Abortion Rights

#728
#728
NorthDallas40 said:
So take a look at the next post I made after that. If consciousness is a requirement then the loss of consciousness loses “person” status? And if your no longer a person you have no rights or protections under the law?
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People dont taste good.
 
#730
#730
NorthDallas40 said:
So take a look at the next post I made after that. If consciousness is a requirement then the loss of consciousness loses “person” status? And if your no longer a person you have no rights or protections under the law?
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Under the law? Depends on the legal statutes.

Further, did I say consciousness? I thought I said capacity for abstract rational thought and sentiment. That, I think, is the essence of personhood and what makes persons special.
 
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#731
#731
therealUT said:
Under the law? Depends on the legal statutes.

Further, did I say consciousness? I thought I said capacity for abstract rational thought and sentiment. That, I think, is the essence of personhood and what makes persons special.
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Ok fair enough I was equating that to consciousness. I didn’t mean “awake” I meant reasoning.

Thus if we agree on that basis then you think a person can lose “person status”?

Listen I have no agenda I’m not trying to trap you. This just popped into my head reading this and I’m seeing where it goes. I’ve never really considered an individual could lose “person” or “human” status.
 
#734
#734
therealUT said:
Under the law? Depends on the legal statutes.

Further, did I say consciousness? I thought I said capacity for abstract rational thought and sentiment. That, I think, is the essence of personhood and what makes persons special.
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Lol. I imagine Trut interviewing babies and determining whether that have rational thought and sentiment

Btw, you said earlier it was arbitrary to suggest that humans are superior to other animals. Is it not arbitrary to require that “personhood” require “abstract rational thought and sentiment”?
 
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#735
#735
NorthDallas40 said:
Ok fair enough I was equating that to consciousness. I didn’t mean “awake” I meant reasoning.

Thus if we agree on that basis then you think a person can lose “person status”?

Listen I have no agenda I’m not trying to trap you. This just popped into my head reading this and I’m seeing where it goes. I’ve never really considered an individual could lose “person” or “human” status.
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Yes, I think it is possible for someone to lose personhood. In fact, I think most who suffer from advanced forms of alzheimers and dementia have lost their personhood.
 
#736
#736
therealUT said:
Yes, I think it is possible for someone to lose personhood. In fact, I think most who suffer from advanced forms of alzheimers and dementia have lost their personhood.
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Just from personal experience, I disagree with this completely
 
#737
#737
therealUT said:
Yes, I think it is possible for someone to lose personhood. In fact, I think most who suffer from advanced forms of alzheimers and dementia have lost their personhood.
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So we can phase in and out of personhood? ie fugue states/depersonalization disorder/etc

?
 
#742
#742
therealUT said:
Yes, I think it is possible for someone to lose personhood. In fact, I think most who suffer from advanced forms of alzheimers and dementia have lost their personhood.
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That one hits close to home for me. My father died as a result of Alzheimer’s. My mother was on her way before a blood vessel in her brain saved her the indignity.

But they were still “people”, “persons”. Their reasoning and memories were just totally rewired.

So in the way you answered that have you thought about the concept of losing personhood before or is this a new pondering. I’ve honestly never thought of it before.

Now to make my brain really hurt, I am thinking you stated your athiest? It’s not an accusation.

But if so then the “human identity” doesn’t exist beyond the biological form right? If so, and the concept of reasoning is taken as defining a person, then one could argue that when the brain has developed to the point that logical thoughts are capable of being stored within the synaptic pathways you have reached “personhood”? Or you think it’s the imprinting, the forming of those thoughts that defines “personhood”? Because the former is a biological basis. The latter is just for lack of a better example “muscle memory”.

Might go to basis of picking a defining point for “person” from the atheistic viewpoint.

Full disclosure. I am not atheistic I am Christian. But I’m seriously not bringing that into this I have nothing I’m springing here.
 
#744
#744
My phone is seriously ****ed. I disabled my keyboard app and that helped a bit, but its still intolerable.
 
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#745
#745
NorthDallas40 said:
That one hits close to home for me. My father died as a result of Alzheimer’s. My mother was on her way before a blood vessel in her brain saved her the indignity.

But they were still “people”, “persons”. Their reasoning and memories were just totally rewired.

So in the way you answered that have you thought about the concept of losing personhood before or is this a new pondering. I’ve honestly never thought of it before.

Now to make my brain really hurt, I am thinking you stated your athiest? It’s not an accusation.

But if so then the “human identity” doesn’t exist beyond the biological form right? If so, and the concept of reasoning is taken as defining a person, then one could argue that when the brain has developed to the point that logical thoughts are capable of being stored within the synaptic pathways you have reached “personhood”? Or you think it’s the imprinting, the forming of those thoughts that defines “personhood”? Because the former is a biological basis. The latter is just for lack of a better example “muscle memory”.

Might go to basis of picking a defining point for “person” from the atheistic viewpoint.

Full disclosure. I am not atheistic I am Christian. But I’m seriously not bringing that into this I have nothing I’m springing here.
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I think anyone can agree the scary thing is, they aint ****ing there.
 
#746
#746
apevol said:
So we can phase in and out of personhood? ie fugue states/depersonalization disorder/etc

?
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That’s an interesting point of view from a legal standpoint if you could sell it. That would remove an individual’s rights and protections under the law.
 
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