#BoycottNRA

#1,076
#1,076
luthervol said:
Seems like there are areas for improvement. Make it a legal requirement to report stolen guns. What's the harm in that? And it could actually help close some loopholes being used to get guns into the black market.
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How would reporting stolen guns from ending up on the black market?
 
#1,077
#1,077
luthervol said:
I think it said 30% were stolen but many of those was only said to be stolen once law enforcement confronted the original owner about having a gun registered to him that was used in a crime. That's when Goober says "oh yea, I forgot, that was stolen."

It goes on to say that in 62% of the cases, it's unknown how the gun got from the original legal purchaser to the criminal. Most of Goober's guns would fall into this category.
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OK, see, you've changed the argument. You originally used Goober to describe some guy that sold guns that he bought to criminals on the black market. Now you are saying Goober is a guy that had his guns stolen but didn't report them.

luthervol said:
This is my point.

Currently, Goober can legally purchase guns (unlimited amounts it seems) and resell those guns to people with no tracing. Those guns, after one or two or three sales, are being purchased by criminals. When the gun turns up in a crime, it can only be traced back to the original purchaser, Goober, who claims either "it was stolen and I never reported it" or "I sold it to some guy named Jim Bob but I don't know his last name or where he lives." My proposal would eliminate both of Goober's options. Goober would no longer be able to supply guns to the secondary market. By eliminating the Goobers we are reducing the number of guns purchased for the sole purpose of reselling on the secondary/black market.
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#1,078
#1,078
luthervol said:
Where 50,000 Guns Recovered in Chicago Came From - Graphic - NYTimes.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...long-time-about-crime/?utm_term=.65d3037d0c55

They found that in approximately 8 out of 10 cases, the perpetrator was not a lawful gun owner but rather in illegal possession of a weapon that belonged to someone else. The researchers were primarily interested in how these guns made their way from a legal purchase — at a firearm dealer or via a private sale — to the scene of the crime.

"All guns start out as legal guns," Fabio said in an interview. But a "huge number of them" move into illegal hands. "As a public-health person, I'd like to be able to figure out that path," he added.

More than 30 percent of the guns that ended up at crime scenes had been stolen, according to Fabio's research. But more than 40 percent of those stolen guns weren't reported by the owners as stolen until after police contacted them when the gun was used in a crime.

One of the more concerning findings in the study was that for the majority of guns recovered (62 percent), "the place where the owner lost possession of the firearm was unknown."


If that doesn't raise eyebrows ........
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About what? Their heavy restrictions that opened up a massive black market?

More like eye rolling. I'm sure tho it would be a different story if it was Fed law. No way it would strike out that bad.
 
#1,079
#1,079
luthervol said:
The illegality of drugs caused me to use illegal drugs less than I otherwise would have.

I choose not to use illegal drugs now because I know the risks, understand the dangers, and avoided complete addiction when I was younger because they were illegal.

Some people are wise enough to make the right choice regardless of legality, but many are not. Of the ones who are not, many do it anyway and many avoid it because of the illegality.

If there were no speed limits and people were left to use their best judgment, many would still drive safely, but many others would choose to speed (especially the young and the stupid).

All the same applies to guns.
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The number of responsible people who know how to use guns far, far outweigh those that dont. You cannot punish the vast majority for the irresponsibility of the minority. The NRA or access to weapons isnt the problem.
 
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#1,080
#1,080
luthervol said:
Seems like there are areas for improvement. Make it a legal requirement to report stolen guns. What's the harm in that? And it could actually help close some loopholes being used to get guns into the black market.
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There's no "harm" in it.

Your idea that it's gonna close some loopholes in an already "illegal" market is naive. And that's putting it kindly.
 
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#1,081
#1,081
Rasputin_Vol said:
OK, see, you've changed the argument. You originally used Goober to describe some guy that sold guns that he bought to criminals on the black market. Now you are saying Goober is a guy that had his guns stolen but didn't report them.
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No, I'm saying Goober can claim they were stolen (even though they were not) and nobody would know the difference. The next time Goober will say he sold it to Billy Bob. The next time Goober will say it was stolen. The point was always, Goober could say either thing and there is no way to prove him wrong or hold him accountable. Goober keeps buying guns that somehow disappear, there is no system in place that even remotely tries to hold Goober accountable.
 
#1,082
#1,082
luthervol said:
Makes no difference for this particular argument. Separate issue entirely.
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Is it? What is the issue then? We weren't hastagging boycott the NRA before an AR-15 was used in FL. Where are you trying to go with this?

Do you think that reporting a gun as stolen makes any difference to a criminal intent on killing someone with it?

He already can safely assume it's stolen. WTF does he or she care?

The gun owner might care if he or she wants to get it back but it makes no difference to the criminal.
 
