Recruiting Forum Football Talk LVII

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#2,251
#2,251
Vols4us said:
Some of you are just totally missing the system change altogether. There is no way to predict future results from the results of a failed system brought from CMU. Pointless exercise. The only question is whether this staff will have 45+ guys that will be developed to do what they need them to do. The players and even the ex-players know what is happening is the right thing to win. They saw enough of the losing way to do things.
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Good post
 
#2,252
#2,252
i2amavol said:
We will have a lot better idea after a game or two. Right now it is all guess work (way more than usual). If our OL is garbage, the rest of the team may not matter that much. However, I have a feeling they will find a way to put something together that is decent.
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If (big if) Smith and Hall both actually come back (as Pruitt has claimed/hinted they will), then we may actually have a decent starting 5 up front. Not great by any means, but not as bad as 2016 and 2017. Edit: of course depth will still be a big concern there.

I personally think the defensive staff will scrape together a decent unit. Probably not good enough to slow down teams like Bama, UGA, or Auburn (maybe WVU). But good enough to keep the rest of the offenses we face from exploding.

Question will be if the offense can do enough to get them off the field.
 
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#2,253
#2,253
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Where is this great bowling talent you speak of? The OL is total garbage without Smith, and the DL is just about as bad. Lb depth sucks, not that the best Lbs we have very good to start either, on top of that the DBs suck outside of Warrior, the WRs are not very good, and the QBs couldn't get it to them much even if they were all NFL talent, finally RB is Chandler and a cord of meh unless Banks really shows out...convince me where this talent is, and do not use the garbage ratings they got out of HS.
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Sounds like you can't be convinced of any other opinion than your own.

We have objectively more talent than Mizzou and Kentucky and they both went bowling last year. I'd be willing to bet our staff knows football better than Odom/Dooley at Mizzou and Stoops at Kentucky.
 
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#2,254
#2,254
Vols4us said:
Some of you are just totally missing the system change altogether. There is no way to predict future results from the results of a failed system brought from CMU. Pointless exercise. The only question is whether this staff will have 45+ guys that will be developed to do what they need them to do. The players and even the ex-players know what is happening is the right thing to win. They saw enough of the losing way to do things.
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Exactly. I've said it before and I'll probably say it again. The team quit on the last coaches.

It sucks to have to defend that, but let's not beat around the bush. The players don't have that option with this coaching staff. They're gonna be pushed and if they don't like it, they're gonna be shown the door.

New staff isn't going to bow to the wills of a pack of young adults who collapsed to a 4-8 record last year. They're gonna shape them up or ship them out. We're only 3 practices in right now, we'll see who leaves over the coming weeks and months.

But there's not going to be 2017 levels of dysfunction and halfheartedness under a more disciplined, organized, and straight-shooting CJP staff, no way.
 
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#2,256
#2,256
BruinVol said:
I don't follow. You said the issue was with them making the hires. As long as Pruitt is our coach and one they didn't make that hire so I don't see how they are an issue until we need a new coach.
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Goes deeper than that. Focus hasn’t been winning for like 15 years. Too many people interested in self preservation and personal agendas.
 
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#2,257
#2,257
ChismsHeadband said:
Exactly. I've said it before and I'll probably say it again. The team quit on the last coaches.

It sucks to have to defend that, but let's not beat around the bush. The players don't have that option with this coaching staff. They're gonna be pushed and if they don't like it, they're gonna be shown the door.

New staff isn't going to bow to the wills of a pack of young adults who collapsed to a 4-8 record last year. They're gonna shape them up or ship them out. We're only 3 practices in right now, we'll see who leaves over the coming weeks and months.

But there's not going to be 2017 levels of dysfunction and halfheartedness under a more disciplined, organized, and straight-shooting CJP staff, no way.
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:good!:
 
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#2,258
#2,258
BigZiti09 said:
Goes deeper than that. Focus hasn’t been winning for like 15 years. Too many people interested in self preservation and personal agendas.
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Yep - would love to have access to even the personnel files of the UTAD. Bet there are lot of interesting "connections" that could be uncovered. The problem is systemic and there are common denominators beyond even the big guns.

So incompetent and self serving. FOCUS is going to make it even worse.
 
#2,262
#2,262
ChismsHeadband said:
Exactly. I've said it before and I'll probably say it again. The team quit on the last coaches.

It sucks to have to defend that, but let's not beat around the bush. The players don't have that option with this coaching staff. They're gonna be pushed and if they don't like it, they're gonna be shown the door.

