Where did life begin? (Merged)

[The Ron Mexico]

If there were 'evidence' then one wouldn't need faith. What is this evidence you speak of?

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[VolsSportsFan]

I think that's a fair statement, but that wouldn't apply to me. I not only believe there is evidence (that most secularists would probably not accept), but that the preponderance of the evidence points to a creator.

You would be correct that secularists wouldn’t accept the “evidence”....because unless you have some brand new “evidence”, the “evidence” presented isn’t evidence at all.

If you need examples see Creationism and Intelligent Design.

Also a nitpick but technically everyone is agnostic, because gnosticism has to do with knowledge, and no one knows for fact if there is any higher power or not.

 

[K9Buck]

You would be correct that secularists wouldn’t accept the “evidence”....because unless you have some brand new “evidence”, the “evidence” presented isn’t evidence at all.

If you need examples see Creationism and Intelligent Design.

Also a nitpick but technically everyone is agnostic, because gnosticism has to do with knowledge, and no one knows for fact if there is any higher power or not.

What if I had "died" and went to Heaven and met Jesus and was then revived? Would that be sufficient evidence FOR ME?

 

[Orangeslice13]

If there were 'evidence' then one wouldn't need faith. What is this evidence you speak of?

Everyone’s mind works a little differently. Evidence means different things to different people. For example when scientists cracked open the atom for the first time and all the crap inside it fell out there were some that came to the conclusion that there had to be a G-d because everything was fine tuned down to the smallest conceivable level. There were some in the group who felt it absolutely proved there was no G-d.
Everyone operates on faith to some degree. You take the evidence you have and draw a conclusion then move on from there.
There is evidence enough for my faith to not be foolishness. If your faith leads you to believe there is no G-d then I can respect that. You’ve put thought into and that’s your choice.

 

[K9Buck]

The "evidence" indicates that the universe had a beginning. Here's a question. What got the universe started? Did it start itself? Or did someone or something get it started? I'm going with the latter. How about you?

 

[Wafflestomper]

The "evidence" indicates that the universe had a beginning. Here's a question. What got the universe started? Did it start itself? Or did someone or something get it started? I'm going with the latter. How about you?

What if that something is an infinite number of non-contingent and unintelligent "beings?"

How could you infer that what started the process did so of its own volition?

 

[K9Buck]

What if that something is an infinite number of non-contingent and unintelligent "beings?"

How could you infer that what started the process did so of its own volition?

Nah. Our universe is very complex. There is intelligence behind it, or so I believe. It's certainly ok with me if others prefer to believe that the universe made itself.

 

[Wafflestomper]

Nah. Our universe is very complex. There is intelligence behind it, or so I believe. It's certainly ok with me if others prefer to believe that the universe made itself.

Why does complexity necessarily require intelligence?

That's not necessarily what I believe--I don't claim to know. However, you should have a good reason for picking one of these options over the other, and the god option, to me, is supported by the worst evidence.

If god is out there then it definitely isn't concerned with providing people good evidence that it exists. If it is going to punish/torture people for not believing in it on bad evidence then it also isn't worth worshiping.

 

[K9Buck]

If god is out there then it definitely isn't concerned with providing people good evidence that it exists.

Maybe "it" wants to see how we'll behave if we're not sure he exists.

 

[Wafflestomper]

Maybe "it" wants to see how we'll behave if we're not sure he exists.

Doesn't an all-knowing being already know that?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Why does complexity necessarily require intelligence?

That's not necessarily what I believe--I don't claim to know. However, you should have a good reason for picking one of these options over the other, and the god option, to me, is supported by the worst evidence.

If god is out there then it definitely isn't concerned with providing people good evidence that it exists. If it is going to punish/torture people for not believing in it on bad evidence then it also isn't worth worshiping.

