Paul Finebaum

[TNJOKER]

When Saban came to Alabama, he'd already won a national title at an SEC school (LSU). It was pretty apparent that he would improve Alabama's program. 4 national titles in 10 years? Not sure even the most delusional Bammers would have called for that.

Again. True. He was a statistical luke warm coach until he coached at lsu. My point is.. He had been coaching since the late 80's, he has had PLENTY of time to figure out the college football scene. Jones has only been on the table since Saban took over bammer.. Literally. Give Jones time..imo.. Unless he majorly screws up.. I.e he makes it to the playoffs and blows it.. Then i will concede in saying he sucks as a coach.

 

[99bubble]

Again. True. He was a statistical luke warm coach until he coached at lsu. My point is.. He had been coaching since the late 80's, he has had PLENTY of time to figure out the college football scene. Jones has only been on the table since Saban took over bammer.. Literally. Give Jones time..imo.. Unless he majorly screws up.. I.e he makes it to the playoffs and blows it.. Then i will concede in saying he sucks as a coach.

That's because he didn't learn to cheat until getting to the sec. Now he is on another level because of all the cheating they do. Until they are busted or he quits they are a tough out. Really wish we could have finished them off at their place two years ago.

 

[butchna]

True. Point was up until the first NC season at lsu. He was (statistically) a luke warm coach.

Totally agree. Made that same point before. So you're saying he didn't have it all figured out immediately with the first staff he hired?

 

[81Orange]

Finebaum is exactly right. Saban's mess was closer to Butch's than you think. It is easy to forget now but Alabama was one of the great laughingstocks of college football from the mid 90s up until the mid 2000s. He took over a program that was coming off probation, still had scars to its image from the Mike Price debacle, etc. Alabama was not a supremely talented squad when Saban took over. Butch is just about one-tenth the coach Saban is, that's the biggest difference.

As far as "contending for the East" I suppose it depends on your definition of "contending." We failed to control our own destiny for the East crown after October 29 last year with 4 games left in the regular season. We will could have still gotten in after that but needed help. Is that "contending?" I can see it being argued both ways.

I agree with this except hat UT was in a deep financial hole that prevented Butch from hiring the staff he needed the first three years. Also Butch had the title 9 issues and some really bad luck on the injuries.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Again. True. He was a statistical luke warm coach until he coached at lsu. My point is.. He had been coaching since the late 80's, he has had PLENTY of time to figure out the college football scene. Jones has only been on the table since Saban took over bammer.. Literally. Give Jones time..imo.. Unless he majorly screws up.. I.e he makes it to the playoffs and blows it.. Then i will concede in saying he sucks as a coach.

At some point we need to ice a game on offense by throwing the ball or just blow everybody out and call it a day.

I don't see him blowing anymore games. 119 and 120 were great learning years for our program. 119 tought us don't relax with a lead and blow it, 120 tought us don't relax on scrub teams and blow it and maybe not to be so loose with the ball.

 

[LA Vol]

I agree with this except hat UT was in a deep financial hole that prevented Butch from hiring the staff he needed the first three years. Also Butch had the title 9 issues and some really bad luck on the injuries.

CBJ hired the staff he wanted. He replaced every coach at UT and handpicked his own people. UT gave CBJ and his assistants pay increases and paid buyouts to the dismissed coaches-- some mitigated by the coaches quickly finding jobs elsewhere.

 

[zeppelin128]

I saw on 247 that Finebaum is backing off his criticisms this morning. Weasel.

 

[05_never_again]

I agree with this except hat UT was in a deep financial hole that prevented Butch from hiring the staff he needed the first three years. Also Butch had the title 9 issues and some really bad luck on the injuries.

I agree about the financial hole, but the in-game coaching ability Butch has shown in 2015 and 2016 does not inspire a lot of confidence. I think you can count those years as more "normalized" years since he had more talented teams with better coaching staffs (especially 2016) and the financial hole has been patched up.

Butch has proven himself to be a good (perhaps great) recruiter, a good administrator, and a good ambassador/representative of the program and University. His player development skills and tactical football skills leave something to be desired.

I know the 2016 team was decimated by injury, but that doesn't change the fact they still should have gone 10-2 and won the East. It was losses to bad teams after a bye week, not good teams earlier in the year, that cost them that. The handling of the Hurd situation was a disaster and cost them the South Carolina game, IMO.

The injuries exposed a lack of depth, especially on the defensive line and at linebacker. Did the lack of a S&C coach during the 2016 preseason/season contribute to to the sheer amount of injuries? Don't know, but I don't think that was a good idea to go without one either.

