Mass shooting of the week, high school in parkland, FL.

#1,354
#1,354
luthervol said:
Since you asked in such a clever way.....

If defendthishouse's argument is true and in turn reason for not enacting laws, then the natural extension would be that there should be no laws at all since they only hurt the law abiding and have no impact on the criminal.

Very few, if any, (although you never know with this crowd) people on this board would advocate for a completely lawless society. Which means laws are (or at least can be) both necessary and beneficial.
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The topic is specifically about guns and you know that he was referring to gun laws....try again Skippy
 
#1,363
#1,363
hndog609 said:
Yeah...some of the most brutal decisions in legal history were about getting things like murder and rape deemed illegal.
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funny....the point is that the laws everybody agrees to are the ones that they would naturally follow even if it was not illegal. People do not avoid murdering and raping others because it is illegal, they don't do it because they inherently know that it's wrong. There is no law needed to guide people. It's when many are in disagreement about if it is wrong or right that it often eventually has to become a legal issue.

Do I have to spell everything out?
 
#1,364
#1,364
luthervol said:
funny....the point is that the laws everybody agrees to are the ones that they would naturally follow even if it was not illegal. People do not avoid murdering and raping others because it is illegal, they don't do it because they inherently know that it's wrong. There is no law needed to guide people. It's when many are in disagreement about if it is wrong or right that it often eventually has to become a legal issue.

Do I have to spell everything out?
Click to expand...

I can tell you flat out there are a couple people alive today because murder is illegal and prison doesn't appeal to me.
 
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#1,365
#1,365
luthervol said:
funny....the point is that the laws everybody agrees to are the ones that they would naturally follow even if it was not illegal. People do not avoid murdering and raping others because it is illegal, they don't do it because they inherently know that it's wrong. There is no law needed to guide people. It's when many are in disagreement about if it is wrong or right that it often eventually has to become a legal issue.

Do I have to spell everything out?
Click to expand...

So Cruz did not know murder was wrong. He needed one of those "grey zone" gun laws to prevent him from murdering 17 people.

Right...
 
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#1,367
#1,367
1972 Grad said:
I agree. Target acquisition takes time. I also think that Oswald could have fired the 3 shots in 5.6 seconds. From what I understand, it was 5.6 seconds from the sound of the 1st shot until the 3rd. That is almost 3 seconds between shots.

That's doable, although that was a pretty crappy action on that particular rifle, and a pretty crappy scope, but he wasn't far away, and the target was moving away from him, not sideways.
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I fired that exact model many times one fall about 1973. A friend and I would take two or five of his dad's gun collection out back into his woods and kill trees. He used them for firewood anyway. But I digress.

His dad was a tool & die/machinist/make any damn thing you want millwright at the big machine shop over at the K-25 plant at Oak Ridge. He'd do whatever gunsmithing he needed.
The rifle was a short muzzle Carcano and and it was easy to re-chamber. All it took to get reasonably proficient was run a hundred or so rounds through it while sighting in. After a few Saturday afternoons we had easily done that. And it damn sure would kill the trees behind our targets. He brought some old mellons out one day and we made juice out of em. The most fun though had always been knocking whole mistletoe bushes out of trees by cutting their base stem with a 22 long. Drive a trunk and backseat full up to Knoxville and sell it on the Market Square to the wreath makers for $5 a bush. They liked it lots better than ones brought down with a shotgun. I can still knock the tweeter off a skeeter at 300 meter.

And that century old Carcano Italian Military rifle is right now fully capable of playing hell in the hands of someone who's only fired it enough to figure out how it operates.

If "assault weapons" are banned, the determined mass killer will only go to whatever rifle or pistol he can get. A 22 has long rifle has virtually no recoil, is highly accurate making deadly head shots on semi-auto, or even bolt action easy.

Take away all guns and the killer will go to knives or worse yet ...

Drive a sedan loaded with ten 50 lb. kerosene soaked fertilizer bags (ANFO bomb-Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil) covered with ball bearings into the crowd before school killing many more than any mass shooter has yet.
---------------
Took all of thirty seconds to find the basics of how that's done.

McVeigh Diagrams ANFO Bomb.
http://www.wnd.com/2001/05/9372/
----------------

Gun control laws will not make schools safer from determined mass killers who for several weeks go about deciding what they want to do, ordering/buying the gun/ammo/etc...they will just switch to what they can get. Some options even more deadly.

