2017 Vols will have the #1 or #2 ranked DEFENSE in the SEC

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Our 22 were at no point even close to the best in the country.... Not even close. In fact the only player on the roster that would even be considered to be the best at their position was Derrick Barnett

Josh Dobbs was a better runner than Deshaun Watson last year and on a per pass basis a more efficient passer. He was IMO the best QB in the country last year. He just had no help because of injuries and a poor o-line.

Either way we have no idea how good our starting 22 could have ultimately been because after 2 weeks of the season the barrage of injuries started. We lost 2 All-SEC preseason 1st team selections (JRM and Cam Sutton) for essentially the entire season in week 3. We lost another guy with All-SEC talent in Darrin Kirkland Jr. in week 2. And from there the cascade started.

 

[TAF]

Josh Dobbs was a better runner than Deshaun Watson last year and on a per pass basis a more efficient passer.

I read D4H posts...

I picture him as...

 

[KBVol]

Not agreeing with you doesn't make a discussion irrational. And I love how you totally ignore the fact our defense was totally ravaged by injuries last year when discussing Shoop. Now tell how that is rational? Bob Shoop had a track record that spanned years at Vanderbilt and Penn State where fielded elite defenses. He has one bad year here when his entire defense is decimated by injuries and you compare him to Sunseri?

Please save us this bull about being rational. You're the same clown who spent all last off-season saying Tennessee couldn't beat Florida because of some mental roadblock rather than talent and coaching. You're the last person to try and talk about rational discussions.

You certainly don't have to agree with me. Just try having a reasonable, rational thought backed up with evidence/proof. Not your strong suit kid.

 

[volfannbama]

Elite enough to go from a DL coach at Oregon St. and Michigan to a head coach at Ball St., San Diego St. and Michigan. I guess 3 schools thought he was elite. Although, I doubt Michigan thinks he is an elite head coach and Oregon, probably doesn't think he is an elite defensive coordinator. So, imo, he is back doing what he is truly elite at, coaching the DL and apparently recruiting big time defensive lineman

Oh yeah, watch Michigan fall off this year after most of his recruits are gone, even with the "great" Jim Harbaugh as the head coach

So in your opinion, an elite coach is one that bounces around from job to job and the departed school isnt willing to pay for himto stay? Nice

 

[butchna]

So in your opinion, an elite coach is one that bounces around from job to job and the departed school isnt willing to pay for himto stay? Nice

He left for HC opportunities.

 

[Remy]

Just trying to help WD appreciate that at this point, there is a lot more substance to nay than yay. I'll go ahead and finish to give you an opportunity to reasonably explain how Jonathan Kongbo is better than Trent Thompson.

It's your strawman consequently nothing for me to explain. However just for starters no one has ever seen Jennings layout Kongbo however many an old Vol fan saves on his Viagra bills watching Thompson get splattered by JJ over and over again via gif and video. Does that help you?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You certainly don't have to agree with me. Just try having a reasonable, rational thought backed up with evidence/proof. Not your strong suit kid.

So having 3 former 5-stars on the defensive line isn't evidence/proof to support my argument that our defensive line has the talent to be elite?

I've said many times that the 2017 Vols have 2 top 5 recruiting classes still on campus and have a 4 year recruiting rank as good as Clemson last year. I would say that is good evidence and proof to support my argument that we can be a national championship contender this year?

Its not like our talent level is like Kentucky where someone predicting that team to win the SEC championship would not be grounded in reality. All my arguments are supported evidence and proof. I always root my arguments based on the talent on our roster.

 

[bamawriter]

Josh Dobbs was a better runner than Deshaun Watson last year and on a per pass basis a more efficient passer. He was IMO the best QB in the country last year. He just had no help because of injuries and a poor o-line.

The same O-line that you gushed over before the season kicked off?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

The same O-line that you gushed over before the season kicked off?

You got me there. I made the mistake last year of thinking experience would make inferior talent better. But that didn't happen. Our struggles along the o-line are a product of inferior talent. Its one of the main reasons I haven't hopped on the bandwagon this year where everyone assumes the o-line will improve drastically this year because they are all coming back and a year more experienced.

Instead I'm banking on the defense cause at least I know the talent there is actually elite. It just hasn't lived up to the talent level yet because of injuries. A healthy defense this year and Tennessee will be elite once again.

 

[The Dog]

So in your opinion, an elite coach is one that bounces around from job to job and the departed school isnt willing to pay for himto stay? Nice

No,an elite coach goes from a DL coach at a middle of the pack Pac 10(at that time) team to a premier Big 10 team like Michigan. Then does such a good job at coaching DLs, he gets a chance to be a head coach at Ball St. Then upgrades to head coach to San Diego St. and then to Michigan. Would u not call that an elite coaching career trajectory? I would.

 

[volfannbama]

No,an elite coach goes from a DL coach at a middle of the pack Pac 10(at that time) team to a premier Big 10 team like Michigan. Then does such a good job at coaching DLs, he gets a chance to be a head coach at Ball St. Then upgrades to head coach to San Diego St. and then to Michigan. Would u not call that an elite coaching career trajectory? I would.

No, i think he is good though. Still doesnt make up the #2 defense in sec.

 

[The Dog]

No, i think he is good though. Still doesnt make up the #2 defense in sec.

I never said that. I just said I thought Hoke was an elite DL coach and an above average recruiter

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I never said that. I just said I thought Hoke was an elite DL coach and an above average recruiter

He has yet to prove he is an elite DL coach. Good? Yes. Elite? Not yet. We shall see though. I hope he steps it up a little in recruiting.

