Obama/McCain and Russia/Georgia

[allvol123]

Haven't seen much written about the views of the candidates on this situation but thought this was interesting. Especially since it came out of a Chicago paper...this guy better watch his back.

Mention Georgia a few days ago, and most of us would have thought of the state evoked so sweetly in "Georgia on My Mind," the classic tune sung by Ray Charles. Very few of us had heard of the South Ossetia province of Georgia, the nation with the misfortune to have Russia as its neighbor, until war broke out last week.
Like Kosovo, Bosnia, Kuwait and other unfamiliar places before, Ossetia reminds us that a small, remote corner of the globe can explode into an international crisis. One who was up to speed on Georgia and the menace it faced from Russia was veteran Sen. John McCain. He had visited the Caucasian nation three times in a dozen years. When fighting erupted, the presumptive Republican presidential candidate got on the phone to gather details and issued a statement Friday summarizing the situation, tagging Russia as the aggressor and demanding it withdraw its forces from the sovereign territory of Georgia.
It took first-term Sen. Barack Obama three tries to get it right. Headed for a vacation in Hawaii, the presumed Democratic candidate for commander in chief issued an even-handed statement, urging restraint by both sides. Later Friday, he again called for mutual restraint but blamed Russia for the fighting. The next day his language finally caught up with toughness of McCain's.
Making matters worse, Obama's staff focused on a McCain aide who had served as a lobbyist for Georgia, charging it showed McCain was "ensconced in a lobbyist culture." Obama's campaign came off as injecting petty partisan politics into an international crisis. This was not a serious response on behalf a man who aspires to be the leader of the Free World. After all, what's so bad about representing a small former Soviet republic struggling to remake itself as a Western-style democracy?
The comparison between the two candidates served to emphasize the strength McCain's experience would bring to the White House in a dangerous world.
Obama's favored approach to international issues, diplomatic talks, failed to stop Russia's invasion. Vladimir Putin, a KGB bull in the former Soviet Union, wants to restore Russia as the supreme power of Eurasia and, to that end, bully former vassal states like Georgia out of their democratic ways. The fear is that Ukraine will come in his cross hairs next.
However the world's newest war ends, America's leadership must recognize and respond to the underlying dynamic of Russia's resurgent aggressive instincts -- the power bestowed on Moscow by its oil and gas riches.
While we don't get fossil fuels from Russia, Western Europe does, and the Kremlin's energy might is fueled by the worldwide demand for oil. Developing U.S. domestic energy sources and alternatives to oil will only enhance our national security and, by reducing the world's petroleum demand, undermine the economic, political and military advantage vast oil and gas reserves give to unfriendly powers like Russia, Iran and Venezuela.
Obama calls for transforming America's economy in a decade. He's got the right idea -- long term. But short term, this nation must push for energy security on all fronts -- now. That includes new offshore drilling for oil, which Obama loathes, and new nuclear plants, which he views with aversion. We can't just wait for breakthrough technologies for wind, solar and biomass energy.
McCain has got it right in advocating new offshore drilling and a federal push to add 45 nuclear generators over the next two decades. Given the evidence of Russia's energy-fueled aggression, he should abandon his opposition to drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve and to extending subsidies he favors for nuclear energy to include renewables.
As Georgia burns, we need to light a fire under all the talk about energy security and start doing what it takes to make it happen

 

[MontereyVol]

What do you expect him to do? He commands Zero troops.

 

[allvol123]

You are referencing Obama? What do I expect him to do? Notice the part where I said the "views of the candidates". That is not a request for action from them.

 

[MontereyVol]

This whole situation has been handled badly by everyone outside of Russia. I dont want to be seen as an Obama supporter but, this peice and others like it, are trying to paint a candidate into a corner. McCains response IMO is laughable, talking tough without carrying a big stick makes you look like a fool.

 

[volinbham]

I think it's relevant to judge how each candidate says the situation should be handled. In fact, that's all we have to go on for all issues.