New staff isn't going to bow to the wills of a pack of young adults who collapsed to a 4-8 record last year. They're gonna shape them up or ship them out. We're only 3 practices in right now, we'll see who leaves over the coming weeks and months.

But there's not going to be 2017 levels of dysfunction and halfheartedness under a more disciplined, organized, and straight-shooting CJP staff, no way.
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This team didnt quit man. They never heard the gun go off. They were doomed from start to finish with GOD AWFUL coaching. Our injuries were catastrophic, our vaunted recruiting had built a roster full of 3, 4, and 5 stars with no experience. When dobbs left, we had 0 hours at QB. Thaaanks Butch.
 
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#2,263
#2,263
Going along with the discussion, I see 11 blue chips on our offensive roster this year and 23 blue chips on our defensive roster. I'm throwing out what they have done or not done since they got here and am waiting to see what they will do or not do with the change in staff.

I posted earlier that CFN pegged us to be #39 in the FBS rankings this year. ESPN's pre-spring FPI I think has us around #52 and Bill Connelly's S&P+ projections has us at #79, dead last in the SEC. I suspect Phil Steele will eventually come out with some similarly disappointing projection. Many of if not most of these projections are heavily weighted towards returning production. Additionally, recruiting and coaching stability play a factor. If you understand how the projections are created then it's difficult to argue with the math. One can argue that math doesn't matter and sometimes you would be right but not often. Most of the time, maybe 70+% of the time, you'd be wrong.

I don't want to change anyone's mind about how this season will play out. I want to be optimistic and think we could win as many as 9 games. Realistically, I think we have 3 in the bag and if we can win one of WVa & FL then I'd think we can win one of USCe and Mizzou. I can't imagine we'd lose to Ky or VD. So I think 6 or 7 is possible but bottom line I don't really know enough at this point to even think we'll go bowling. I think after Florida week we'll probably know how its likely to shake out and until then you're guess is as good or as bad as mine. jmo.

What I'm looking for:

Can we find 2 QBs that can effectively run the new offense?

Can we find 7 or 8 guys out of our 12 or so to man a decent offensive line?

Can Jennings and Taylor help Callaway at WR?

Is Wood-Anderson going to be a star for us at TE?

Can Banks help Ty move the chains?

I'm not too worried about safeties, at least not right now.

Do we even have one decent CB on the roster?

I'm uneasy about the front 3 on defense and the ILB/OLB groups are still getting sorted out.

With everything else that we've got to work on in an extremely limited number of practices will we see a major drop off in special teams performance?

Is Peterson capable of earning a starting role in fall camp? How about Carvin? Taylor? Wood-Anderson?

Will either Emerson, Lawless, or Gooden be able to contribute this year enough to make a difference?

Will Jahmir be capable physically to compete for spot on the OL? Will he have enough time to learn a position in the limited time of fall practice?

If we had enough returning production the projections for how this season will play out would be much higher but we don't. As far as math is concerned we're mostly starting from scratch and a lot of people who watched us play last year even though we've changed staffs they still agree with the math. Odds are in their favor to be right. I'm hoping they're wrong and that we somehow get to slide in that small window where the math says we could possibly be a surprise team this year.

My impression is that if we can't do better at WR than we did last year we probably won't do better at QB. Our guys can probably do alright against ETSU, Charlotte, and maybe even UTEP but I didn't think we had an SEC receiving corp. That is my biggest concern on offense.

On defense my biggest concern is CB. I don't think we have any. NONE. NADA. Not a single SEC CB on the roster. I'm hoping we magically discover that we can grow them in just a matter of a few short weeks.

So with that, I'm saying 3-9 wins, probably 6 or 7. I gotta have some faith. :)
 
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#2,264
#2,264
ChattaTNVol said:
I don't want to change anyone's mind about how this season will play out. I want to be optimistic and think we could win as many as 9 games. Realistically, I think we have 3 in the bag and if we can win one of WVa & FL then I'd think we can win one of USCe and Mizzou. I can't imagine we'd lose to Ky or VD. So I think 6 or 7 is possible but bottom line I don't really know enough at this point to even think we'll go bowling. I think after Florida week we'll probably know how its likely to shake out and until then you're guess is as good or as bad as mine. jmo.

So with that, I'm saying 3-9 wins, probably 6 or 7. I gotta have some faith. :)
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That's basically what I'm thinking. I see our games falling into 3 categories.

