Mueller: Trump not the target of criminal investigation

#51
#51
Vol0725 said:
Whatever ...forget the Dershowitz rant

Look at the secret memo date.
It’s one week ‘after’ the Mueller knock down the door raid on Manafort and alledged manhandling of his wife.

It was a CYA, period.

It appears...Mueller and Rosenstein broke the law, fact...and all this would never have come to light if Manaforts lawyers hadn’t gotten the subpoenas issued.
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I'm not getting this angle. I've posted the original order multiple times, so won't bother doing so again, and Mueller was given significant latitude (too much, I think) right out of the gate. This memo from Rosenstein wasn't needed in order for him to pursue Manafort on the specified charges. The memo was likely just supportive from the DoJ. I think folks are making too much out of it.
 
#52
#52
I think Trump is being played here. Was watching Fox last night. Great point was made about Cobb urging Trump to testify for Mueller and that this assurance is likely to butter him up further. He's an idiot, if he testifies. He's so prone to lying that it would be easy to trap him. Many of the charges filed already have involved lying to investigators.
 
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#53
#53
OuterBanksVol said:
This is interesting news. Guess I'll take it purely at face value. Congrats, Trump fans, nothing to worry about anymore. *cough*

Given the current lack of sufficient evidence to charge Trump with a crime, we can all agree he's got the green light to be interviewed by Mueller to complete the investigation, right?
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Smokescreen! Soon!

Sounds familiar
 
#54
#54
Vol_Doc said:
I'm not getting this angle. I've posted the original order multiple times, so won't bother doing so again, and Mueller was given significant latitude (too much, I think) right out of the gate. This memo from Rosenstein wasn't needed in order for him to pursue Manafort on the specified charges. The memo was likely just supportive from the DoJ. I think folks are making too much out of it.
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Has to be more than just a memo of support, otherwise why not make it public when he sent it? It looks like a CYA memo to me.
 
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#55
#55
Vol_Doc said:
I think Trump is being played here. Was watching Fox last night. Great point was made about Cobb urging Trump to testify for Mueller and that this assurance is likely to butter him up further. He's an idiot, if he testifies. He's so prone to lying that it would be easy to trap him. Many of the charges filed already have involved lying to investigators.
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If he talks to Muller’s team in any capacity he’s an idiot and his lawyers should be disbarred. Muller isn’t to be trusted or fair.
 
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#58
#58
Vol_Doc said:
I think Trump is being played here. Was watching Fox last night. Great point was made about Cobb urging Trump to testify for Mueller and that this assurance is likely to butter him up further. He's an idiot, if he testifies. He's so prone to lying that it would be easy to trap him. Many of the charges filed already have involved lying to investigators.
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Mueller can send Trump questions to answer, just like Congress has with folks on other matters.
 
#59
#59
hog88 said:
No, accepting immunity would be essentially an admission.
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No, it's not an admission it just gives Trump free range to testify without concern of Mueller trying to make some trumped up criminal charge. Generally, speaking a grant of immunity is not accepted, it is offered/granted and that offer removes the ability of a witness to take the 5th on the stand. This would be in a Court setting, since I don't deal with criminals I don't know if there are differences in this type of setting.

However, it would be interesting if he refused to testify despite being immune from prosecution. My gut tells me that the possibility of impeachment might keep Trump out of the witness chair.
 
#60
#60
Vol0725 said:
Mueller can send Trump questions to answer, just like Congress has with folks on other matters.
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I wouldn’t even do that if I were Trump. Answering any questions from Muller’s team legitimizes them.
 
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#62
#62
ClearwaterVol said:
No, it's not an admission it just gives Trump free range to testify without concern of Mueller trying to make some trumped up criminal charge. Generally, speaking a grant of immunity is not accepted, it is offered/granted and that offer removes the ability of a witness to take the 5th on the stand. This would be in a Court setting, since I don't deal with criminals I don't know if there are differences in this type of setting.

However, it would be interesting if he refused to testify despite being immune from prosecution. My gut tells me that the possibility of impeachment might keep Trump out of the witness chair.
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You realize you just said an offer of immunity from Muller is in reality a trap and act of desperation by Muller?
 
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#63
#63
hog88 said:
I wouldn’t even do that if I were Trump. Answering any questions from Muller’s team legitimizes them.
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Mueller wants answers from Trump. He will get them one way or another. You would prefer Trump to be subpoenaed before the grand jury if he refuses to cooperate? This would likely end up in a legal challenge destined for the supreme court.

If he's done nothing wrong as he claims, what's the problem? Mueller can't MAKE HIM lie now can he? Seems to me he'd only lie if he had something to hide, right? Am I missing something?
 
#64
#64
OuterBanksVol said:
Mueller wants answers from Trump. He will get them one way or another. You would prefer Trump to be subpoenaed before the grand jury if he refuses to cooperate? This would likely end up in a legal challenge destined for the supreme court.