We have to find ways to intervene before the killer goes postal.

We'll pay a first round athlete a gazillion dollars, but we won't pay specialists to devise and execute methods of intervention before kids are killed.

We must love our football more than our kids.
 
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#1,368
#1,368
luthervol said:
funny....the point is that the laws everybody agrees to are the ones that they would naturally follow even if it was not illegal. People do not avoid murdering and raping others because it is illegal, they don't do it because they inherently know that it's wrong. There is no law needed to guide people. It's when many are in disagreement about if it is wrong or right that it often eventually has to become a legal issue.

Do I have to spell everything out?
Click to expand...

Nice try, no sale. If you are suggesting that if murder/rape were legal there'd be little difference than what we have now then well, you're an idiot.

Overlooking you trying to save some kind of face after such an absurd assertion I understand the concept of "grey zone" laws. That "some" such laws came to pass and are now supported does nothing to support the merit of any other "grey zone" law. How one perceives such laws is entirely a matter of bias. For you a "grey zone" law would suck if it doesn't go your way...right?
 
#1,371
#1,371
hndog609 said:
Nice try, no sale. If you are suggesting that if murder/rape were legal there'd be little difference than what we have now then well, you're an idiot.

Overlooking you trying to save some kind of face after such an absurd assertion I understand the concept of "grey zone" laws. That "some" such laws came to pass and are now supported does nothing to support the merit of any other "grey zone" law. How one perceives such laws is entirely a matter of bias. For you a "grey zone" law would suck if it doesn't go your way...right?
Click to expand...

Not trying to sell anything. You not comprehending does not equate to me trying to save face.

Of course grey zone laws are a matter of bias (preference). That's kind of what makes them grey zone. If a law doesn't go my way, it would certainly suck. Is that suppose to be insightful? You guys can be so concrete yet so shallow.

Let's have a little peek into your view of humanity. If murder and rape were not illegal, what percentage of the US population (ball park estimate) do you believe would become murderers and rapists?
 
#1,372
#1,372
Orangedogsrule said:
I fired that exact model many times one fall about 1973. A friend and I would take two or five of his dad's gun collection out back into his woods and kill trees. He used them for firewood anyway. But I digress.

His dad was a tool & die/machinist/make any damn thing you want millwright at the big machine shop over at the K-25 plant at Oak Ridge. He'd do whatever gunsmithing he needed.
The rifle was a short muzzle Carcano and and it was easy to re-chamber. All it took to get reasonably proficient was run a hundred or so rounds through it while sighting in. After a few Saturday afternoons we had easily done that. And it damn sure would kill the trees behind our targets. He brought some old mellons out one day and we made juice out of em. The most fun though had always been knocking whole mistletoe bushes out of trees by cutting their base stem with a 22 long. Drive a trunk and backseat full up to Knoxville and sell it on the Market Square to the wreath makers for $5 a bush. They liked it lots better than ones brought down with a shotgun. I can still knock the tweeter off a skeeter at 300 meter.

And that century old Carcano Italian Military rifle is right now fully capable of playing hell in the hands of someone who's only fired it enough to figure out how it operates.

If "assault weapons" are banned, the determined mass killer will only go to whatever rifle or pistol he can get. A 22 has long rifle has virtually no recoil, is highly accurate making deadly head shots on semi-auto, or even bolt action easy.

Take away all guns and the killer will go to knives or worse yet ...

Drive a sedan loaded with ten 50 lb. kerosene soaked fertilizer bags (ANFO bomb-Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil) covered with ball bearings into the crowd before school killing many more than any mass shooter has yet.
---------------
Took all of thirty seconds to find the basics of how that's done.

McVeigh Diagrams ANFO Bomb.
http://www.wnd.com/2001/05/9372/
----------------

Gun control laws will not make schools safer from determined mass killers who for several weeks go about deciding what they want to do, ordering/buying the gun/ammo/etc...they will just switch to what they can get. Some options even more deadly.

We have to find ways to intervene before the killer goes postal.

We'll pay a first round athlete a gazillion dollars, but we won't pay specialists to devise and execute methods of intervention before kids are killed.

We must love our football more than our kids.
Click to expand...
Depends on who's playing.
 
#1,375
#1,375
Ban assault weapons.

Make it a felony to possess an assault weapon.

Reimburse those who turn in their assault weapon(s) the full value.

A good first step.
 
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