Eternal torment doesn’t exist for mortals (humans) the concept of eternal torment/torture comes from Dante’s inferno. DI got the concept from the verse that is specifically speaking to the immortal fallen angles and their leader. When humans and judgement are discussed in scripture and the letters (New Testament) it’s always a 2nd death. Even the vs that says everyone judged is thrown into the lake of fire prepared for the fallen angles, says that those people are destroyed. People that hang onto eternal torment claim that “the smoke of there destruction will rise forever “ means eternal torment. But a little research will show that is a figure of speech of the time that speaks to permanent ending not an ongoing event.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Maybe "it" wants to see how we'll behave if we're not sure he exists.

Maybe the book of Job is an allegory for all of history.



Not sure anyone will understand what I’m saying.

I’ll check back in a while to find out

 

[Orangeslice13]

Doesn't an all-knowing being already know that?

You and I could have some fun conversations

 

[K9Buck]

Doesn't an all-knowing being already know that?

Probably. But we have free will. Just because he might know what we're going to do doesn't mean we didn't make the choice.

 

[K9Buck]

Maybe the book of Job is an allegory for all of history.



Not sure anyone will understand what I’m saying.

I’ll check back in a while to find out

I guess I need to go read it.

 

[Wafflestomper]

Probably. But we have free will. Just because he might know what we're going to do doesn't mean we didn't make the choice.

If that's the case then there is still no reason to test us and see what we'll do. An omniscient god would already know.

How do you know there isn't a god who invented these religions, and will reward people for not believing in them?

 

[OuterBanksVol]

 

[K9Buck]

If that's the case then there is still no reason to test us and see what we'll do. An omniscient god would already know.

How do you know there isn't a god who invented these religions, and will reward people for not believing in them?

I don't know anything. I believe we have a creator. What do you believe?

 

[Wafflestomper]

Eternal torment doesn’t exist for mortals (humans) the concept of eternal torment/torture comes from Dante’s inferno. DI got the concept from the verse that is specifically speaking to the immortal fallen angles and their leader. When humans and judgement are discussed in scripture and the letters (New Testament) it’s always a 2nd death. Even the vs that says everyone judged is thrown into the lake of fire prepared for the fallen angles, says that those people are destroyed. People that hang onto eternal torment claim that “the smoke of there destruction will rise forever “ means eternal torment. But a little research will show that is a figure of speech of the time that speaks to permanent ending not an ongoing event.

There are a lot of Christian denominations, and they all believe they interpret the same evidence correctly. Not saying you're wrong, but what makes your interpretation more valid than someone else's when many people claim parts of the Bible (or other holy book) are meant to be allegories? God didn't include a guide for how to interpret scripture.

 

[K9Buck]

There are a lot of Christian denominations, and they all believe they interpret the same evidence correctly.

By the same token, talk to 100 atheists and you'll get 100 different views on the meaning of life, etc.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

I dont know. Heres what I think. IF we have a creator I dont believe the creator is from this earth or is human.

 

[Wafflestomper]

By the same token, talk to 100 atheists and you'll get 100 different views on the meaning of life, etc.

All atheist have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods. There is no doctrine.

 

[K9Buck]

All atheist have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods. There is no doctrine.

They have their own, individual, world views as do Christians.

 

[Septic]

By the same token, talk to 100 atheists and you'll get 100 different views on the meaning of life, etc.

Isn't that a beautiful thing?

 

[Septic]

Everyone’s mind works a little differently. Evidence means different things to different people. For example when scientists cracked open the atom for the first time and all the crap inside it fell out there were some that came to the conclusion that there had to be a G-d because everything was fine tuned down to the smallest conceivable level. There were some in the group who felt it absolutely proved there was no G-d.
Everyone operates on faith to some degree. You take the evidence you have and draw a conclusion then move on from there.
There is evidence enough for my faith to not be foolishness. If your faith leads you to believe there is no G-d then I can respect that. You’ve put thought into and that’s your choice.

Thoughtful, fair enough.