 

[Backwards K]

The ingame coaching for the Florida, Georgia, and Texas A&M games were fantastic. Big comebacks in all 3 games and the pre game plans were good as well but turnovers helped put the Vols in holes. The coaches made adjustments to score 38 straight points vs UF, overcome a huge deficit on the road at Athens, and amass about 700 yds total offense vs a Chavis led defense at A&M.

An unbiased person could also point to the games Butch coached against Spurrier especially in his first year when they knocked Gamecocks out of SEC Title game. The 15 Bama gameplan was also outstanding as was the 15 & 16 UGA gameplans. Add in the domination of 3 Big 10 games in the bowl games where Tennessee had great game plans.

Have there been some bad game plans? Yep. But, to say Butch is terrible at "tactical football skills" is disingenuous at best. There have been many examples of the Vols being better prepared and having made better in game adjustments against better or equal opponents.

 

[Boca Vol]

The ingame coaching for the Florida, Georgia, and Texas A&M games were fantastic. Big comebacks in all 3 games and the pre game plans were good as well but turnovers helped put the Vols in holes. The coaches made adjustments to score 38 straight points vs UF, overcome a huge deficit on the road at Athens, and amass about 700 yds total offense vs a Chavis led defense at A&M.

An unbiased person could also point to the games Butch coached against Spurrier especially in his first year when they knocked Gamecocks out of SEC Title game. The 15 Bama gameplan was also outstanding as was the 15 & 16 UGA gameplans. Add in the domination of 3 Big 10 games in the bowl games where Tennessee had great game plans.

Have there been some bad game plans? Yep. But, to say Butch is terrible at "tactical football skills" is disingenuous at best. There have been many examples of the Vols being better prepared and having made better in game adjustments against better or equal opponents.

I think one of Butch's best coaching jobs was the '13 UGA game. On paper UT had no business being in that game. Butch's aggressive playcalling almost led to the upset.

 

[1chattyvols1]

The ingame coaching for the Florida, Georgia, and Texas A&M games were fantastic. Big comebacks in all 3 games and the pre game plans were good as well but turnovers helped put the Vols in holes. The coaches made adjustments to score 38 straight points vs UF, overcome a huge deficit on the road at Athens, and amass about 700 yds total offense vs a Chavis led defense at A&M.

An unbiased person could also point to the games Butch coached against Spurrier especially in his first year when they knocked Gamecocks out of SEC Title game. The 15 Bama gameplan was also outstanding as was the 15 & 16 UGA gameplans. Add in the domination of 3 Big 10 games in the bowl games where Tennessee had great game plans.

Have there been some bad game plans? Yep. But, to say Butch is terrible at "tactical football skills" is disingenuous at best. There have been many examples of the Vols being better prepared and having made better in game adjustments against better or equal opponents.

Farh em'.

 

[05_never_again]

The ingame coaching for the Florida, Georgia, and Texas A&M games were fantastic. Big comebacks in all 3 games and the pre game plans were good as well but turnovers helped put the Vols in holes. The coaches made adjustments to score 38 straight points vs UF, overcome a huge deficit on the road at Athens, and amass about 700 yds total offense vs a Chavis led defense at A&M.

An unbiased person could also point to the games Butch coached against Spurrier especially in his first year when they knocked Gamecocks out of SEC Title game. The 15 Bama gameplan was also outstanding as was the 15 & 16 UGA gameplans. Add in the domination of 3 Big 10 games in the bowl games where Tennessee had great game plans.

Have there been some bad game plans? Yep. But, to say Butch is terrible at "tactical football skills" is disingenuous at best. There have been many examples of the Vols being better prepared and having made better in game adjustments against better or equal opponents.

Huh? The in-game coaching for those 3 games you mentioned, not to mention the App St game, was awful. I don't even need to go into the playcalling/decision-making down the stretch to Oklahoma and Florida in 2015.

The offensive playcalling was atrocious to start last season. The pregame prep was probably worse than the in-game coaching. Remember how awful Tennessee looked at the start of games until about midway through the season? The first game in which we actually appeared "ready to play" was the South Carolina game, which, ironically, we got upset in.

Also, I didn't say his in-game coaching skills were "terrible." I said they "leave something to be desired."

 

[volfan102455]

Have there been some bad game plans? Yep. But, to say Butch is terrible at "tactical football skills" is disingenuous at best. There have been many examples of the Vols being better prepared and having made better in game adjustments against better or equal opponents.

Those that say this point to a handful of plays. They ignore what worked and the situations where coaching was really good. They also confuse player execution issues and referee mistakes with coaching mistakes.