If he's done nothing wrong as he claims, what's the problem? Mueller can't MAKE HIM lie now can he? Seems to me he'd only lie if he had something to hide, right? Am I missing something?
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There is a reason Muller hasn’t subpoenaed Trump, he knows it wouldn’t hold up to scrutiny. Muller would have to detail his reasoning and he doesn’t want anything to do with that.
 
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#67
#67
OuterBanksVol said:
This is interesting news. Guess I'll take it purely at face value. Congrats, Trump fans, nothing to worry about anymore. *cough*

Given the current lack of sufficient evidence to charge Trump with a crime, we can all agree he's got the green light to be interviewed by Mueller to complete the investigation, right?
Click to expand...

you ready to admit if it comes down to that this was all a witch hunt. you needed the investigation for him to be guilty of something.
 
#68
#68
ClearwaterVol said:
No, it's not an admission it just gives Trump free range to testify without concern of Mueller trying to make some trumped up criminal charge. Generally, speaking a grant of immunity is not accepted, it is offered/granted and that offer removes the ability of a witness to take the 5th on the stand. This would be in a Court setting, since I don't deal with criminals I don't know if there are differences in this type of setting.

However, it would be interesting if he refused to testify despite being immune from prosecution. My gut tells me that the possibility of impeachment might keep Trump out of the witness chair.
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what does Trump possibly get?

He isn't going to clear his name. The same 36% on the other side will still be NeverTrumpers. and if the questions have nothing to do with Trump what is he even testifying on that would be relevant?
He probably isn't going to clear any of his "buds". not that he would actually care.
If he lies he gives the witch hunt what they want.

what does he possibly gain. If Mueller offers immunity it means he has nothing, its an empty gift in pretty paper. Trump might be dumb enough to like the packaging but hopefully the lawyers can point out what its really worth. Mueller doesn't give up his chief target if he has anything.
 
#69
#69
LouderVol said:
you ready to admit if it comes down to that this was all a witch hunt. you needed the investigation for him to be guilty of something.
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Lol he’s Baghdad Bob on this Russia Collusion crap. He cannot admit it even if Mueller were to state on national television “I’ve got nothing.”
 
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#70
#70
an offer of immunity to Trump is a fold by Mueller. if it happens. not sure why thats come up.
 
#71
#71
LouderVol said:
an offer of immunity to Trump is a fold by Mueller. if it happens. not sure why thats come up.
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If he took it there would be a cloud hanging over him that couldn’t be removed. Hopefully Mueller offers it. And hopefully Trump laughs maniacally as he walks away.
 
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#72
#72
Vol_Doc said:
I'm not getting this angle. I've posted the original order multiple times, so won't bother doing so again, and Mueller was given significant latitude (too much, I think) right out of the gate. This memo from Rosenstein wasn't needed in order for him to pursue Manafort on the specified charges. The memo was likely just supportive from the DoJ. I think folks are making too much out of it.
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I agree, that's likely true that it blown outta proportion.

Thing is, timing is odd - authorization was given after the Manafort raid, and a mere few weeks after the IG uncovered the Strzok/Page texts, which alerted him that there was something wrong with the Mueller team, and got them kicked off and demoted.

Anyway, here's a respectable legal opinion:

Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein is to be commended for attempting to rectify the deficiencies in his original special-counsel appointment order by issuing a memo that amplifies Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s jurisdiction to conduct criminal investigations. Rosenstein’s explanation for the timing of the memo (ten weeks after the appointment order) is not very convincing, and the extensively redacted form in which it has been released means the memo raises more questions than it answers. Suffice it to say, we remain uninformed regarding the government’s basis for alleging that “collusion” with Russia resulted in potential crimes warranting investigation; and we still do not know if the Justice Department alleges that President Trump is a criminal suspect — and, if so, in what crime.


Russia Investigation: Rosenstein Memo Details Mueller Investigation’s Limits | National Review
 
#74
#74
Remember all along Trump has been lamenting this should have been kept within DOJ and he was right. So Sessions appoints Rosenstein and what does he do? Sends it outside DOJ. The same Rosenstein that signed the FISA warrants. Wonder if he was signallling since he knows he’s likely to be on a witness stand at some point over this.

Well Huber is still within the DOJ and reports to Sessions. So let’s see what Huber comes up with in regard to the email server, the investigation there if, the FISC abuse, and the individuals that committed that abuse... like maybe Rosenstein?
 
#75
#75
OuterBanksVol said:
Mueller wants answers from Trump. He will get them one way or another. You would prefer Trump to be subpoenaed before the grand jury if he refuses to cooperate? This would likely end up in a legal challenge destined for the supreme court.

If he's done nothing wrong as he claims, what's the problem? Mueller can't MAKE HIM lie now can he? Seems to me he'd only lie if he had something to hide, right? Am I missing something?
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Mueller doesn't want answers, hell none of you far left wack jobs want answers all you want is the cloud to hang over the Presidency.
 
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