Recruiting Forum Football Talk LIX

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#5,576
#5,576
Great sports day. Huge win for the Golden Eagles and a second Triple Crown winner after a long drought.
 
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#5,579
#5,579
volfanngatorland said:
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He is the only dude that can pull it off lol
 
#5,581
#5,581
HankHill said:
Replace LeBron with solid wing player (you name them if you watch NBA). Does this team make the playoffs?
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In the Eastern Conference? Easily.


We just saw Victor Oladipo lead the Pacers to the 5th seed in the East. And the Pacers have less talent than the Cavs and Oladipo isn't close to a top 10 player in the league.

When will you realize the Eastern Conference has been epically weak for a long time now and has artifically made LeBron James accomplishments look better than they really are.

Just think of it this way. The San Antonio Spurs without Kawhi Leonard and the New Orleans Pelicans without Cousins were able to win 1 game against the Warriors. The Houston Rockets with James Harden and Chris Paul were able to force them to 7 games. And if Chris Paul was healthy for game 7, they probably beat them. This year's Warriors team was not unbeatable. They were actually very vulnerable. And yet they swept the Cavs with ease. If that doesn't tell you the gap between the East and West, I don't know what will.
 
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#5,583
#5,583
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
In the Eastern Conference? Easily.


We just saw Victor Oladipo lead the Pacers to the 5th seed in the East. And the Pacers have less talent than the Cavs and Oladipo isn't close to a top 10 player in the league.

When will you realize the Eastern Conference has been epically weak for a long time now and has artifically made LeBron James accomplishments look better than they really are.

Just think of it this way. The San Antonio Spurs without Kawhi Leonard and the New Orleans Pelicans without Cousins were able to win 1 game against the Warriors. The Houston Rockets with James Harden and Chris Paul were able to force them to 7 games. And if Chris Paul was healthy for game 7, they probably beat them. This year's Warriors team was not unbeatable. They were actually very vulnerable. And yet they swept the Cavs with ease. If that doesn't tell you the gap between the East and West, I don't know what will.
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Excluding Oladipo n bron, pacers have a better roster
 
#5,584
#5,584
BigZiti09 said:
The NFL has the best system. Every team has a chance.

The NBA has half a league, a half a season and a one quarter game for their product.
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No. The difference between the two sports is the best players in the NBA can make a much bigger difference than the best NFL players. In basketball there are only 10 players on the court at any one time compared to 22 players on the field when it comes to football. Also in basketball the best players play both ways while in football you only play either offense or defense. Thus, even the best QBs like Aaron Rodgers can't do anything about the game if their defense is awful.

By the very nature of the sports, basketball will always be more predictable than football because the best players can make a much bigger difference. Also since there is less physicality, there are less injuries, and thus less variability based on the unknowns related to health and availability.
 
#5,585
#5,585
#Vol4Life1991 said:
Excluding Oladipo n bron, pacers have a better roster
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Really? Name the guys on the Pacers who you think are good then? Just cause LeBron makes his teammates worse don't mean they are not more talented and better than the Pacers.

Kevin Love before he joined LeBron was averaging 26ppg and 12rpg. He was a 2-time selection for All-NBA 2nd team. Which essentially means you are a top 10 player in the league since only 10 players can be named 1st or 2nd team All-NBA.

Rodney Hood was averaging 17ppg on the Jazz before he joined LeBron. George Hill was shooting 45% from 3 on the Kings before he joined LeBron. That 3-point shooting percentage fell to 35% playing alongside LeBron. Jeff Green is as good as anyone on the Pacers not named Victor Oladipo. He's a solid role player who can guard several positions. Tristan Thompson is a great offensive rebounder and defender. He's also as good as any role player on the Pacers. Kyle Korver is one of the best 3-point shooters in NBA history.

LeBron had plenty of talent on this Cavs team. He just didn't get the most out of them because his style of play is really only good at racking up individual stats from himself to the detriment of his teammates. Just look at how much Rodney Hood's numbers have plummeted playing next to LeBron. Just look at how George Hill's 3-point % has plummeted. Just look at how much Kevin Love's standing in the NBA has fallen. He's gone from top 10 player in the NBA to afterthought.

Maybe it's time to accept the fact that it's LeBron making his teammates worse rather than the Cavs team lacking talent.
 
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#5,587
#5,587
Chief Vol 13 said:
Hank working y'all old farts again
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I really don't have a dog in this fight. I have said all along that I don't like to compare players from different eras. Having said that, you and Hank have had your tails whipped so hard in this debate that I think you are WNBA-level basketball IQ posters.
 
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#5,588
#5,588
HankHill said:
That whole post is stupid lol. Like one player can guard the other 4 or hit open shots for other people. Why count rinds in other team sports then? What about hockey?

It’s all about who you have a liking towards.i will never argue rings in team sports. Joe Flacco has a superbowl and he’s one of the worst QBs in the nfl.

How different would Kobe’s career be if he stayed in charlotte the whole time? Or if the bulls never made a draft a trade for pippen? What if a player like Tim Duncan goes to the bucks and not the spurs with admiral then the trio of Parker ginobli claw...

