Butch, IMO

[EODVOL]

Teams have been stacking the box for years to stop our run game. Our offense steadily improved. Look at the stats. What changed this year? Dobbs gone, read option gone, now you have hurt your run game because you replaced Dobbs with a pocket qb and had to quit running true read option ( this dummy read stuff nobody ever fell for or respected ). The run game hurt by changing to pocket qb, and the line being more relied upon to protect a pocket qb, and receivers being more relied upon to get open and catch the ball, and your end result is a terrible offensive year and butch fired.

Have we been watching the same games? The offense hasn't truly improved. It was Dobbs that bailed this offense time and time again on busted plays! Lyle didn't truly get rid of the read option, he just tried to make it work hybrid like with Dormandy. The play calling was atrocious. Can't keep the D of balance when you are running same plays all the time. We never really threw the deep ball just screen left or screen right. How many times did we test teams deep? Regardless if we completed the deep ball or not teams weren't scared cause they knew we weren't gonna throw it. All our passes were screens or sideline pass. Nothing across the middle, no slants or drags etc. Just Kelly left, Kelly right and quick screen. D coordinators didn't even have to game plan for our offense.

 

[sjt18]

You and I see a completely different football game, that's my reply to you.

Now the last part about issues running deeper, well maybe there is something to this. The reports about lying and broken promises, I don't know if true or not. But, either way, you gotta be a man of your word. Hopefully that stuff isn't true

Apparently we do. I watch guys who play slow and like they're worried about doing something wrong rather than playing good, aggressive, fundamental football. Jones is like the kid who aces every written chemistry exam but can't do any of the lab experiments.... well maybe more like the kid that makes D's on the exams and can't do the experiments.

Regardless, he's one of the worst football coaches I've seen in CFB. His used car salesman tactics enabled him to land some good players who made him look MUCH better than he ever was. That's why it was important when we argued about even the two 9-3 seasons being underachievements of his talent. Raw player talent made up for his incompetence as a coach.

Once the players began to see through the deceptions and slogans... with no real results to show for it... he was done. Done as a recruiter and not trusted by the team.

 

[volsportsfan]

Have we been watching the same games? The offense hasn't truly improved. It was Dobbs that bailed this offense time and time again on busted plays! Lyle didn't truly get rid of the read option, he just tried to make it work hybrid like with Dormandy. The play calling was atrocious. Can't keep the D of balance when you are running same plays all the time. We never really threw the deep ball just screen left or screen right. How many times did we test teams deep? Regardless if we completed the deep ball or not teams weren't scared cause they knew we weren't gonna throw it. All our passes were screens or sideline pass. Nothing across the middle, no slants or drags etc. Just Kelly left, Kelly right and quick screen. D coordinators didn't even have to game plan for our offense.

Who recruited Dobbs? Who developed Dobbs? Who was the coach in which the offense steadily improved over his first 4 years?

Look butch gets the blame both ways. You can't blame butch for this year and then not give him credit for previous years.

Like I said, imo, he decided this year to try to fit his offensive abilities/knowledge around a pocket qb and it got him fired. It looked terrible this year just like it did year one with Worley

 

[sjt18]

Teams have been stacking the box for years to stop our run game. Our offense steadily improved. Look at the stats.

Yes. Look at them. As Dobbs learned to work around Jones, the O got better. Outside of Dobbs... no one else has stayed healthy long enough to do that in part because Jones has no clue. What he teaches OL's just doesn't work.

There were early reports that the OL Jones inherited from Dooley basically refused to do things Jones' way. These were NFL level players who had been well coached by Chaney and Pittman. There were other reports that former players attending practice asked "what the H311 they were doing with the OL".

Five years later and you're still trying to excuse him?

What changed this year? Dobbs gone, read option gone, now you have hurt your run game because you replaced Dobbs with a pocket qb and had to quit running true read option ( this dummy read stuff nobody ever fell for or respected ). The run game hurt by changing to pocket qb, and the line being more relied upon to protect a pocket qb, and receivers being more relied upon to get open and catch the ball, and your end result is a terrible offensive year and butch fired.

Nothing really changed except that Dobbs wasn't around to bail Jones out when his "system" broke down... which was at least 50% of the time. There are few players that can do that... and none that should have to. A "system" should put players in a position to succeed. Jones' system never did. When players succeeded, it was in spite of his system.

Dobbs wasn't known as a running QB as a recruit. JG isn't a running QB. McBride is the closest thing to a running QB that Jones has recruited. QD isn't. S Jones wasn't. All would be considered "mobile"... but Dobbs' running was a surprise.

