Here's why I'm anti-Gruden.

#51
#51
lccstory@gmail.co said:
"There's also the little factoid that Gruden turned Tennessee down when Butch Jones was hired, a factoid that nobody wants to remember. There's the little factoid that never, not once, has the man come out and said "I want to coach at the University of Tennessee". Not once. He may have said some nice things, but all he's doing is using us to gain notoriety. That's it, y'all."

Absolutely. If he has ever indicated that he wants to come to Knox, I missed it. He seems to enjoy the attention and speculation, but doesn't want to come here.
Click to expand...

I underlined the one factoid in your post.
 
#53
#53
DeusExMachina said:
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away......

Let me take you back a few years, but before I do allow me to say that this trip isn't going to be a short one. Therefore, if you suffer from being short on attention, or refuse to see anything other than your own point of view (seems to be a recurring thing around here)......you might not want to read this.

The year was 1998, and yours truly was 19 years old. Like all other 19 year olds, I had a lot on my mind, but first and foremost was my love for the mighty University of Tennessee, who, unbeknownst to most, would go undefeated that year and capture the first ever BCS National Championship. But, I wasn't just a fan of college football at that time, I had an NFL team as well. They had worn predominately the same colors as my beloved Big Orange, but hailed from farther south, from a city called Tampa. 1998 heralded a change for the Buccaneers, though, as the "creamsicle" uniforms were replaced by a much tougher looking combination of pewter, red, and black. Helmed by a coach which I personally was unsure of in Tony Dungy, the Buccaneers garnered my attention on Sundays, where the Vols had it on Saturday.

Fast forward three years. The year is 2002, and things weren't well on Rocky Top, as the Vols ended the season with an 8-5 record, falling to lowly Maryland in the Peach Bowl after the season. Things were equally as bad in Tampa, as Coach Dungy was sacked by general manager Rich McKay (after urging by owner Malcolm Glazer) for being "too conservative". Despite all this, Dungy left the Buccaneers as the only coach to do so with a winning overall record. McKay and Glazer then teamed up, and went out and got their man, mortgaging the future (2002/2003 first round draft picks, 2002/2004 second round draft picks and 8 million in cash) for the present. Enter head Buccaneer, Jon Gruden.

I'll be the first to admit, as a Buccaneer fan, I was overly excited for the hire of Jon Gruden. I knew that he was a young, exciting coach and had miles and miles of potential. Little did I know that that potential would very quickly manifest itself in a 12-4 record and a trip to the playoffs, where the hated Philadelphia Eagles fell before the Bucs. Super Bowl 37 came next, and with it a drubbing of the team that Gruden spurned to come to Tampa, the Oakland Raiders. Yours truly was on top of the sports world, as my excitement on January 26, 2003 win was only slightly less than it was on January 4, 1999. However, events would soon transpire that would call into question the ability of the head Buccaneer, things that I will now (in an effort to shorten this tome) explain.

I've been hyper critical of anyone on this site of anyone who wants Jon Gruden as the next head coach of the Tennessee Volunteers. I've been put on ignore, I've been called names, I've been told that I'm the one that's being willfully ignorant, so on and so forth. The man has a .541 career record, yet some on here are willing to crown him the second coming of Robert Reese Neyland and hand him the keys to the city of Knoxville instead of a contract. I actually saw someone just yesterday make the comment that "Bill Parcells has a .569 career record". Parcells was a head coach in the NFL for 23 years, Gruden was a head coach for 10. The basis of comparison is slightly skewed on this one due to the length of time worked.

I've made the comment time and again that Gruden was 45-54 after the Super Bowl, despite having a first ballot hall of fame defensive coordinator calling the other side of the ball and despite having a top 10 defense for 6 out of the 7 years he was head coach. "But salary cap, but ownership, but the general manager (despite it being his buddy from Oakland, Bruce Allen from 2004-on), but blah blah blah". None of these seemed to effect the defensive side of the ball. Just saying. Only the offense, which Gruden played a VERY large part in, suffered and never broke the top half of the NFL in overall efficiency.

