Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

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#9,651
#9,651
BruinVol said:
Interesting that before the current coordinators were hired we played really well in the first half. CJJ defenses were very well prepared and Debord scored nearly every first drive in 2015. It's been the last 2 years that the teams Havnt come out of the gates well.
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Debord was here last year.
 
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#9,653
#9,653
jjay2518 said:
Why would you not buy it? It's already common knowledge that he wouldn't let him pick assistants or change terminology when he was hired. Who knows what else he's micromanaged.
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He's as big of micro manager as there is. Which is why things are the way they are. Dools was the same way except his total focus was on the stuff that didn't matter. Butch's total focus is on controlling his world, which includes the stuff that does matter. The end result will be the same.
 
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#9,656
#9,656
Butch will finesse his way to 8-4 win a bowl game convincingly and be the coach next year nothing to see here. Can't wait until we have an elite coach if that ever happens.
 
#9,658
#9,658
I tend to be optimistic, so I totally understand those on here who say things like, "let's see how the season plays out" and, "if we beat Georgia we could still win the East." I really get it...those things could, theoretically, happen.

But it's not going to. Butch is in at least his 3rd year where winning the East is, at a minimum, a reasonable expectation. We haven't even come close.

So, I'm inclined to agree with the pessimistic bunch.

1. Dobbs is, indeed, not walking back through that door. He alone turned some losses into wins, and turned a lot of bad plays into neutral or positive plays.

2. Jones isn't going to out-coach anybody. I believe someone in here said that he seemed to change after 2015, and I have to agree. The 2013 UGA game was as gutsy/ballsy of a performance by a head coach as we've seen in a looooooong time. And that sort of performance has never been repeated. Maybe blowing the big leads really did "break" him.

3. Why should we expect player development to improve? We have some really good players that are never put into a position to excel. Good coaches showcase a player's strengths. It's almost like we try to keep our player's skills/strengths a secret.

4. Jones is too wrapped up in his "system" (if that's what you want to call it). It doesn't work inside the 20, and he doesn't adapt to a short field.

5. A caller on a show this morning made this point, and I'd never really thought about it. When a new player comes in and has high expectations, most of the time they are brought along slowly. They get a little bit of game time so that they can "adjust to the speed of the college game." And when that player matures and starts to really have some good performances, we are told "the game is slowing down for them." I've never considered that dynamic would affect a coach, but it really seems like it applies. The game never slows down for Jones. Last week, I watched the 2016 Florida game. Everytime I've watched it, I've always been bothered by the end of the game. Jones calls the infamous timeout with about 5 seconds left and has the players and CZA huddled around him. The huddle looked like chaos. Butch is screaming something to the players, then he asks where someone is (I can't tell who), and Azzani starts frantically spinning around trying to also find whoever it is. That huddle should have been relaxed, inspired, fun, celebratory. Instead, (and even though it was impossible) it looked like a bad outcome was still possible. I know that was a very lengthy way to make the point, but it's just one example of the game being too fast for Jones.

I'm out on him. I hope for the best...I hope we win every game. We'll see.
 
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#9,660
#9,660
BruinVol said:
All sanity has been lost here. This program is going to be very very very very different when Butch Jones leaves it that when DD left it. Comedy around here.
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I think he means by losing their jobs- not that the program is in a similar situation.
 
#9,663
#9,663
McGeesPub said:
And Butch has shown zero progress into turning in to one.
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This is why I think you make a change now, put Scott in charge, and lets win some damn ball games. We can just take our time with the HC search, and it gives us a chance to see if Scott can get it done.
 
#9,665
#9,665
millst987 said:
This is why I think you make a change now, put Scott in charge, and lets win some damn ball games. We can just take our time with the HC search, and it gives us a chance to see if Scott can get it done.
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Scott should be the main one getting the criticism this week. No idea why he is getting a pass
 
#9,666
#9,666
Volnerd said:
Interesting perspective from Mark Bradley of the AJC in this mornings paper:

At game-planning, Butch Jones is the worst coach in the history of humankind. Does Tennessee ever take the field and do what it intends? Does it even show up before halftime? The Vols are gifted enough to wad up their alleged script and improvise their way back into games, but this remains a misguided aggregation that will win nothing of consequence.
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Yep - we look like garbage until the natural talent of the players takes over.
 
#9,667
#9,667
BruinVol said:
Scott should be the main one getting the criticism this week. No idea why he is getting a pass
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I think he should be criticized but at the end of the day Butch allowed those calls to happen. Scott is also handicapped in what he can do, due to poor QB play.
 