Think about this. Jones managed to suppress the talent of Kamara, Hurd, and Malone. You really have to be marvelously incompetent to do that.

 

[Advol]

The story on CBJ will be similar to CPF. Will other schools come after him to Coach?? That will tell the tale....

 

[volsportsfan]

Yes. Look at them. As Dobbs learned to work around Jones, the O got better. Outside of Dobbs... no one else has stayed healthy long enough to do that in part because Jones has no clue. What he teaches OL's just doesn't work.

There were early reports that the OL Jones inherited from Dooley basically refused to do things Jones' way. These were NFL level players who had been well coached by Chaney and Pittman. There were other reports that former players attending practice asked "what the H311 they were doing with the OL".

Five years later and you're still trying to excuse him?



Nothing really changed except that Dobbs wasn't around to bail Jones out when his "system" broke down... which was at least 50% of the time. There are few players that can do that... and none that should have to. A "system" should put players in a position to succeed. Jones' system never did. When players succeeded, it was in spite of his system.

Dobbs wasn't known as a running QB as a recruit. JG isn't a running QB. McBride is the closest thing to a running QB that Jones has recruited. QD isn't. S Jones wasn't. All would be considered "mobile"... but Dobbs' running was a surprise.

Think about this. Jones managed to suppress the talent of Kamara, Hurd, and Malone. You really have to be marvelously incompetent to do that.

Running, dual threat, mobile, all the same. Dormady is the only man on the roster that has little running ability and he got the call. Bad choice butch.

Yes, I'll give you that Dobbs' running ability was top notch. We may never have a qb that good as a runner again. That being said, you don't have to be able to run like Dobbs to take advantage of read option. But, you gotta be better than Dormady.

 

[volsportsfan]

The story on CBJ will be similar to CPF. Will other schools come after him to Coach?? That will tell the tale....

Yes, he will be hired. Probably somewhere like Idaho, Wyoming, somewhere div 1 but where expectations aren't through the roof like UT. IMO

 

[Other_Guy]

Butch was only here LAST here because Dobbs was the quarterback. Think results closer to this season without him.

 

[sjt18]

Running, dual threat, mobile, all the same.

No they aren't. Rather than arguing with me... educate yourself.

Dormady is the only man on the roster that has little running ability and he got the call. Bad choice butch.

Jones didn't make the choice. He said he was going to have a "competition" fully expecting JG to develop mentally and win the job. He didn't. Then rather than modifying the O to suit QD... he sacrificed the season and ultimately his job by stubbornly refusing to change the system or accept the outcome.

There are MANY teams that run a west coast spread without the QB run being a big part of it. UGA runs it at times. Bama runs it. FSU runs it. Leach runs a spread O with a pocket passer. But to do it... you have to develop your OL's correctly and you have to change your run game too.

Jones was too stubborn to let someone else change it... and lacked the talent to do it himself.

Yes, I'll give you that Dobbs' running ability was top notch. We may never have a qb that good as a runner again. That being said, you don't have to be able to run like Dobbs to take advantage of read option. But, you gotta be better than Dormady.

You mean like JG?

:lolabove:

JG has GREAT physical attributes for a passer... but he isn't a spread option QB. Not close. He's not that fast, powerful, or quick. He doesn't take hits well and wouldn't last a whole game trying to do what Dobbs did.

 

[TNnative]

First of all I want to say up front, Butch got fired because he wasn't good enough. I want to dive a little deeper into this though with a quick thought.

Butch would still be here, we would have won at least 6, and would be coaching here next year, if he hadn't went to more of a pocket qb scheme. Dormady, the receivers, and this line were not ready ( Butch's fault ). Butch should have stuck to what he knows and does best. Run the ball, with read option and a true running threat ( S.Jones or JG should have been the starter and practicing Butch's read option, conservative, run lean offense from the very start of spring ball ).

Part of me wishes he was still here because the chances of getting a championship caliber coach seem to be slim these days. How did Clemson luck into Dabo?? Geez, maybe we can hire someone like that who is not proven and he turns out to be great. Chances are slim though. Hopefully we get gruden or Mullen.

Anyway, I just wish Jones had stuck with what he knows and does best. He spent all spring ball, all fall ball, and half the season trying to run an offense he simply doesn't know how to teach well enough. He was at a fork in the road offensively and chose wrong. He chose wrong because he wasn't quite good enough. Just, my opinion.

OK, you said it. I hope you feel better.

Enough of the freakin what ifs though. Woulda shoulda coulda don't matter, he Didn't is all that remains.

