Here's the thing - you don't know specifically what he said to the FBI and whether or not it was the same as what he said to Pence.

The words for which Flynn was charged are all that matter and the agents to which he supposedly lied did not believe he was lying. FBI higher ups made the determination, brought the charges, went after his son and ultimately got him to plea out.

Regardless of what those agents believed at the time, it doesn't make any sense that Michael Flynn was telling them something different than what he was telling Pence. He was telling the feds the truth but lying to Pence? Nope, not buying it.

 

[volinbham]

Regardless of what those agents believed at the time, it doesn't make any sense that Michael Flynn was telling them something different than what he was telling Pence. He was telling the feds the truth but lying to Pence? Nope, not buying it.

Sure it does - he probably told Pence he never met the guy. For the FBI I'm betting it was much more detailed and nuanced.

I'd sure be a lot more careful if I'm talking to the FBI than the boss wouldn't you?

 

[BowlBrother85]

Sure it does - he probably told Pence he never met the guy. For the FBI I'm betting it was much more detailed and nuanced.

I'd sure be a lot more careful if I'm talking to the FBI than the boss wouldn't you?

I would not want the accounts to contradict each other.

 

[volinbham]

I would not want the accounts to contradict each other.

You don't know that they did.

Flynn had already been canned by the time he talked to the FBI so what would have to be concerned about WRT Pence?

 

[volinbham]

As a handy reminder to all and in defense of Flynn

Everybody Lies: FBI Edition | Popehat

in particular - this part

Dumbass, you don't even know if you're lying or not. When an FBI agent is interviewing you, assume that that agent is exquisitely prepared. They probably already have proof about the answer of half the questions they're going to ask you. They have the receipts. They've listened to the tapes. They've read the emails. Recently. You, on the other hand, haven't thought about Oh Yeah That Thing for months or years, and you routinely forget birthdays and names and whether you had a doctor's appointment today and so forth. So, if you go in with "I'll just tell the truth," you're going to start answering questions based on your cold-memory unrefreshed holistic general concept of the subject, like an impressionistic painting by a dim third-grader. Will you say "I really don't remember" or "I would have to look at the emails" or "I'm not sure"? That would be smart. But we've established you're not smart, because you've set out to tell the truth to the FBI. You're dumb. So you're going to answer questions incorrectly, through bad memory. Sometimes you're going to go off on long detours and frolics based on entirely incorrect memories. You're going to be incorrect about things you wouldn't lie about if you remembered them. If you realize you got something wrong or that you may not be remembering right, you're going to get flustered, because it's the FBI, and remember even worse. But the FBI would never prosecute you for a false statement that was the result of a failed memory, right? Oh, my sweet country mouse. If you had talked to a lawyer first, that lawyer would have grilled you mercilessly for hours, helped you search for every potentially relevant document, reviewed every communication, inquired into every scenario, and dragged reliable memory kicking and screaming out the quicksand of your psyche.

 

[BowlBrother85]

As a handy reminder to all and in defense of Flynn

Everybody Lies: FBI Edition | Popehat

in particular - this part

This is in no way a cogent defense of Flynn who knew damn well on January 24th, 2017 when speaking to the FBI that he had a phone call on December 28th, 2016 with the Russian Ambassador Kislyak. He lied to the FBI about it (and pleaded guilty to a felony for it) and he lied to Mike Pence about it (and was fired as National Security Adviser for it). Flynn is now a disgraced, convicted felon and deservedly so.

 

[volinbham]

This is in no way a cogent defense of Flynn who knew damn well on January 24th, 2017 when speaking to the FBI that he had a phone call on December 28th, 2016 with the Russian Ambassador Kislyak. He lied to the FBI about it (and pleaded guilty to a felony for it) and he lied to Mike Pence about it (and was fired as National Security Adviser for it). Flynn is now a disgraced, convicted felon and deservedly so.

I repeat - you don't know what Flynn told the FBI. You are assuming he denied talking with Kislyak.

I can almost guarantee the charge was about some details IN the call rather than whether or not the call happened.

I wouldn't even bother offering a defense if it weren't for the the fact that the agents who interrogated him did not consider his comments as lying.

 

[AM64]

so the plan is to let Trump run out his term and keep this as a political tool?

Yep, our own Inquisition with Mueller as the head honcho. Imagine how it would play if TV could find a way to condense it and make it interesting. For the reality TV tribes you could do anything from roasting at a stake to some ultra chiropractic moves - probably have to pass on waterboarding to avoid offending libs, though.

 

[LouderVol]

So, we shouldn't take the Vice President and the President of the United States at their word when they said that Michael Flynn was fired as National Security Adviser because he lied to Pence over his contact with Kislyak? Is that what you're saying?

is what you are saying is that you trust Trump more than Comey?

spin spin spin. I love political theatre.

 

[LouderVol]

Regardless of what those agents believed at the time, it doesn't make any sense that Michael Flynn was telling them something different than what he was telling Pence. He was telling the feds the truth but lying to Pence? Nope, not buying it.

what? you except him to talk to the cops the same as he talks to his boss? lol