D4H's 2018 NFL Draft Prospect Rankings

#76
#76
I love your attempt at hedging once you realized your screw-up, but Minkah was a strong safety, not a free.

I assume the next step is you arguing that a strong safety is more like a corner or nickel than a safety. I'll preemptively shoot down that nonsense.

LOL. Ok now I'm done even playing with you on this.

Your football knowledge is at zero if you think Minkah Fitzpatrick played strong safety at Alabama or will do so in the NFL. Quick question: If Minkah Fitzpatrick was playing strong safety last year, then what was Ronnie Harrison doing?

You clearly have no clue about ANYTHING. This is as laughable as KBVol not knowing the difference between a 1-technique and 3-technique last year.
 
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#77
#77
One of the best trolls in my recent memory. Do you have a room full of tape like Jon Gruden?
 
#78
#78
LOL. Ok now I'm done even playing with you on this.

Your football knowledge is at zero if you think Minkah Fitzpatrick played strong safety at Alabama or will do so in the NFL. Quick question: If Minkah Fitzpatrick was playing strong safety last year, then what was Ronnie Harrison doing?

You clearly have no clue about ANYTHING. This is as laughable as KBVol not knowing the difference between a 1-technique and 3-technique last year.

Ronnie played free, Chief. He and Eddie Jackson alternated in '16, then was was nothing but a free when Eddie got hurt. Last year he was almost exclusively a free while Minkah played strong/star, rotating with Jones/Brown/Thompson. Bama's scheme frequently utilizes a single-high safety, and Harrison was that safety last year.
 
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#79
#79
2015: Minkah played exclusively in the star position, which in Bama's offense is a hybrid corner/safety position. He never started a single game as an outside corner, and only ever played it during situational packages or garbage time.
2016: He started 8 games at CB, then moved to safety for the final 7 after Eddie Jackson got hurt.
2017: He started all 14 games at safety, and occasionally played the star. He did not play outside at all.

So, in your mind, a guy who started 21 games at safety somehow "rarely played it in college?" So you watch all this "film" and have trouble figuring out which position your prospect is playing?

That's a stinger to the nuts of the "hours of film study" theory
 
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#80
#80
Lotta good questions and points. Here are my responses:

(1) Frank Ragnow tested as the best athlete of all the interior offensive lineman. His combination of numbers from the 40 yard dash, vertical jump, and bench press were freaky for a player his size. His film was also outstanding. Athletic testing isn't always perfect but one position where it seems to correlate more than others is the offensive line.

(2) If you love Saquon Barkley, I don't know how you can't like Mark Walton. They are basically the same player. Mark Walton is just a mini-version of Saquon with some durability concerns. As long as he can stay healthy, I don't see why Mark Walton can't be one of the 10 best RBs in football.

(3) Rashaad Penny tested extremely well at the combine and his college production was outstanding. He just played at San Diego St. so people are sleeping on him. If he played at a major school like Alabama, people would be saying he's a surefire first round pick. I really like his tape. I think he can be a great RB in the NFL. He might not be a Hall of Famer like Curtis Martin but his running style and skill set reminds me a lot of Curtis Martin.

(4) Marcus Davenport is a freakishly talented player. He's taller, longer, and more athletic than Chubb. Its very close between the two players as you can see in the overall rankings, I just like Davenport's upside more. And when guys are close, I'll always take the guy with more upside. I think Chubb makes the earlier impact but 5 years down the road, I can see Davenport making it on 1st team All-Pro ahead Chubb.

(5) The main reason I have Rashaan Evans and Micah Kiser ahead of Roquan Smith is their tape not the measurables. Unlike most, I was not impressed by Roquan Smith's college tape. He didn't do a good job shedding blockers. Most of his tackles came when his lineman kept guys off him and he had a free run at the ball carrier. Rashaan Evans shows much better on tape when it comes to shedding blocks. And I just love Micah Kiser's insticts.

(6) I have both Kahlil McKenzie and Trenton Thompson rated as 3rd round prospects. That means I have them as legit NFL backups with the chance to develop into reliable starters. This is a loaded draft so they won't go that high. And I wouldn't draft them that high because of how much talent is ahead of them. But in an average draft they are easy choices to take in the 3rd round. They have NFL measureables and athleticism. Its all about coaching them up to play up to their potential.