Nothing to see here - YouTube

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

The story on CBJ will be similar to CPF. Will other schools come after him to Coach?? That will tell the tale....

Jones got an unearned reputation as a great recruiter because of the resources UT afforded him along with a few great in state classes and legacy recruits.

Someone, somewhere will buy this line, eat up his asinine catch phrases, and give him a shot.

I personally look forward to him getting another job so I can pull against him.

 

[BJWeeks]

Butch Jones was the worst coach in Tennessee football history. He sjould hav3 been fired last year

 

[Boca Vol]

I said prior to the season that Butch was safe barring a huge off-the-field incident or if he lost the locker-room and the season tanked. Welp...it happened.

I was never a fan of Butch Jones...just too cornballish for me. But I don't think he's deserved the venom being spewed. It's not a good look for the fanbase but it is what it is.

 

[KBVol]

First of all I want to say up front, Butch got fired because he wasn't good enough. I want to dive a little deeper into this though with a quick thought.

Butch would still be here, we would have won at least 6, and would be coaching here next year, if he hadn't went to more of a pocket qb scheme. Dormady, the receivers, and this line were not ready ( Butch's fault ). Butch should have stuck to what he knows and does best. Run the ball, with read option and a true running threat ( S.Jones or JG should have been the starter and practicing Butch's read option, conservative, run lean offense from the very start of spring ball ).

Part of me wishes he was still here because the chances of getting a championship caliber coach seem to be slim these days. How did Clemson luck into Dabo?? Geez, maybe we can hire someone like that who is not proven and he turns out to be great. Chances are slim though. Hopefully we get gruden or Mullen.

Anyway, I just wish Jones had stuck with what he knows and does best. He spent all spring ball, all fall ball, and half the season trying to run an offense he simply doesn't know how to teach well enough. He was at a fork in the road offensively and chose wrong. He chose wrong because he wasn't quite good enough. Just, my opinion.

You wish THE guy who drove this program into the ditch, who wrecked the program’s culture, who is directly responsible for the worst season in program history that was capped off with a blowout home loss/beat down to a 4-win Vandy team was STILL HERE.

You got issues dude. Stfu and gtho.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

First of all I want to say up front, Butch got fired because he wasn't good enough. I want to dive a little deeper into this though with a quick thought.

Butch would still be here, we would have won at least 6, and would be coaching here next year, if he hadn't went to more of a pocket qb scheme. Dormady, the receivers, and this line were not ready ( Butch's fault ). Butch should have stuck to what he knows and does best. Run the ball, with read option and a true running threat ( S.Jones or JG should have been the starter and practicing Butch's read option, conservative, run lean offense from the very start of spring ball ).

Part of me wishes he was still here because the chances of getting a championship caliber coach seem to be slim these days. How did Clemson luck into Dabo?? Geez, maybe we can hire someone like that who is not proven and he turns out to be great. Chances are slim though. Hopefully we get gruden or Mullen.

Anyway, I just wish Jones had stuck with what he knows and does best. He spent all spring ball, all fall ball, and half the season trying to run an offense he simply doesn't know how to teach well enough. He was at a fork in the road offensively and chose wrong. He chose wrong because he wasn't quite good enough. Just, my opinion.

Jones is no longer here because he has no scheme other than the bits and pieces he stole from Kelly over the years.

He wasn't smart enough to create his own brand and it's little wonder that it caught up with him as UT was his longest tenure at any school. He bought into his own success at CMU and Cincy and was too stubborn to bring in a legit offensive coordinator that could have enhanced things for the offense.

He also shot himself in the foot by recruiting star ratings instead of players like Dobbs who could bail him out with their athleticism. The only QB on this roster that remotely offers a running threat is McBride and he was rightly 3rd string until injuries hit.

 

[volsportsfan]

Jones is no longer here because he has no scheme other than the bits and pieces he stole from Kelly over the years.

He wasn't smart enough to create his own brand and it's little wonder that it caught up with him as UT was his longest tenure at any school. He bought into his own success at CMU and Cincy and was too stubborn to bring in a legit offensive coordinator that could have enhanced things for the offense.

He also shot himself in the foot by recruiting star ratings instead of players like Dobbs who could bail him out with their athleticism. The only QB on this roster that remotely offers a running threat is McBride and he was rightly 3rd string until injuries hit.

To be fair, coaching is stealing. They all copy and steal. Matter of fact, we all do. We all, if using good judgement, learn from others and from things passed down.

I agree that he wasn't smart enough as far as developing an offense that can execute the pass game. The pass game has been a huge weakness for Butch throughout his time here.