#9,668
#9,668
BruinVol said:
Scott should be the main one getting the criticism this week. No idea why he is getting a pass
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I wonder if Scott would have installed a heavy goal line package with Butch not being in charge? Butch doesn't let anybody mess with his offense.
 
#9,669
#9,669
Chuckie said:
I tend to be optimistic, so I totally understand those on here who say things like, "let's see how the season plays out" and, "if we beat Georgia we could still win the East." I really get it...those things could, theoretically, happen.

But it's not going to. Butch is in at least his 3rd year where winning the East is, at a minimum, a reasonable expectation. We haven't even come close.

So, I'm inclined to agree with the pessimistic bunch.

1. Dobbs is, indeed, not walking back through that door. He alone turned some losses into wins, and turned a lot of bad plays into neutral or positive plays.

2. Jones isn't going to out-coach anybody. I believe someone in here said that he seemed to change after 2015, and I have to agree. The 2013 UGA game was as gutsy/ballsy of a performance by a head coach as we've seen in a looooooong time. And that sort of performance has never been repeated. Maybe blowing the big leads really did "break" him.

3. Why should we expect player development to improve? We have some really good players that are never put into a position to excel. Good coaches showcase a player's strengths. It's almost like we try to keep our player's skills/strengths a secret.

4. Jones is too wrapped up in his "system" (if that's what you want to call it). It doesn't work inside the 20, and he doesn't adapt to a short field.

5. A caller on a show this morning made this point, and I'd never really thought about it. When a new player comes in and has high expectations, most of the time they are brought along slowly. They get a little bit of game time so that they can "adjust to the speed of the college game." And when that player matures and starts to really have some good performances, we are told "the game is slowing down for them." I've never considered that dynamic would affect a coach, but it really seems like it applies. The game never slows down for Jones. Last week, I watched the 2016 Florida game. Everytime I've watched it, I've always been bothered by the end of the game. Jones calls the infamous timeout with about 5 seconds left and has the players and CZA huddled around him. The huddle looked like chaos. Butch is screaming something to the players, then he asks where someone is (I can't tell who), and Azzani starts frantically spinning around trying to also find whoever it is. That huddle should have been relaxed, inspired, fun, celebratory. Instead, (and even though it was impossible) it looked like a bad outcome was still possible. I know that was a very lengthy way to make the point, but it's just one example of the game being too fast for Jones.

I'm out on him. I hope for the best...I hope we win every game. We'll see.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of your points, but I am not sure that your last example is great. I have watched that sequence again too. The players are talking and celebrating, and both CBJ and Azzani are calling for "Mike" (Debord). Azzani had taken his headset off, and they were looking for the next play call. This is what made me think that Butch truly doesn't call plays because they were looking for the call from Debord. But CBJ can certainly provide his input through the headset.
 
#9,670
#9,670
millst987 said:
I wonder if Scott would have installed a heavy goal line package with Butch not being in charge? Butch doesn't let anybody mess with his offense.
Click to expand...

I think it has been clear that Scott has made an impact with scheme. He used a lot more two TE sets but not the time we needed it.
 
#9,671
#9,671
To be honest I'm too depressed about the whole thing to even comment on it. Maybe later in the week...maybe not.
 
#9,672
#9,672
BruinVol said:
I think it has been clear that Scott has made an impact with scheme. He used a lot more two TE sets but not the time we needed it.
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I actually love what he has done with our offense. I might be in the minority here, but he called a good game other than the redzone. Dormady threw some bad balls and hurt us. His red zone efficiency has been superb until the UF game as well.
 
#9,673
#9,673
millst987 said:
I actually love what he has done with our offense. I might be in the minority here, but he called a good game other than the redzone. Dormady threw some bad balls and hurt us. His red zone efficiency has been superb until the UF game as well.
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Yea I am not down on him either I just think if you are criticizing the first and goal it starts with him. That's my only complaint and I don't think it is as bad as this board seems to act about it
 
#9,674
#9,674
Kristy* said:
Between the 10 yard line and endzone, whatever makes the most sense, LS does the opposite.
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I wondered if he was thinking of that LSU/Florida game goal line stance last year?

The thing is, our coaches should have seen the Florida defense was obviously gassed.. That was what was so frustrating. I'm thinking Kelly or even a fresh Chandler could have gotten through there.
 
#9,675
#9,675
BruinVol said:
Yea I am not down on him either I just think if you are criticizing the first and goal it starts with him. That's my only complaint and I don't think it is as bad as this board seems to act about it
Click to expand...

I did see shotgun on first and goal at the one yesterday in the NFL...but they ran it and scored.
 
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