(7) John Kelly played behind a terrible offensive line and for a horrible head coach. Don't fall for the same thing that made so many NFL teams pass on Alvin Kamara until the 3rd round. John Kelly proved how good he was in 2016. Alongside Josh Dobbs and Alvin Kamara, he proved he could be just as productive. Those other RBs you think are better than him just had better lines and coaching staffs that made them look good. John Kelly didn't have that benefit. Just look back to last year and how much high Christian McCaffrey went than Alvin Kamara. McCaffrey in the NFL couldn't even rush for 4.0 YPC while Alvin Kamara led the NFL with 6.1 YPC. That's after averaging only 6.0 YPC at Tennessee. Averaging more YPC in the NFL than you did in college is unheard of. That shoes just how bad Tennessee's offensive line was in 2016. Now imagine how much worse they became in 2017 with no Josh Dobbs threatening teams with the read option? John Kelly will be a star in the NFL. He's the second coming of Priest Holmes.

(8) I have questions about Calvin Ridley's age (will be 24 years old before the end of his rookie season). He's only 6 months younger than Amari Cooper who is headed into his 4th season in the NFL. Its possible he's already maxed out his potential as a player. Calvin Ridley is also only 189 lbs. That's incredibly skinny for a receiver his height. I question his ability to beat press coverage at the line of scrimmage. And finally he tested poorly at the combine in terms of the vertical and broad jump tests. That's not good for a player whose explosiveness was supposed to be a strong selling point. With regard to Christian Kirk, I actually like him a lot better than Calvin Ridley. That's why I rated him as a 2nd round prospect while only gave Ridley a 3rd round grade. I do believe he has a chance to be a really good player in the NFL. He will be a weapon on special teams and in the slot. I just like the guys rated ahead of him better. This is a very underrated WR class. I think a lot of guys who get drafted in Day 2 and Day 3 will turn into stars.

So I am confused. You put little stock in someone's college output but heavy stock in combine numbers? That's hard to explain but I am sure you have a rationale.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Kelly and Roquan. You point to combine results for Ragnow but don't mention that both Kelly and Penny had mediocre to bad combine results. Kelly's pro day was pretty good with good 40 but otherwise underwhelming.

I like Kelly and how hard he runs and catches out of the backfield. But I believe he is a backup in the NFL. Top end speed is mid-level at best and didn't show explosion in the combine drills he participated in. He and Penny both for that matter. Both were weak on the bench too.

Back to Ragnow, I know he is a really good player for the interior line. That wasn't my issue. I just don't see him going top 10 or even top 20. Late first round possibly. Nelson on the other hand will be that rare top 10 guard. Crazy strong and great technique to go with it.

Walton? Can't get there and I have watched many a Miami game, especially since Richt got there (used to like Miami a lot back in the day too). There are also a lot of concerns about Walton's recovery from the ankle injury. His top end speed already wasn't great (and he declined to run the 40 both at the combine and at his pro day) and his shiftiness is good but not great. Notice in his game log breakdown the last two years that he can run it up against the likes of Florida A&M, Bethune Cookman and Toledo but when he faces a decent defense, he gets contained pretty well.
 
#81
#81
Roquan will either be in the middle of the Oakland defense for the next 12 years or be lined up along side Reuben Foster in San Fran. Ridiculous LB duo there.
 
#82
#82
(2) If you love Saquon Barkley, I don't know how you can't like Mark Walton. They are basically the same player. Mark Walton is just a mini-version of Saquon with some durability concerns. As long as he cann stay healthy, I don't see why Mark Walton can't be one of the 10 best RBs in football.

WTH are you talking about?

Barkley ran the 2nd fastest 40 among RBs. Walton ran the 8th slowest. (4.60)

Barkley had the highest vertical. Walton was tied for 2nd lowest. (31.5)

I'm not seeing a broad jump for Barkley but only 3 players did worse than Walton.

