Where did life begin? (Merged)

Do you believe we have a creator, aka "God"?

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#2,152
#2,152
Wafflestomper said:
How do we know John actually wrote it?
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Same way that Bart Ehrman knows it.

Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, "Lord, who is the one who betrays You?" So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, and what about this man?" Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!" Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" *This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things*, and we know that his testimony is true.
John 21:20*-‬24 NASB
 
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#2,154
#2,154
QuickSmurf said:
Same way that Bart Ehrman knows it.

Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, "Lord, who is the one who betrays You?" So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, and what about this man?" Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!" Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" *This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things*, and we know that his testimony is true.
John 21:20*-‬24 NASB
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Bart Ehrman believes the gospels were originally circulated anonymously. May want to check your sources.
 
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#2,157
#2,157
JHuntVols said:
Divine Simplicity.
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Thanks for the read. As you probably already know, alot of learned Christian theologians disagree with this idea about the nature of God. The question I posed was in response to alaVol’s
Originally Posted by alaVOL:
Of course there is a creator. There is 100% chance that nothing can produce nothing. Therefore, something created the heavens and the earth. That something is I AM.
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He claims (probably correctly so) that there must be a creator as nothing cannot create something. I asked what created God.

Divine simplicity allows a separation of the person from his attributes as seen here from the link you provided.

And so, in terms of subjects and accidents, as in the phrase "goodness of God", divine simplicity allows that there is a conceptual distinction between the person of God and the personal attribute of goodness, but the doctrine disallows that God's identity or "character" is dependent upon goodness, and at the same time the doctrine dictates that it is impossible to consider the goodness in which God participates separately from the goodness which God is.
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So what created the person of God?
 
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#2,158
#2,158
The Ron Mexico said:
Thanks for the read. As you probably already know, alot of learned Christian theologians disagree with this idea about the nature of God. The question I posed was in response to alaVol’s

He claims (probably correctly so) that there must be a creator as nothing cannot create something. I asked what created God.

Divine simplicity allows a separation of the person from his attributes as seen here from the link you provided.



So what created the person of God?
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I suggest u i dig a little.
God exist a se. He is the unmade maker.
 
#2,160
#2,160
Sitting here after a great dinner cooked by my wife, watching my granddaughter squirming around while sipping some whiskey I made with my son is pretty much all the proof I need that there is a God.
 
#2,161
#2,161
JHuntVols said:
Can you elaborate on why you think the soul is not immortal?
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I could
I have on many cases.
We once lost a thread over it as the conversation turned ......heated.

Let’s go with the simple approach.
With scripture
Life means life.
Death means death .....1st 2nd or otherwise
We come from dust and will return to it.
Life is in the blood
You are a living soul.....you don’t have one.
 
#2,163
#2,163
Roustabout said:
I suggest u i dig a little.
God exist a se. He is the unmade maker.
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I'm familiar with aseity. It's the philosophical equivalent of "stop asking questions".

But I believe we gain a greater understanding of everything (to include faith, religion, and the natural world) by questioning everything.
 
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#2,164
#2,164
The Ron Mexico said:
I'm familiar with aseity. It's the philosophical equivalent of "stop asking questions".

But I believe we gain a greater understanding of everything (to include faith, religion, and the natural world) by questioning everything.
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Is an infinite regression of moments a logical possible reality?
 
#2,165
#2,165
The Ron Mexico said:
I'm familiar with aseity. It's the philosophical equivalent of "stop asking questions".

But I believe we gain a greater understanding of everything (to include faith, religion, and the natural world) by questioning everything.
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James 1:2-4

2 Regard it all as joy, my brothers, when you face various kinds of temptations; 3 for you know that the testing of your trust produces perseverance. 4 But let perseverance do its complete work; so that you may be complete and whole, lacking in nothing.



Test away Brother Ron.
 
#2,167
#2,167
Orange_Crush said:
Is an infinite regression of moments a logical possible reality?
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I cannot explain infinite regression. And I'm okay with saying that I don't understand it. I know some folks far smarter than me (atheist, Christian, and everything in between) have written papers on this problem.

But just because I believe in a creator doesn't make it factual. And because we can't explain something doesn't mean we should automatically apply a god to it.
 
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#2,168
#2,168
The Ron Mexico said:
I cannot explain infinite regression. And I'm okay with saying that I don't understand it. I know some folks far smarter than me (atheist, Christian, and everything in between) have written papers on this problem.

But just because I believe in a creator doesn't make it factual. And because we can't explain something doesn't mean we should automatically apply a god to it.
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An infinite regression of moments is a logical impossibility. It isn't about whether one can explain it or not. It's about the fact that if there was an infinite number of moments stretching out into eternity past, we would never make it to this moment.

My point is that aseity isn't merely an attempt to quell questions.
 
#2,169
#2,169
The Ron Mexico said:
I cannot explain infinite regression. And I'm okay with saying that I don't understand it. I know some folks far smarter than me (atheist, Christian, and everything in between) have written papers on this problem.

But just because I believe in a creator doesn't make it factual. And because we can't explain something doesn't mean we should automatically apply a god to it.
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Yes.

St Thomas Aquinas' word salads aside I think it's intellectually lazy for anyone point to the universe and say it must have a creator and then be satisfied with not having to apply that logic to the creator itself.

I can accept the not knowing but I would imagine it's viewed as a chink in the armor by the faithful and therefore easily brushed aside as unimportant.
 
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#2,170
#2,170
Orange_Crush said:
An infinite regression of moments is a logical impossibility. It isn't about whether one can explain it or not. It's about the fact that if there was an infinite number of moments stretching out into eternity past, we would never make it to this moment.

My point is that aseity isn't merely an attempt to quell questions.
Click to expand...

It's OK to say you don't know, suggesting that a god did it is not logical.
 
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#2,173
#2,173
The Ron Mexico said:
I cannot explain infinite regression. And I'm okay with saying that I don't understand it. I know some folks far smarter than me (atheist, Christian, and everything in between) have written papers on this problem.

But just because I believe in a creator doesn't make it factual. And because we can't explain something doesn't mean we should automatically apply a god to it.
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Well, that's not how the arguments go.
 
#2,175
#2,175
Septic said:
Yes.

St Thomas Aquinas' word salads aside I think it's intellectually lazy for anyone point to the universe and say it must have a creator and then be satisfied with not having to apply that logic to the creator itself.

I can accept the not knowing but I would imagine it's viewed as a chink in the armor by the faithful and therefore easily brushed aside as unimportant.
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Throwing out the "word salad" complaint is a lazy tactic to ignore the argument and technical terms being used.
Aquinas accepted an eternal universe, so it's obvious you don't understand.
 
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