There’s amazing players in every sport that never even came close to sniffing a title.
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Difference is those guys made their teammates better. It's now statistically proven that LeBron makes his teammates worse.


Kevin Pelton's weekly mailbag - does LeBron James make his teammates better?

Before joining LeBron, Rodney Hood was averaging 17ppg on the Utah Jazz. Before joining LeBron, George Hill was shooting 45% from 3. Before joining LeBron, Kevin Love was averaging 26 PPG, 12 RPG, and was a 2-time All-NBA 2nd team selection.

After joining LeBron, Rodney Hood couldn't get off the bench. George Hill's 3-point % plummeted to 35%. And Kevin Love is now considered an afterthought.


Jordan and Kobe made players around them better. LeBron makes guys who are already pretty good worse. That is the main difference between them and why LeBron doesn't compare to them.


All LeBron is good at is getting good individual stats to the detriment of his teammates.
 
#5,589
#5,589
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Really? Name the guys on the Pacers who you think are good then? Just cause LeBron makes his teammates worse don't mean they are not more talented and better than the Pacers.

Kevin Love before he joined LeBron was averaging 26ppg and 12rpg. He was a 2-time selection for All-NBA 2nd team. Which essentially means you are a top 10 player in the league since only 10 players can be named 1st or 2nd team All-NBA.

Rodney Hood was averaging 17ppg on the Jazz before he joined LeBron. George Hill was shooting 45% from 3 on the Kings before he joined LeBron. That 3-point shooting percentage fell to 35% playing alongside LeBron. Jeff Green is as good as anyone on the Pacers not named Victor Oladipo. He's a solid role player who can guard several positions. Tristan Thompson is a great offensive rebounder and defender. He's also as good as any role player on the Pacers. Kyle Korver is one of the best 3-point shooters in NBA history.

LeBron had plenty of talent on this Cavs team. He just didn't get the most out of them because his style of play is really only good at racking up individual stats from himself to the detriment of his teammates. Just look at how much Rodney Hood's numbers have plummeted playing next to LeBron. Just look at how George Hill's 3-point % has plummeted. Just look at how much Kevin Love's standing in the NBA has fallen. He's gone from top 10 player in the NBA to afterthought.

Maybe it's time to accept the fact that it's LeBron making his teammates worse rather than the Cavs team lacking talent.
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Collison > hill/Clarkson
Thad young > Jeff green
Myles turner > triston Thompson
Bobanovic < Love
McMillan >>>> Tyron Lue

Rodney hood was a non factor for the Cavs except for one game.

Kevin loves status has not plummeted at all. He was the only option on a god awful twolves team of course he’s gonna get numbers there. Kyries numbers are better with LeBron than without him.

The lakers were better without Clarkson and nance jr. so what’s that say about them?
 
#5,590
#5,590
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Difference is those guys made their teammates better. It's now statistically proven that LeBron makes his teammates worse.


Kevin Pelton's weekly mailbag - does LeBron James make his teammates better?

Before joining LeBron, Rodney Hood was averaging 17ppg on the Utah Jazz. Before joining LeBron, George Hill was shooting 45% from 3. Before joining LeBron, Kevin Love was averaging 26 PPG, 12 RPG, and was a 2-time All-NBA 2nd team selection.

After joining LeBron, Rodney Hood couldn't get off the bench. George Hill's 3-point % plummeted to 35%. And Kevin Love is now considered an afterthought.


Jordan and Kobe made players around them better. LeBron makes guys who are already pretty good worse. That is the main difference between them and why LeBron doesn't compare to them.


All LeBron is good at is getting good individual stats to the detriment of his teammates.
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What players specifically did Kobe and Jordan elevate to levels they never were before them?

Dwight Howard was an elite big man before he came to LA. Rom artest was better in Indiana.

KObe isn’t in the same sentence as Jordan and LeBron and Kobe was my favorite for a long time. A lot of Players despised playing with Kobe. Kobe may not even be a top 10 player of all time. He’s around that 8-15 slot for most people.
 
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#5,591
#5,591
drvenner said:
I really don't have a dog in this fight. I have said all along that I don't like to compare players from different eras. Having said that, you and Hank have had your tails whipped so hard in this debate that I think you are WNBA-level basketball IQ posters.
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It’s hard to argue with people who consider winning a skill in team sports.
 
#5,593
#5,593
And D4H Jeff green hasn’t been good since he left Boston. He couldn’t even average double digits on a garbage magic team last year.
 
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#5,597
#5,597
drvenner said:
This is really your argument? This?
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The whole Jordan LeBron debate is merited on team accomplishments and “winning/killer instinct”.

If you take the names off players and compare individual skill sets LeBron is going to check more boxes than Jordan.

It’s the same for Aaron Rodgers as a QB vs Brady/manning/Montana. He is a better pure passer than anyone who has ever played imo but his accomplishments aren’t even close. Does he not have enough “killer instinct”? Did Charles Barkley or Dan Mariano not have enough to win either?

My stance has never changed. Jordan is more accomplished than LeBron, i think LeBron is the more talented player. Both of them are worlds away greater than any other player to ever lace them up.
 
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