I'm not predicting what Walton may or may not do but he damn sure isn't "basically the same player."
 
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#83
#83
WTH are you talking about?

Barkley ran the 2nd fastest 40 among RBs. Walton ran the 8th slowest. (4.60)

Barkley had the highest vertical. Walton was tied for 2nd lowest. (31.5)

I'm not seeing a broad jump for Barkley but only 3 players did worse than Walton.

I'm not predicting what Walton may or may not do but he damn sure isn't "basically the same player."

He sure looked like it against ... TOLEDO:tease2:
 
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#84
#84
WTH are you talking about?

Barkley ran the 2nd fastest 40 among RBs. Walton ran the 8th slowest. (4.60)

Barkley had the highest vertical. Walton was tied for 2nd lowest. (31.5)

I'm not seeing a broad jump for Barkley but only 3 players did worse than Walton.

I'm not predicting what Walton may or may not do but he damn sure isn't "basically the same player."

Facts don’t matter, just D4Hs eyes
 
#85
#85
He sure looked like it against ... TOLEDO:tease2:
In 23 games against anybody worth mentioning Walton:

Broke 5ypc 4 times
Was under 4ypc 16 times
Was 3ypc or less 11 times

So, right at 48% of his games against anybody that remotely mattered he was was no better than 3ypc.
 
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#86
#86
well D4H i had written a long response, but internet dropped. Here's the summary.

Kerryon will be top 5, and not number 9, but it is a deep RB class

I'm not big on Tayven Bryan. I just don't see him panning out in the NFL.

I like Will Hernandez. I believe you have him properly ranked. I just wanted to point out that I like him.

The WR and EDGE class does not excite. I'm sure some of them will do well, but I'm just not excited about any of them. Looking at the list I see guys that need 3+ years before they do anything significant.

you called Leighton Vander Esch months ago, and I'm on board now. I hope Cowboys get him.

Thoughts?
 
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#88
#88
If D4H says Walton is a guy to watch then I’ll keep an eye on him.

If you remember, last year D4H was the only person to have Kamara rated as a perennial all pro future HOF. So far he has been on the money.

Give the kid his props. He obviously has an eye for talent.
 
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#90
#90
Add to that some of the performances against better competition.

But how can you take a guy seriously that has Mark Walton as a top 20 and Roquan Smith so far down due to .. SIZE? A lot of teams aren't looking for large thumping ILBs anymore instead opting for kids with lights out speed and instincts.

He claims Antonio Calloway is a good kid but based on what? His looks? I mean, most chicks were all about Rae Carruth too. If memory serves me, there were issues with Calloway going back to HS at Booker T.

I think you have Trenton Thompson too high at Rd 3 too BTW, at best Rd 5. Ragnow is probably a low first rounder not a top 10 type of OL.

But man, that Mark Walton pick .. Calloway isn't the only one that's high :crazy:

Nobody takes the fool seriously.
 
#91
#91
if d4h says walton is a guy to watch then i’ll keep an eye on him.

If you remember, last year d4h was the only person to have kamara rated as a perennial all pro future hof. So far he has been on the money.

Give the kid his props. He obviously has an eye for talent.

😂😂😂. Nice parody post, well done.
 
#92
#92
Seriously about the only one that makes sense that isn't what the world is saying is having Arden Key that high. Off field issues as well, but a second round pick for a premium position is about right with the baggage but the guy is lights out off the ball.
. .
There’s something about LSU kids they have a lower bust rate then most kind of like dade/broward/palm beach kids

Sure they have a few big name guys everybody knows about but it’s guys like Danielle Hunter, Kwon Alexander, Debo Jones, Trai Turner etc who have quietly become some of the best in the league at they’re positions
 
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#93
#93
WTH are you talking about?

Barkley ran the 2nd fastest 40 among RBs. Walton ran the 8th slowest. (4.60)

Barkley had the highest vertical. Walton was tied for 2nd lowest. (31.5)

I'm not seeing a broad jump for Barkley but only 3 players did worse than Walton.

I'm not predicting what Walton may or may not do but he damn sure isn't "basically the same player."