I've heard the comment "but what was Saban and Spurrier's record in the NFL before coming back to college??"......riddle me this (and no using Google, that's cheating), who were the defensive coordinators for Saban at MIA and Spurrier at WAS?? And how bad are the Dolphins and Skins to this day (to be fair, the Bucs have been pretty disgusting as well). Exactly. If you can tell me with a straight face that everything was equal between Gruden, Saban, and Spurrier......you need to be examined.

I've heard the proclamation that "all Gruden would have to do is flash his Super Bowl ring and 5* recruits would be lining up outside the stadium fighting for a chance to play for him". Nick Saban and Urban Meyer have both won national championships, yet they still frequently miss out on getting 5* players. Oh, and there's the fact that Gruden has already failed with far better talent, yet he's suddenly going to be a world-beater with high school talent?? :ermm:

There's also the little factoid that Gruden turned Tennessee down when Butch Jones was hired, a factoid that nobody wants to remember. There's the little factoid that never, not once, has the man come out and said "I want to coach at the University of Tennessee". Not once. He may have said some nice things, but all he's doing is using us to gain notoriety. That's it, y'all.

In closing, let me say that despite what any "insider" on here may say, I am confident that Jon Gruden will not be coaching the Vols at any point in the future. "How can you be so confident", you might ask??? I'm also confident that the administration of the University hasn't completely and utterly lost their senses, and unlike some on here, aren't willing to rename the stadium for a guy with a record that's barely over .500, and whose claim to fame is making stupid faces and reading a teleprompter. Of course, if I'm wrong, then so be it. I just won't be around to see Gruden do to the Vols what he did to the Bucs.
Click to expand...

Don't be a pecker!
 
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#57
#57
themoodystwo said:
Take a gander at Gruden's coaching record and winning percentage, If you call that intelligent then please give me the online address of the university where you got your IQ diploma. :hi:
Click to expand...

You are free to believe whatever you wish. But if you think a guy who won 5 division titles and a Super Bwol in the NFL is a bad coach, then you know very little about coaching.

Gruden is far from an elite coach. But the guy can coach.
 
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#58
#58
mad4vols said:
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Click to expand...

We have a winner!
 
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#59
#59
K-town Vol Fan said:
Tough crowd.
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#60
#60
fifties fan said:
"The vast majority" Really? I think the true believers have constructed an echo chamber that misleads them as to the desire for Gruden. None of the fans I've spoken to are excited at the prospect. QB coach, offensive consultant? OK. HC, meh.
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Well this echo chamber has national coverage. His threads may be the busiest on the internet. I’d say it’s safe to say the VAST majority would be happy to have him. Not that the majority thinks he will come. I’m thinking it’s probably going to be Tee. With tons of $$ to put the highest paid staff in the country together. But, I’d be elated to land the white whale!
 
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#64
#64
BigOrangeTrain said:
OP thinks Gruden is not a good coach. There ya go.
Click to expand...

Which is just laughable. Five division titles and a Super Bowl?!! I’m sorry, but most coaches in the NFL don’t even win the division once or make it past the first round. Winning a Super Bowl automatically makes you elite. It’s just the truth. There have been 31 coaches to do it since 1967.
 
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#65
#65
BigOrangeTrain said:
You are free to believe whatever you wish. But if you think a guy who won 5 division titles and a Super Bwol in the NFL is a bad coach, then you know very little about coaching.

Gruden is far from an elite coach. But the guy can coach.
Click to expand...

I may know very little about coaching, but I know enough to not hire Gruden who is a swell likable fella who is a crappy overrated coach who is loved by his Grunenites not caring about his pitiful record. You kinda remind me of the Haslam brothers going after Schiano, no sense of talent.
 
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#67
#67
NeverWe'llSever said:
Which is just laughable. Five division titles and a Super Bowl?!! I’m sorry, but most coaches in the NFL don’t even win the division once or make it past the first round. Winning a Super Bowl automatically makes you elite. It’s just the truth. There have been 31 coaches to do it since 1967.
Click to expand...

The Detroit Lions have only won one playoff game since 1957, where do we find one of these coaches?
 
#69
#69
themoodystwo said:
I may know very little about coaching, but I know enough to not hire Gruden who is a swell likable fella who is a crappy overrated coach who is loved by his Grunenites not caring about his pitiful record. You kinda remind me of the Haslam brothers going after Schiano, no sense of talent.
Click to expand...