C1. ETSU, UTEP, Charlotte, UK, and Vandy are should win games.

C2. WVU, USCE, UF, and Mizzou (listed in order of difficulty, IMO) are games I'd basically call toss ups. All of those teams will likely have better seasons than us, but none of them are so much better that those matchups will be unwinnable by any means(especially with UF and Mizzou being games we'll play at home after two previous home games).

C3. UGA, Auburn, and Bama, are probable losses (I could see Auburn struggling a bit in 2019 if they can't keep Stidham healthy though). I'm tempted to put WVU and USCe (especially since USCe is a road game we play the week after Bama) in this category, but I just can't compare either of those teams to UGA or Bama talent wise.


The way I see it, Pruitt just has to win the category one games and find a way to win one of the category 2 games for 2018 to be a success. If he can't do that, then I highly doubt he'll ever find much success as a HC here.

If he manages to win the C1 games and 2 or more C2 games, we'll know we've got a very promising up and comer as our coach.

If he makes a bowl and manages to steal a C3 game somehow (extremely unlikely, IMO, unless we catch Auburn at a time when they're kind of banged up and we come out of the bye week with fresh legs), then Bruin's crazy conspiracy theory about Pruitt angling to take over for Saban and leave us with a broken foundation will start to look only half crazy.
 
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#2,265
#2,265
Darth_Shiveman said:
To be fair, it's hard to tell what exactly we have at a lot of positions because of how toxic the situation in our program has been for the last 2 years or so.

Declaring the whole team (minus 3 or 4 guys) to suck and for that to be the end of it is pretty short sighted and closed minded. We've seen a lot of guys on the team flash at times or show that, at the least, there are some things that they can do well.


I don't expect Pruitt and this staff to turn this roster into iron men and maximize everyone's potential in one offseason, but assuming that none of them can or will be any better than what they showed in 2017 is equally unrealistic.
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Well I hope to goodness you're right and I'm not, but that didn't convince me.
 
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#2,266
#2,266
ChismsHeadband said:
Sounds like you can't be convinced of any other opinion than your own.

We have objectively more talent than Mizzou and Kentucky and they both went bowling last year. I'd be willing to bet our staff knows football better than Odom/Dooley at Mizzou and Stoops at Kentucky.
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Hope you're right, I'm sure not happy about how I feel, and I'm just being honest about what I see. I have 12 games of evidence to support the conclusion I have come to. I think even with great coaching the best this bunch is going to be able to win is 6-6 and a minor bowl.
 
#2,267
#2,267
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Well I hope to goodness you're right and I'm not, but that didn't convince me.
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I think most of us here know better than to think we can convince you of something when you've already made your mind up about it :)




I think even with great coaching the best this bunch is going to be able to win is 6-6 and a minor bowl.
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I don't think anybody here is arguing this team has much more in them than 6 or 7 wins.


One of the things I keep thinking back to is the 2013 season. That team had less talent across the board (minus OL and probably CB as well), an inferior coaching staff, a tougher schedule (had 5 opponents who won 11 games or more) and was still two Pig Howard mistakes away from 7-5. Hell, even with all the problems the team had in 2017 they were still two plays away from 6-6, despite being the worst team in school history.


Ulysees E. McGill said:
Hope you're right, I'm sure not happy about how I feel, and I'm just being honest about what I see. I have 12 games of evidence to support the conclusion I have come to.
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Lamarck had troves of fossil and biological evidence to support his conclusions about inheritance of acquired characteristics. But he was lacking a few vital pieces of info and looking at things the wrong way, so ultimately he was wrong.




I think that, as fans, we're lacking some vital information about a lot of players on our roster. There's really no way for us to quantify how much their poor performance in 2017 was due to lack of ability and how much was due to poor motivation, poor coaching, poor schemes, or general staff dysfunction.




We'll see in a few months whether many of our struggles in 2017 were due to a toxic situation or whether it was just a matter of everyone on our roster sucking. I'm not making up my mind either way until we've seen what Pruitt gets out of them in 2018.
 
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#2,268
#2,268
Slow night at work and watching Vols videos on youtube.

I'm sure all of you have already seen this, but it's hard not to watch and wonder how good this kid can be in a real offense. Seriously looking forward to his performance this year.

Marquez Callaway 2017 Highlights ||"m.A.A.d City"|| - YouTube


Edit: the good news is, if he blows up like he potentially can, and Jennings keeps his nose clean, it'll be a good look for us, recruiting wise, to have two receivers drafted.
 