You do know Mark Walton was coming back from an ankle injury and was not fully healthy at the combine? Poor decision on his part cause those poor numbers will cause him to fall.

I compared him to Saquon Barkley based on the film not the combine. When I watched Mark Walton play I could help but think of Saquon Barkley. He's just smaller and not as explosive in terms of top end speed. But when it comes to ability and make you miss ability, they're very similar.
 
#94
#94
So I am confused. You put little stock in someone's college output but heavy stock in combine numbers? That's hard to explain but I am sure you have a rationale.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Kelly and Roquan. You point to combine results for Ragnow but don't mention that both Kelly and Penny had mediocre to bad combine results. Kelly's pro day was pretty good with good 40 but otherwise underwhelming.

I like Kelly and how hard he runs and catches out of the backfield. But I believe he is a backup in the NFL. Top end speed is mid-level at best and didn't show explosion in the combine drills he participated in. He and Penny both for that matter. Both were weak on the bench too.

Back to Ragnow, I know he is a really good player for the interior line. That wasn't my issue. I just don't see him going top 10 or even top 20. Late first round possibly. Nelson on the other hand will be that rare top 10 guard. Crazy strong and great technique to go with it.

Walton? Can't get there and I have watched many a Miami game, especially since Richt got there (used to like Miami a lot back in the day too). There are also a lot of concerns about Walton's recovery from the ankle injury. His top end speed already wasn't great (and he declined to run the 40 both at the combine and at his pro day) and his shiftiness is good but not great. Notice in his game log breakdown the last two years that he can run it up against the likes of Florida A&M, Bethune Cookman and Toledo but when he faces a decent defense, he gets contained pretty well.

I take the athletic testing more seriously for some positions more than others based on historical precedent. For example, RBs with poor combine numbers have done great things in the NFL because that is a very instinctive position. While offensive and defensive lineman's combine testing has correlated better with NFL success than most other positions. So I take the combine numbers more seriously for those positions.

But none of these rules are hard lines. As you can see with Arden Key who tested poorly as an athlete but who I still like because of his outstanding film as a sophomore.
 
#95
#95
You do know Mark Walton was coming back from an ankle injury and was not fully healthy at the combine? Poor decision on his part cause those poor numbers will cause him to fall.

I compared him to Saquon Barkley based on the film not the combine. When I watched Mark Walton play I could help but think of Saquon Barkley. He's just smaller and not as explosive in terms of top end speed. But when it comes to ability and make you miss ability, they're very similar.

Let me make this very simple; Barkley is an upper echelon athlete at the RB position and Walton absolutely is not. I don't give two $^*@# about how you think he "looks" that difference absolutely prevents any possible way for "basically the same player." to be correctly applied.

And to clarify I'm not even saying Walton can't succeed but he damn sure isn't a smaller Barkley clone.
 
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#97
#97
If Callaway could actually learn from his mistakes and didn’t get involved in the credit card **** he would absolutely be the top WR in this class

He has it all talent wise

Hands
Speed
Top notch route running
Fantastic ability to make guys miss after the catch
Can be one of the best kick/punt returners in the league

Plus at UF at least he consistently came thru with big plays when they were needed most whether it was long td catch, long catch to get to red zone to set up TD, or returning kicks punts when the team was desperate for some kind of momentum kid just got that dog in him where he wants the ball in the biggest moments

He just knows he can beat the man across from him


Don’t get me wrong Sutton and Ridley are both very good but I don’t think they on AC level

Watch these highlights you will see the boy is electric def has the talent to be one of 5-7 best WR in league

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Awo3B31s0
 
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#99
#99
Hope you’re right D4H since my giants took Barkley

He’s not right about Barkley....Saquon isn’t the best running back in the history of organized football. But as everybody else on God’s green earth who follows college football knows, he’s an immensely talented, versatile player who’s gonna be a very good pro barring injury.
 
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He’s not right about Barkley....Saquon isn’t the best running back in the history of organized football. But as everybody else on God’s green earth who follows college football knows, he’s an immensely talented, versatile player who’s gonna be a very good pro barring injury.

I definitely don’t think he will be the GOAT. Obviously I hope he is
 
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