I am not arguing about hiring Gruden. Just pointing out your utter idiotic statement about Gruden's coaching ability. You kinda remind me of Butch Jones, a guy who is in way over his head.
 
#70
#70
DeusExMachina said:
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away......

Let me take you back a few years, but before I do allow me to say that this trip isn't going to be a short one. Therefore, if you suffer from being short on attention, or refuse to see anything other than your own point of view (seems to be a recurring thing around here)......you might not want to read this.

The year was 1998, and yours truly was 19 years old. Like all other 19 year olds, I had a lot on my mind, but first and foremost was my love for the mighty University of Tennessee, who, unbeknownst to most, would go undefeated that year and capture the first ever BCS National Championship. But, I wasn't just a fan of college football at that time, I had an NFL team as well. They had worn predominately the same colors as my beloved Big Orange, but hailed from farther south, from a city called Tampa. 1998 heralded a change for the Buccaneers, though, as the "creamsicle" uniforms were replaced by a much tougher looking combination of pewter, red, and black. Helmed by a coach which I personally was unsure of in Tony Dungy, the Buccaneers garnered my attention on Sundays, where the Vols had it on Saturday.

Fast forward three years. The year is 2002, and things weren't well on Rocky Top, as the Vols ended the season with an 8-5 record, falling to lowly Maryland in the Peach Bowl after the season. Things were equally as bad in Tampa, as Coach Dungy was sacked by general manager Rich McKay (after urging by owner Malcolm Glazer) for being "too conservative". Despite all this, Dungy left the Buccaneers as the only coach to do so with a winning overall record. McKay and Glazer then teamed up, and went out and got their man, mortgaging the future (2002/2003 first round draft picks, 2002/2004 second round draft picks and 8 million in cash) for the present. Enter head Buccaneer, Jon Gruden.

I'll be the first to admit, as a Buccaneer fan, I was overly excited for the hire of Jon Gruden. I knew that he was a young, exciting coach and had miles and miles of potential. Little did I know that that potential would very quickly manifest itself in a 12-4 record and a trip to the playoffs, where the hated Philadelphia Eagles fell before the Bucs. Super Bowl 37 came next, and with it a drubbing of the team that Gruden spurned to come to Tampa, the Oakland Raiders. Yours truly was on top of the sports world, as my excitement on January 26, 2003 win was only slightly less than it was on January 4, 1999. However, events would soon transpire that would call into question the ability of the head Buccaneer, things that I will now (in an effort to shorten this tome) explain.

I've been hyper critical of anyone on this site of anyone who wants Jon Gruden as the next head coach of the Tennessee Volunteers. I've been put on ignore, I've been called names, I've been told that I'm the one that's being willfully ignorant, so on and so forth. The man has a .541 career record, yet some on here are willing to crown him the second coming of Robert Reese Neyland and hand him the keys to the city of Knoxville instead of a contract. I actually saw someone just yesterday make the comment that "Bill Parcells has a .569 career record". Parcells was a head coach in the NFL for 23 years, Gruden was a head coach for 10. The basis of comparison is slightly skewed on this one due to the length of time worked.

I've made the comment time and again that Gruden was 45-54 after the Super Bowl, despite having a first ballot hall of fame defensive coordinator calling the other side of the ball and despite having a top 10 defense for 6 out of the 7 years he was head coach. "But salary cap, but ownership, but the general manager (despite it being his buddy from Oakland, Bruce Allen from 2004-on), but blah blah blah". None of these seemed to effect the defensive side of the ball. Just saying. Only the offense, which Gruden played a VERY large part in, suffered and never broke the top half of the NFL in overall efficiency.

I've heard the comment "but what was Saban and Spurrier's record in the NFL before coming back to college??"......riddle me this (and no using Google, that's cheating), who were the defensive coordinators for Saban at MIA and Spurrier at WAS?? And how bad are the Dolphins and Skins to this day (to be fair, the Bucs have been pretty disgusting as well). Exactly. If you can tell me with a straight face that everything was equal between Gruden, Saban, and Spurrier......you need to be examined.