#1,088
#1,088
BigOrangeTrain said:
The number of responsible people who know how to use guns far, far outweigh those that dont. You cannot punish the vast majority for the irresponsibility of the minority. The NRA or access to weapons isnt the problem.
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I guess the 30% of guns confiscated in crimes that end up being reported as "stolen" were all stolen from responsible people. That's a lot of responsible people having guns stolen and and failing to report the theft. It's almost irresponsible.
 
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#1,089
#1,089
DancingOutlaw said:
I drive almost every day through a construction zone with a 45mph speed limit. Sometimes I feel like I’m going backwards because I get passed so much. It’s almost like people know what the law is, and ignore it. Weird.
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I know, right? Can you imagine what would happen if there was no speed limit?
 
#1,090
#1,090
luthervol said:
True. Maybe thousands, maybe tens of thousands, haybe hundreds......there is no way we could conceivably know under the current system
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Here's a sad irony. This guy gave us a record that we wouldn't have because he bought legally. He then proceeds to spell out what his intentions are. You have the feds and locals involved, with the record of a legally purchased weapon and nothing is done. But yet where talking about goobers.

He buys out of the back of a van (That regardless of your idea will get worse and not better with a ban) You don't have the record. Even tho you still have enough threats and priors to take action.

There was a failure. But too many are looking away from it.
 
#1,093
#1,093
What is the definition of “DROS” and how does it apply?

mark selmi November 30, 1999. Posted in Shooting Range / Club 21774

The DROS is the “Dealers Record of Sale” form that must be filled out each time a firearm is purchased. The DROS form completed for handgun transfers contains information about both the firearm buyer and the firearm itself (make, model, serial number, etc.). This information is used by the Department of Justice to run the criminal and mental history background check on the buyer and to register the handgun. Handgun registrations are actually done and maintained by the Department of Justice, but local law enforcement agencies have access to them 24 hours a day. The DROS form completed for rifle and shotgun transfers contains no information about these firearms and they are not registered. The “DROS fee” collected by the firearms dealer is sent to the Department of Justice along with the DROS form to pay for the Department’s cost of conducting the criminal and mental history background check. By state law, the department is not allowed to charge any more than its actual costs. It is expressly prohibited from making a profit on the DROS fee. The firearms dealer is required to keep a copy of this DROS form on file for three years during which time virtually any law enforcement agency or officer can have access to it. There is, however, a prohibition against law enforcement retaining any information from the dealer’s file copy. It should be noted, though, that federal law requires dealers to keep the Federal Form 4473 on file for twenty years. This 4473 form, which is completed by all firearms buyers, contains specific information about both the purchaser and the rifle, pistol, or shotgun purchased.

So luther, how many of those recovered guns from California came back to the same person?
 
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#1,095
#1,095
BeecherVol said:
Here's a sad irony. This guy gave us a record that we wouldn't have because he bought legally. He then proceeds to spell out what his intentions are. You have the feds and locals involved, with the record of a legally purchased weapon and nothing is done. But yet where talking about goobers.

He buys out of the back of a van (That regardless of your idea will get worse and not better with a ban) You don't have the record. Even tho you still have enough threats and priors to take action.

There was a failure. But too many are looking away from it.
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It's easier to blame the big, bad, NRA, than to blame government institutions that liberals think are infallible.
 
#1,096
#1,096
luthervol said:
They never will be able to. They will trace it to the last legal owner and that person will have to explain why the gun in no longer in their possession. If it was stolen, it should have been reported immediately. If it was sold or given away, proper paper work should have been submitted. Hold the last legal owner partially responsible. If they had follow the law, they have nothing to worry about.
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That's just stupid.
 
#1,097
#1,097
luthervol said:
So many of you completely fail to grasp the issue that my head is spinning.
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No we get it Loother. You want to take all of the guns and stop making them available to civilians. That way no one has them so no one can steal what you don't have.

Just say it and stop with BS round and round.
 
#1,098
#1,098
luthervol said:
I guess the 30% of guns confiscated in crimes that end up being reported as "stolen" were all stolen from responsible people. That's a lot of responsible people having guns stolen and and failing to report the theft. It's almost irresponsible.
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Ok lets put this into perspective a little. Say my 9mm is stolen and I report as such. Police take the report. Then what? What do you think thats going to accomplish? My gun is already out there. It doesnt matter what the serial number is anyway. If a criminal uses my gun, its at least somewhat likely they trash my gun after using it.

So if that happens, what has my reporting my gun stolen actually done? In reality, absolutely nothing.
 
#1,100
#1,100
luthervol said:
Why would you not report a gun if it was stolen?

It would help to slow down the number of guns finding their way into the hands of criminals. I would think that would be an objective most would agree on, everyone except those that would lose a source of income or those with delusional paranoia causing them to think people are trying to take their right to own a gun away.
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Most people would. But your threat of jackbooted thuggery is just asinine. You want to make the mere ownership of gun ownership onerous.29 more people dies today as a result of drunk drivers. Maybe bar owners need be held accountable too. And bartenders. After all, Dink serves drunks and KNOWS it to boot.

You are a ****ing fascist idiot.
 
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