Dan Mullen thread (merged)

[ProudVOLfan]

He'd be recruiting higher caliber athletes to Tennessee. He has the same record as Butch in the SEC but with about half the resources and in a much tougher division

:good!:
Not sure why this so hard for some people to grasp but it is. The guy obviously isnt the best coach in the league but I think he could do a lot with the talent UT recruits. JMO tho

 

[JMSqb11]

Lol. Well Mon and Tues you were pushing Kelly. Thursday and Friday its been Mullen. Who you got tomorrow? Lombardi riding in to Neyland on a unicorn?

I have always said that Kelly is my number 1 pick. Mullen has been my second. Since you are apparently done with the character assassination of Chip Kelly and have no moved on to Mullen, I will state the facts to refute senseless claims.

 

[fade route]

Mullen had his team ranked #1 for a few weeks two years ago - Butch can barely sniff the top 25 these days with superior talent.

"But Mullen had Dak Prescott! Without him they wouldn't have been near as a good"

Yeah, and Prescott was barely an afterthought coming out of high school. What does that say about Mullen's ability to develop talent?

Compare it to Butch's ability to squander it.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I think Mullen has a smart agent. Half those interviews may or may not have happened. Just a way to get a raise at MSU.

Yep, absolutely possible. But I think he actually did interview at Miami, Oregon and Penn State, and wanted to get an interview at Georgia (don't know if he ever did).

So if he's actually meeting ADs to be interviewed, it's probably--in those cases--gone beyond just angling for a raise from Miss St.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

:good!:
Not sure why this so hard for some people to grasp but it is. The guy obviously isnt the best coach in the league but I think he could do a lot with the talent UT recruits. JMO tho

Tennessee doesn't recruit the talent for him. He would have to. Dan Mullen. It would be on him. You know, to recruit really well.

The guy who can't recruit nearly as well as Butch, though both are sitting in states that have to reach into Georgia, Florida, and other places for better than half their talent.

No idea why folks keep giving him credit for Butch's recruiting success. It's not like top-10 recruiting classes are a guarantee at Tennessee. Just look at our Dark Ages to prove that.

 

[JMSqb11]

Tennessee doesn't recruit the talent for him. He would have to. Dan Mullen. It would be on him. You know, to recruit really well.

The guy who can't recruit nearly as well as Butch, though both are sitting in states that have to reach into Georgia, Florida, and other places for better than half their talent.

No idea why folks keep giving him credit for Butch's recruiting success. It's not like top-10 recruiting classes are a guarantee at Tennessee. Just look at our Dark Ages to prove that.

Yes they are. You just have to keep relationships with high school coaches decent.

Dooley really did a number on people's intelligence here. The reason Butch had to work his ass off from the start in recruiting is because he essentially had to build the relationships from ground zero. That is not the case anymore.

Also, you're insane if you think that Miss State has the appeal to build a pipeline of 4 and 5 stars to Georgia and Florida that competes with Bama, UF and the other Florida schools for that matter, UGA, Auburn, and Tennessee.

 

[90 Vol]

It’s not cherry picking. It’s an objective look at the numbers. The numbers don’t lie. He’s the Butch Jones of the SEC West.

Agreed, numbers don't lie.

Tennessee's avg. recruiting ranking over the past 5 years is 12. Mississippi State's avg. over the same time period is 26. So since numbers don't lie, this means that Mullen is performing at the same level as Butch with less talent in a tougher division.

 

[ProudVOLfan]

Tennessee doesn't recruit the talent for him. He would have to. Dan Mullen. It would be on him. You know, to recruit really well.

The guy who can't recruit nearly as well as Butch, though both are sitting in states that have to reach into Georgia, Florida, and other places for better than half their talent.

No idea why folks keep giving him credit for Butch's recruiting success. It's not like top-10 recruiting classes are a guarantee at Tennessee. Just look at our Dark Ages to prove that.

Give him Butchs' resources and facilities and then we can talk. You seriously going to tell me that you dont think Mullen could recruit better here than he does at MSU?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Yes they are. You just have to keep relationships with high school coaches decent.