 

[allvol123]

This whole situation has been handled badly by everyone outside of Russia. I dont want to be seen as an Obama supporter but, this peice and others like it, are trying to paint a candidate into a corner. McCains response IMO is laughable, talking tough without carrying a big stick makes you look like a fool.

Why do you not want to be seen as an Obama supporter if you are one. McCain's stance is more laughable than Obama's?

 

[MontereyVol]

I am the undecided voter.

McCains talking tough and having nothing to back it up. When you are dealing with Russia, and I stress Russia, you dont make empty threats.

Obamas stance, while weak, wouldn't goad Russia into proving itself unafraid.

 

[allvol123]

I am the undecided voter.

McCains talking tough and having nothing to back it up. When you are dealing with Russia, and I stress Russia, you dont make empty threats.

Obamas stance, while weak, wouldn't goad Russia into proving itself unafraid.

How can McCain back it up? As VBH said, we only have their stated views to go by, neither is in charge of anything right now.

Obama is viewed as a novice in this area and his weak stance on the issue is very troubling.

 

[MontereyVol]

So if Obama had come out and stated the same thing McCain did he would be considered more presidential? So I am guessing you guys just like someone who is trying to look tough for the camara's. Russia is probably rolling on the floor laughing at him.

 

[allvol123]

Why do some Obama supporters still call themselves "undecided"? What view are you waiting to be clarified between the two? Energy policy, Iraq, taxes? Exactly what keeps you from choosing?

 

[allvol123]

So if Obama had come out and stated the same thing McCain did he would be considered more presidential? So I am guessing you guys just like someone who is trying to look tough for the camara's. Russia is probably rolling on the floor laughing at him.

Idk, but "urging restraint by both sides" just does not do it for me.

Russia will surely laugh if we elect Obama.

 

[dan4vols]

Why do some Obama supporters still call themselves "undecided"? What view are you waiting to be clarified between the two? Energy policy, Iraq, taxes? Exactly what keeps you from choosing?

Possibly no discernable differences in the race for lesser of 2 evils?:dance2:

 

[MontereyVol]

Energy, and I am undecided because, so far both of them suck.

 

[allvol123]

Possibly no discernable differences in the race for lesser of 2 evils?:dance2:

Oh, it is a campaign consisting of the lesser of two evils. But there are distinct differences between the two, I don't see the trouble in making a decision between the two.

 

[volinbham]

So if Obama had come out and stated the same thing McCain did he would be considered more presidential? So I am guessing you guys just like someone who is trying to look tough for the camara's. Russia is probably rolling on the floor laughing at him.

You are guessing wrong.

Here's comments Monday from both candidates:

John McCain made a statement on Monday in Erie, Penn.

• He called for a resolution by the United Nations Security Council condemning Russia’s actions.

• He called for an emergency session of the North American Treaty Organization to demand a cease fire.

• “Whatever hostilities might have existed between Georgians and Ossetians, they in no way justify Moscow’s path of violent aggression. Russian actions, in clear violation of international law, have no place in 21st century Europe.”

• “The implications of Russian actions go beyond their threat to the territorial integrity and independence of a democratic Georgia. Russia is using violence against Georgia, in part, to intimidate other neighbors — such as Ukraine — for choosing to associate with the West and adhering to Western political and economic values. “

• “Russian President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin must understand the severe, long-term negative consequences that their government’s actions will have for Russia’s relationship with the U.S. and Europe.

• “The U.S. should send immediate economic and humanitarian assistance to help mitigate the impact the invasion has had on the people of Georgia.”

Barack Obama released a statement on Monday from Hawaii

• He called for Russia to stop its bombing campaign, accept a cease-fire and withdraw ground forces from Georgia.

• He called for urgent humanitarian and economic assistance to reach the people in Georgia and casualties on both sides.

• He said the U.S. should push for a United Nations Security Council Resolution for “an immediate end to the violence.”