It is called putting blinders on and ignoring all the facts that don't support one's position. And before anyone says I do that - well I will admit I do that mostly in reply to those that are doing the same thing to support an alternate view that is not objectively based.

CBJ is a good coach ... he is not terrible and he is not great (aka Saban).

 

[chargervol]

I saw on 247 that Finebaum is backing off his criticisms this morning. Weasel.

Yeah, heard that also.
Don't know if Butch's response was posted here but without looking it back up (paraphrasing)

[Paul Finebaum has has never played one snap of football for Tennessee. Our expectations are always to win championships and that's the next step for our program.
His job is to make comments like he did.]

Now that's just talk of course but like when Saban jumped Paul last yr, that's all it takes for him to pull a weasel.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

CBJ hired the staff he wanted. He replaced every coach at UT and handpicked his own people. UT gave CBJ and his assistants pay increases and paid buyouts to the dismissed coaches-- some mitigated by the coaches quickly finding jobs elsewhere.

Best staff in America as I recall. At least they were the BSIA until he fired most of them because they really weren't.

 

[volfan102455]

At some point we need to ice a game on offense by throwing the ball or just blow everybody out and call it a day.

I don't see him blowing anymore games. 119 and 120 were great learning years for our program. 119 tought us don't relax with a lead and blow it, 120 tought us don't relax on scrub teams and blow it and maybe not to be so loose with the ball.

Ice a game by throwing the ball - well if that throw leads to an interception - then the dialogue changes to ... "why throw the ball when you have the lead and need to ice the game". Coaches can't win on this. You try to ice the game with running plays and go 3 and out, folks complain. You try to ice the game with passes taking less time or having a turnover, folks complain.

I do agree about team 119 and 120 - they were the exact reverse of each other. To be fair there was a lot of that with many games among various teams in 2016 - it wasn't just a Tennessee thing.

 

[05_never_again]

Best staff in America as I recall. At least they were the BSIA until he fired most of them because they really weren't.

Yeah. Basically everybody he originally brought over is gone. Imagine that; his buddies from Central Michigan and Cincinnati weren't really a top SEC coaching staff. Stunning.

 

[Doberman]

I think one of Butch's best coaching jobs was the '13 UGA game. On paper UT had no business being in that game. Butch's aggressive playcalling almost led to the upset.

Agree, Boca.

By far his best coaching job to date here at Tennessee.

 

[volfan102455]

Yeah. Basically everybody he originally brought over is gone. Imagine that; his buddies from Central Michigan and Cincinnati weren't really a top SEC coaching staff. Stunning.

Wasn't Gillespie and Thig part of the first staff? I could be wrong but thought they were.

 

[butchna]

Wasn't Gillespie and Thig part of the first staff? I could be wrong but thought they were.

Thig...yeah. Gillespie took over for Graham a few months on the job. None of the three had ties to Butch...nor did Willie Martinez.

 

[DaddyChad]

For the foreseeable future we aren't going to out-talent Alabama, so any chance we have of beating them is going to require a coach who can out-coach Nick Saban; there's the rub.

Did UAB outcoach or outtalent Saban?

Saban can be beaten but the talent margin has to be close. We've had some talented teams but we still had gaps in talent at specific positions especially Oline and our depth isn't even close to what Bama has.

 

[zeppelin128]

I think one of Butch's best coaching jobs was the '13 UGA game. On paper UT had no business being in that game. Butch's aggressive playcalling almost led to the upset.

Agreed, that game was a blast to watch, except for the outcome of course. First time since the Kiffen year that I believed we were on our way back. If I recall correctly we blocked a punt for a TD in the third quarter that really fired everybody up.

 

[zeppelin128]

Yeah, heard that also.
Don't know if Butch's response was posted here but without looking it back up (paraphrasing)

[Paul Finebaum has has never played one snap of football for Tennessee. Our expectations are always to win championships and that's the next step for our program.
His job is to make comments like he did.]

Now that's just talk of course but like when Saban jumped Paul last yr, that's all it takes for him to pull a weasel.

Doesn't take much to spook Paul apparently.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Best staff in America as I recall. At least they were the BSIA until he fired most of them because they really weren't.

Feel better, Hillbilly? Got that out of your system?

Or are you going to bring it up again (and again and again) every few weeks for the rest of your natural life?

Just trying to plan ahead for what to expect from you. The horse is freaking dead. After dying, it was beat into glue. And the glue has since been spattered about the forum in a most unseemly manner. But just trying to get a feel for how much more of this to expect.

 

[Johnnyreb#VFL]

If Butch ends up getting fired, his biggest crime will be his ignorance of not knowing he was good enough and stubbornness not to admit it.