Dooley really did a number on people's intelligence here. The reason Butch had to work his ass off from the start in recruiting is because he essentially had to build the relationships from ground zero. That is not the case anymore.

Also, you're insane if you think that Miss State has the appeal to build a pipeline of 4 and 5 stars to Georgia and Florida that competes with Bama, UF and the other Florida schools for that matter, UGA, Auburn, and Tennessee.

You know what, JMSqb, I hope you never have to figure out how wrong you are by taking Butch's recruiting success for granted.

Tennessee doesn't fall out of bed and recruit Top-10 classes. No school does. No, not even Bama (it's Saban's strength, not the program's). Recruiting is an intense competition, at which some coaches are better, and others are worse.

All objective indicators say Mullen is on the worse side. And would bring that "worseness" to Tennessee.

But I hope you never have to learn that first-hand.

 

[Sarms58]

Agreed, numbers don't lie.

Tennessee's avg. recruiting ranking over the past 5 years is 12. Mississippi State's avg. over the same time period is 26. So since numbers don't lie, this means that Mullen is performing at the same level as Butch with less talent in a tougher division.

Or that people put too much stock in recruiting rankings...

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Give him Butchs' resources and facilities and then we can talk. You seriously going to tell me that you dont think Mullen could recruit better here than he does at MSU?

I'm seriously going to tell you that the way he recruits now, he will recruit at Tennessee.

The recruits don't come for the facilities or financial statements. They come for a chance to play the game at the next level, to learn under great coaches, and to get a shot at the NFL by playing on big SEC (or B10, or ACC, etc) stages.

 

[VolNRaleighNC]

Those of you riding Mullen's leg like a chihuahua on a stuffed animal can just relax and have a Snicker's bar.

If anything we will hire from outside the current SEC coaches. It will be an absolute home run hire or an "up and comer" flop. My bet is with this administration it will be the latter.

#WelcometothenewlesserUT
#Mediocrityrules
#Whoneedschampionships

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Agreed, numbers don't lie.

Tennessee's avg. recruiting ranking over the past 5 years is 12. Mississippi State's avg. over the same time period is 26. So since numbers don't lie, this means that Mullen is performing at the same level as Butch with less talent in a tougher division.

It also tells you that Mullen is not as good a recruiter.

He won't magically get better just by moving to Knoxville.

 

[Behr]

He's not better IMO that would justify getting rid of Butch. Butch does 1000 things right with the community, school, recruiting, and team. He needs to fix the one or two things on gameday that brings the black cloud over him and roll over teams like I think he can do.

Just trying to be as logical as I can here. Not trying to stir the pot.

Go back to 2013 and we just fired Dooley. Knowing what we know now, Hart says "Behr, I'm gonna hire either Butch Jones or Dan Mullen, who you want"? I'd pick Mullen.

Fast forward to 2017 and we just fired Butch, or he left on his own. I haven't a clue who I'd be pulling really hard for, but it ain't Dan Mullen.

What do I know? Not much, but that's my opinion.

 

[JMSqb11]

You know what, JMSqb, I hope you never have to figure out how wrong you are by taking Butch's recruiting success for granted.

Tennessee doesn't fall out of bed and recruit Top-10 classes. No school does. No, not even Bama (it's Saban's strength, not the program's). Recruiting is an intense competition, at which some coaches are better, and others are worse.

All objective indicators say Mullen is on the worse side. And would bring that "worseness" to Tennessee.

But I hope you never have to learn that first-hand.

And once again you are wrong. For Butch, he does have to work his ass off recruiting because his coaching doesn't make it easy for him to recruit with on field performance.

And going back to Mullen, since he has obviously performed well above the norm at Miss. State with recruiting classes in the bottom half of the SEC, he would thrive here because recruiting would be easier here than Starkville. Even Stevie Wonder could see that.

Fact, recruiting is easier when you have more resources and competent coaching performance. Butch has 1 of those in his backpocket and that is resources.

Mullen, on the other hand, has coaching, but no resources and still wins well above the normal average. That means he coaches and develops players constantly. We don't have that right now.

So if you have a coach who can develop, who has credential for being a competent coach, and pair him with the best resources in the country, recruiting will be much easier.