• He proposed there be a United Nations mediator to address the crisis.

• He called on other international forums to “condemn this aggression” and “to call for an immediate halt to the violence and to review multilateral and bilateral arrangements with Russia — including Russia’s interest in joining the World Trade Organization.”

• He proposed economic assistance to Georgia and calls for “deepening relations between Georgia and transatlantic institutions, including a Membership Action Plan for NATO.”

• “Let me be clear: We seek a future of cooperative engagement with the Russian government, and friendship with the Russian people. We want Russia to play its rightful role as a great nation — but with that role comes the responsibility to act as a force for progress in this new century, not regression to the conflicts of the past.”

Not much difference between them. All I can see is that Obama says "we want to be friends but you are making it difficult" McCain says "if you don't stop this crap, we can't be friends"

 

[MontereyVol]

Oh, it is a campaign consisting of the lesser of two evils. But there are distinct differences between the two, I don't see the trouble in making a decision between the two.

You probably don't see the problems involved in a lot of things.

 

[KB5252]

I am the undecided voter.

McCains talking tough and having nothing to back it up. When you are dealing with Russia, and I stress Russia, you dont make empty threats.

Obamas stance, while weak, wouldn't goad Russia into proving itself unafraid.

Those in control in Russia are very experienced men who know the consequences of their actions. I doubt any statements given by presidential candidates are going to escalate any tensions we might have with them.
However a weak response like Obama's will certainly give them the impression that he as a president would be slow to react if he were to be sworn in. When dealing with a nation of power you have to be quick to react (but not overly aggressive) and be clear on your intentions.
I do believe that Obama's most recent statements are in line with the above, he was just a little slower to get there.

 

[MontereyVol]

Those in control in Russia are very experienced men who know the consequences of their actions. I doubt any statements given by presidential candidates are going to escalate any tensions we might have with them.

They most definitely would use it for an excuse

However a weak response like Obama's will certainly give them the impression that he as a president would be slow to react if he were to be sworn in. When dealing with a nation of power you have to be quick to react (but not overly aggressive) and be clear on your intentions.

Which is a more troubling aspect for Russia? An America thats talking tough and no back-up or friends or an America thats uniting the world resolve and can make for an economic nightmare.

 

[allvol123]

You probably don't see the problems involved in a lot of things.

You are probably right, perhaps you can tudor me? You've done such an eloquent job of it in this thread so far.

 

[MontereyVol]

Oh, it is a campaign consisting of the lesser of two evils. But there are distinct differences between the two, I don't see the trouble in making a decision between the two.

Well then I guess thats it. No independent thought neccesary, its an easy choice for you, the rest of us must be stupid.

 

[allvol123]

Well then I guess thats it. No independent thought neccesary, its an easy choice for you, the rest of us must be stupid.

If you prefer to claim yourself as stupid, I'l not stop you. I however, never made such a reference.

 

[allvol123]

I do find it interesting though, how many of the "undecided voters" get real defensive about Obama.

 

[dan4vols]

Well then I guess thats it. No independent thought neccesary, its an easy choice for you, the rest of us must be stupid.

What do you expect? If it's not a glowing endorsement of Republican party propaganda it's a critism magnet. Most of the threads in politics are just shamless propaganda scripts, kinda like a Mark Levine show.

 

[allvol123]

What do you expect? If it's not a glowing endorsement of Republican party propaganda it's a critism magnet. Most of the threads in politics are just shamless propaganda scripts, kinda like a Mark Levine show.

Nice, coming from the "wrecked economy" guy.

 

[KB5252]

They most definitely would use it for an excuse
If they were to use that as an excuse it is inevitable and they would simply find another excuse. Bottom line it would still happen.


Which is a more troubling aspect for Russia? An America thats talking tough and no back-up or friends or an America thats uniting the world resolve and can make for an economic nightmare.

The first step after talking tough is economic sanctions. The oldest policy in the book.