I've heard the proclamation that "all Gruden would have to do is flash his Super Bowl ring and 5* recruits would be lining up outside the stadium fighting for a chance to play for him". Nick Saban and Urban Meyer have both won national championships, yet they still frequently miss out on getting 5* players. Oh, and there's the fact that Gruden has already failed with far better talent, yet he's suddenly going to be a world-beater with high school talent?? :ermm:

There's also the little factoid that Gruden turned Tennessee down when Butch Jones was hired, a factoid that nobody wants to remember. There's the little factoid that never, not once, has the man come out and said "I want to coach at the University of Tennessee". Not once. He may have said some nice things, but all he's doing is using us to gain notoriety. That's it, y'all.

In closing, let me say that despite what any "insider" on here may say, I am confident that Jon Gruden will not be coaching the Vols at any point in the future. "How can you be so confident", you might ask??? I'm also confident that the administration of the University hasn't completely and utterly lost their senses, and unlike some on here, aren't willing to rename the stadium for a guy with a record that's barely over .500, and whose claim to fame is making stupid faces and reading a teleprompter. Of course, if I'm wrong, then so be it. I just won't be around to see Gruden do to the Vols what he did to the Bucs.
Click to expand...
You make 1 maybe 2 semi valid points. But the positives of Gruden as a coach, game planner, developer of QB's, motivator, innovator, and an X's and O's playmaker(still makes up plays), FAR FAR outweigh the negatives. I know by the way you talk about him I'll never sway you. But what he did with the Raiders considering what he inherited and working for Davis was remarkable. It was basically the team he built that made to the SB. IMO Malcolm Blazer had too much of his Haslam like hands in that organization. He was no Culverhouse. I could give you multiple reasons why he handcuffed JG. I followed the Bucs when I lived ther and I know football better than most people. You will see when we're playing for the east title in 2 years. You most likely applauded when they hired Doolittle and worshiped at the feet of Botchy Boy. You know SHINOLA about real football! Peace
 
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#71
#71
DeusExMachina said:
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away......

Let me take you back a few years, but before I do allow me to say that this trip isn't going to be a short one. Therefore, if you suffer from being short on attention, or refuse to see anything other than your own point of view (seems to be a recurring thing around here)......you might not want to read this.

The year was 1998, and yours truly was 19 years old. Like all other 19 year olds, I had a lot on my mind, but first and foremost was my love for the mighty University of Tennessee, who, unbeknownst to most, would go undefeated that year and capture the first ever BCS National Championship. But, I wasn't just a fan of college football at that time, I had an NFL team as well. They had worn predominately the same colors as my beloved Big Orange, but hailed from farther south, from a city called Tampa. 1998 heralded a change for the Buccaneers, though, as the "creamsicle" uniforms were replaced by a much tougher looking combination of pewter, red, and black. Helmed by a coach which I personally was unsure of in Tony Dungy, the Buccaneers garnered my attention on Sundays, where the Vols had it on Saturday.

Fast forward three years. The year is 2002, and things weren't well on Rocky Top, as the Vols ended the season with an 8-5 record, falling to lowly Maryland in the Peach Bowl after the season. Things were equally as bad in Tampa, as Coach Dungy was sacked by general manager Rich McKay (after urging by owner Malcolm Glazer) for being "too conservative". Despite all this, Dungy left the Buccaneers as the only coach to do so with a winning overall record. McKay and Glazer then teamed up, and went out and got their man, mortgaging the future (2002/2003 first round draft picks, 2002/2004 second round draft picks and 8 million in cash) for the present. Enter head Buccaneer, Jon Gruden.

I'll be the first to admit, as a Buccaneer fan, I was overly excited for the hire of Jon Gruden. I knew that he was a young, exciting coach and had miles and miles of potential. Little did I know that that potential would very quickly manifest itself in a 12-4 record and a trip to the playoffs, where the hated Philadelphia Eagles fell before the Bucs. Super Bowl 37 came next, and with it a drubbing of the team that Gruden spurned to come to Tampa, the Oakland Raiders. Yours truly was on top of the sports world, as my excitement on January 26, 2003 win was only slightly less than it was on January 4, 1999. However, events would soon transpire that would call into question the ability of the head Buccaneer, things that I will now (in an effort to shorten this tome) explain.