You obviously hate Mullen so much that you are trying to discredit his job performance in Starkville.

 

[golfballs]

Everyone outside of Knoxville with established college football credibility disagrees with you. But you're a Tennessee fan, so you know better.

Ha. Everyone WITH "credibility"

 

[JMSqb11]

It also tells you that Mullen is not as good a recruiter.

He won't magically get better just by moving to Knoxville.

Once again, you are being very ignorant to think recruiting to Knoxville is the same as recruiting to Starkville......

 

[DaUndergroundMan]

I know its just trolling. No one that actually watches football games, with eyeballs connected to brains, could ever truly believe Butch is equal to or better than Mullen.

But heres a dare for you, if you are for real... Call Finebaum today and present your case to them, id like to see what kind of response youd get.

You talk about being objective, ask a guy who's neither a vol or msu fan.

I'll be listening, if anyone has the balls to do that, it will be the topic of the show for at least an hour or so. And it will be fun.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

You obviously hate Mullen so much that you are trying to discredit his job performance in Starkville.

Heh, I don't hate Dan Mullen at all. I actually kind of like the guy. Seems personable, and is a good football coach. Seems to treat his players and staff well.

But he's not the right guy for Tennessee. Period.

TL;DR: Your straw man argument didn't work.

 

[golfballs]

Mullen had his team ranked #1 for a few weeks two years ago - Butch can barely sniff the top 25 these days with superior talent.

"But Mullen had Dak Prescott! Without him they wouldn't have been near as a good"

Yeah, and Prescott was barely an afterthought coming out of high school. What does that say about Mullen's ability to develop talent?

Compare it to Butch's ability to squander it.

#1 for a few weeks. Do you get a trophy for that?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I know its just trolling. No one that actually watches football games, with eyeballs connected to brains, could ever truly believe Butch is equal to or better than Mullen.

But heres a dare for you, if you are for real... Call Finebaum today and present your case to them, id like to see what kind of response youd get.

You talk about being objective, ask a guy who's neither a vol or msu fan.

I'll be listening, if anyone has the balls to do that, it will be the topic of the show for at least an hour or so. And it will be fun.

You quoted no one.

So who are you talking to?

I don't remember anyone in the thread saying Butch is a better head coach than Mullen. Maybe I just missed it.

So ... who are you talking to?

 

[Sarms58]

I think Dan Mullen is a good coach...just think the odds of getting him here are slightly below the odds of getting Bear Bryant to coach here...but just slightly...

 

[KBVol]

Dan Mullen is definitely overrated. If he's an upgrade over Butch, it's marginal

Why is he overrated? 64-42 at what is considered an armpit SEC program. Had the #1 ranked team in the country for a couple weeks a few years ago..... at Mississippi State! Developed Dak Prescott and has now done similar work with Nick Fitzgerald who is the best qb in the conference. Just beat a very, very talented LSU team 37-7.

He doesn't have near the resources in Starkville nor the natural advantages that we have in Knoxville as an SEC blue blood program and traditional power. Last Miss State coach who had anything near the success Mullen has had in his tenure there was Jackie Sherrill in the 1990s, who's overall record was 74-76-2.

I'm not advocating that we fire Butch and try to hire Mullen....but let's be real here. Mullen is a hot commodity right now and is considered a pretty highly rated head coach, most seem to think he's the 2nd best head coach in the SEC right now....while I'd wager most think Jones is bottom tier in the SEC and not a top 50-60 coach in the country.

 

[JMSqb11]

You quoted no one.

So who are you talking to?

I don't remember anyone in the thread saying Butch is a better head coach than Mullen. Maybe I just missed it.

So ... who are you talking to?

You're saying Butch is equal to or better than Mullen by saying Mullen isn't the right guy for the job even though his job performance says otherwise.

Sooooo, which is it?

 

[golfballs]

Agreed, numbers don't lie.

Tennessee's avg. recruiting ranking over the past 5 years is 12. Mississippi State's avg. over the same time period is 26. So since numbers don't lie, this means that Mullen is performing at the same level as Butch with less talent in a tougher division.

and given the margin for error in recruiting rankings I'd say the difference is negligible.

besides, it's not like Mississippi is lacking in talent