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#2,269
#2,269
ChismsHeadband said:
Exactly. I've said it before and I'll probably say it again. The team quit on the last coaches.

It sucks to have to defend that, but let's not beat around the bush. The players don't have that option with this coaching staff. They're gonna be pushed and if they don't like it, they're gonna be shown the door.

New staff isn't going to bow to the wills of a pack of young adults who collapsed to a 4-8 record last year. They're gonna shape them up or ship them out. We're only 3 practices in right now, we'll see who leaves over the coming weeks and months.

But there's not going to be 2017 levels of dysfunction and halfheartedness under a more disciplined, organized, and straight-shooting CJP staff, no way.
Click to expand...

I believe we will see a drastically improved team. If Pruitt and company get the team believing katy bar the door.
 
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#2,270
#2,270
Darth_Shiveman said:
That's basically what I'm thinking. I see our games falling into 3 categories.

C1. ETSU, UTEP, Charlotte, UK, and Vandy are should win games.

C2. WVU, USCE, UF, and Mizzou (listed in order of difficulty, IMO) are games I'd basically call toss ups. All of those teams will likely have better seasons than us, but none of them are so much better that those matchups will be unwinnable by any means(especially with UF and Mizzou being games we'll play at home after two previous home games).

C3. UGA, Auburn, and Bama, are probable losses (I could see Auburn struggling a bit in 2019 if they can't keep Stidham healthy though). I'm tempted to put WVU and USCe (especially since USCe is a road game we play the week after Bama) in this category, but I just can't compare either of those teams to UGA or Bama talent wise.


The way I see it, Pruitt just has to win the category one games and find a way to win one of the category 2 games for 2018 to be a success. If he can't do that, then I highly doubt he'll ever find much success as a HC here.

If he manages to win the C1 games and 2 or more C2 games, we'll know we've got a very promising up and comer as our coach.

If he makes a bowl and manages to steal a C3 game somehow (extremely unlikely, IMO, unless we catch Auburn at a time when they're kind of banged up and we come out of the bye week with fresh legs), then Bruin's crazy conspiracy theory about Pruitt angling to take over for Saban and leave us with a broken foundation will start to look only half crazy.
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Good post. I am also glad you classify category 3 as probable losses. I don't think any of us expect to win any of that category of games, but it is nice to see someone not putting it down as an automatic loss.
 
#2,273
#2,273
Bassmaster_Vol said:
[twitter]977979190262861824[/twitter]

[twitter]977994066330865664[/twitter]

[twitter]977999280806989824[/twitter]

[twitter]978000825082699777[/twitter]

I hope this focus bill does not pass.
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No idea who this Celina Summers is but she was on Basilio on Monday.

[twitter]978607896748613633[/twitter]
 
#2,274
#2,274
Darth_Shiveman said:
That's basically what I'm thinking. I see our games falling into 3 categories.

C1. ETSU, UTEP, Charlotte, UK, and Vandy are should win games.

C2. WVU, USCE, UF, and Mizzou (listed in order of difficulty, IMO) are games I'd basically call toss ups. All of those teams will likely have better seasons than us, but none of them are so much better that those matchups will be unwinnable by any means(especially with UF and Mizzou being games we'll play at home after two previous home games).

C3. UGA, Auburn, and Bama, are probable losses (I could see Auburn struggling a bit in 2019 if they can't keep Stidham healthy though). I'm tempted to put WVU and USCe (especially since USCe is a road game we play the week after Bama) in this category, but I just can't compare either of those teams to UGA or Bama talent wise.


The way I see it, Pruitt just has to win the category one games and find a way to win one of the category 2 games for 2018 to be a success. If he can't do that, then I highly doubt he'll ever find much success as a HC here.

If he manages to win the C1 games and 2 or more C2 games, we'll know we've got a very promising up and comer as our coach.

If he makes a bowl and manages to steal a C3 game somehow (extremely unlikely, IMO, unless we catch Auburn at a time when they're kind of banged up and we come out of the bye week with fresh legs), then Bruin's crazy conspiracy theory about Pruitt angling to take over for Saban and leave us with a broken foundation will start to look only half crazy.
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There’s no way the season is a success if we just win one C2 game in my opinion. It’s not a failure, but it’s certainly not a success. It’s essentially Tennessee purgatory.
 
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