I've been hyper critical of anyone on this site of anyone who wants Jon Gruden as the next head coach of the Tennessee Volunteers. I've been put on ignore, I've been called names, I've been told that I'm the one that's being willfully ignorant, so on and so forth. The man has a .541 career record, yet some on here are willing to crown him the second coming of Robert Reese Neyland and hand him the keys to the city of Knoxville instead of a contract. I actually saw someone just yesterday make the comment that "Bill Parcells has a .569 career record". Parcells was a head coach in the NFL for 23 years, Gruden was a head coach for 10. The basis of comparison is slightly skewed on this one due to the length of time worked.

I've made the comment time and again that Gruden was 45-54 after the Super Bowl, despite having a first ballot hall of fame defensive coordinator calling the other side of the ball and despite having a top 10 defense for 6 out of the 7 years he was head coach. "But salary cap, but ownership, but the general manager (despite it being his buddy from Oakland, Bruce Allen from 2004-on), but blah blah blah". None of these seemed to effect the defensive side of the ball. Just saying. Only the offense, which Gruden played a VERY large part in, suffered and never broke the top half of the NFL in overall efficiency.

I've heard the comment "but what was Saban and Spurrier's record in the NFL before coming back to college??"......riddle me this (and no using Google, that's cheating), who were the defensive coordinators for Saban at MIA and Spurrier at WAS?? And how bad are the Dolphins and Skins to this day (to be fair, the Bucs have been pretty disgusting as well). Exactly. If you can tell me with a straight face that everything was equal between Gruden, Saban, and Spurrier......you need to be examined.

I've heard the proclamation that "all Gruden would have to do is flash his Super Bowl ring and 5* recruits would be lining up outside the stadium fighting for a chance to play for him". Nick Saban and Urban Meyer have both won national championships, yet they still frequently miss out on getting 5* players. Oh, and there's the fact that Gruden has already failed with far better talent, yet he's suddenly going to be a world-beater with high school talent?? :ermm:

There's also the little factoid that Gruden turned Tennessee down when Butch Jones was hired, a factoid that nobody wants to remember. There's the little factoid that never, not once, has the man come out and said "I want to coach at the University of Tennessee". Not once. He may have said some nice things, but all he's doing is using us to gain notoriety. That's it, y'all.

In closing, let me say that despite what any "insider" on here may say, I am confident that Jon Gruden will not be coaching the Vols at any point in the future. "How can you be so confident", you might ask??? I'm also confident that the administration of the University hasn't completely and utterly lost their senses, and unlike some on here, aren't willing to rename the stadium for a guy with a record that's barely over .500, and whose claim to fame is making stupid faces and reading a teleprompter. Of course, if I'm wrong, then so be it. I just won't be around to see Gruden do to the Vols what he did to the Bucs.
Click to expand...

Dilly Dilly!

And good job on drawing the delusional out of the Gruden thread!

Gruden is a lazy douche who could never hack it in the college football world. He couldn't handle the recruiting, the babysitting and the demand it takes to run a college program. He'd make a terrible college coach as he is none familiar with all the NCAA rules and has spent most of his career in the NFL or sitting behind a desk talking about the NFL.

None of that matters though as he was never a viable option.
 
#72
#72
themoodystwo said:
I may know very little about coaching, but I know enough to not hire Gruden who is a swell likable fella who is a crappy overrated coach who is loved by his Grunenites not caring about his pitiful record. You kinda remind me of the Haslam brothers going after Schiano, no sense of talent.
Click to expand...

Which NFL coaches do you consider good coaches? And please, give me more than Belichick. Without using Google to check their records, name your top 5 current NFL coaches?
 
#74
#74
themoodystwo said:
I may know very little about coaching, but I know enough to not hire Gruden who is a swell likable fella who is a crappy overrated coach who is loved by his Grunenites not caring about his pitiful record. You kinda remind me of the Haslam brothers going after Schiano, no sense of talent.
Click to expand...
There is so much drivel in your statement it doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.
 
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#75
#75
Pros and Cons about Gruden:

Pros:
1) Game planning is elite
2) Play Calling is elite
3) He's a master strategist

Cons:
1) Player development was bad when he was in Tampa. He was known for plucking game managers for his offense
2) QB developer is a myth. His project in Tampa, Bruce Gradkowski, was a complete failure.
 
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