 

[General Jack]

Could our defense be great?

Yes.

Am I expecting it to be great?

No.

I'd say it's more realistic to expect us in the 4-6 (SEC) range in terms of yards and points allowed. We have potential, but all the stars would have to align for us to be elite. Shoop has a great track record prior to Tennessee, but we have new assistants, again, and all of our 5 star DLs are injury prone.

 

[felloffthetrain]

I want to see some pick 6's

 

[MiramarVol]

The SEC media just came out with their list for All-SEC Defense, first, second, and third team. 0 is a lonely number.


Realizing that they simply don't have the gift to see what you see, they will, of course, be making the call.

How many times does a player receive end of season awards that missed the highly acclaimed Pre-Season awards list?? I think they missed in '15 when Berry and Sutton received All-American Honors for one. It's Pre-Season, so it's a hit and miss thing. Only matters at the end of the season.

 

[TUSKtimes]

How many times does a player receive end of season awards that missed the highly acclaimed Pre-Season awards list?? I think they missed in '15 when Berry and Sutton received All-American Honors for one. It's Pre-Season, so it's a hit and miss thing. Only matters at the end of the season.

So far, any tenn player selected would be a miss, even as a 3rd teamer. The final count always changes, but take a good look at WD's projection and tell Orangeville it's gonna change that dramatically. I think not.

 

[volfannbama]

I never said that. I just said I thought Hoke was an elite DL coach and an above average recruiter

Not saying you said that, just going with thread title.

 

[butchna]

So far, any tenn player selected would be a miss, even as a 3rd teamer. The final count always changes, but take a good look at WD's projection and tell Orangeville it's gonna change that dramatically. I think not.

You really think there is an Orangeville, don't you? "Think" :lol: Why do preseason projections vex you so? Your team generally dominates those AND the final lists. Is it because Tennessee still ends up putting out better overall NFL players? Maybe ask Methville residents when you bring them back your earnings.

 

[KBVol]

Stop shooting down everything bc you don't like the guy. I see you argue for the sake of arguing on everything he posts. Either read it impartially or skip it.

He's just joining everyone else. Doesn't wanna miss out on the fun imo.

 

[TUSKtimes]

You really think there is an Orangeville, don't you? "Think" :lol: Why do preseason projections vex you so? Your team generally dominates those AND the final lists. Is it because Tennessee still ends up putting out better overall NFL players?

I'll bite, who you got in mind?

 

[xpsyclonex2002]

Based on the talent we lost last year, and the absolute fall aparts that our defense had at the end of the season, I cannot fathom us having that kind of reversal. I can see us somewhere in the three or four range but not a top two defense. And if our offense doesn't show up in a major way, our defense is going to spend so much time on the field that they're going to end up mean dead last.

 

[butchna]

I'll bite, who you got in mind?

You got Julio Jones...and who else? Eric Berry,Peyton Manning until recently. Jamal Lewis,Charlie Garner,Reggie White,Dale Carter,Arian Foster,Al Wilson,Leonard Little,Jason Witten...I'll slow down. And before you pull the "in the past" alarm, I'm talking epic talents FROM our respective programs. You're putting DRAFTEES into the NFL, and we were in a rebuilding lull...a long one! And you still don't have us swamped in epic talents produced by your program. We just had 6 drafted and only 2 were relatively healthy all season...what happens when we get a full season out of ours AND they get drafted? Recruits may notice that they know more of the names saying "Tennessee" on Sunday Night Football...that's what. Take that back to the Bama board that has to have reported you missing...since you started squatting here.

 

[TUSKtimes]

You got Julio Jones...and who else? Eric Berry,Peyton Manning until recently. Jamal Lewis,Charlie Garner,Reggie White,Dale Carter,Arian Foster,Al Wilson,Leonard Little,Jason Witten...I'll slow down. And before you pull the "in the past" alarm, I'm talking epic talents FROM our respective programs. You're putting DRAFTEES into the NFL, and we were in a rebuilding lull...a long one! And you still don't have us swamped in epic talents produced by your program. We just had 6 drafted and only 2 were relatively healthy all season...what happens when we get a full season out of ours AND they get drafted? Recruits may notice that they know more of the names saying "Tennessee" on Sunday Night Football...that's what. Take that back to the Bama board that has to have reported you missing...since you started squatting here.

John Hannah - still considered the best OL in NFL history.
Don Hutson - still considered the greater receiver in the NFL by those Canton, Ohio folks.
Dwight Stephenson - Snake Stabler, Bart Starr, Lee Roy Jordan, Ozzie Newsome, Derrick Thomas, Cornelius Bennett, Shaun Alexander, Amari Cooper, Landon Collins, Julio, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Eddie Lacy, CJ Mosley. Just a little shout out to some old and new off the top of my head.

One of the better measuring sticks beyond, because I said so, is the number of "consensus" All-Americans leaving the Capstone these days and for that matter through college football history:

Since 2008, Saban’s second season — when Alabama had its first showdown with Tim Tebow, Urban Meyer and Florida in the SEC Championship Game — the Crimson Tide have fielded 29 consensus All-American selections earned by 25 players.

YEAR CONSENSUS ALL-AMERICANS
2008 C Antoine Caldwell, DL Terrence Cody, OL Andre Smith*
2009 DB Javier Arenas, DL Terrence Cody, RB Mark Ingram*, OL Mike Johnson, Rolando McClain*
2010 None
2011 DB Mark Barron*, LB Dont’a Hightower, OL Barrett Jones*, RB Trent Richardson*
2012 C Barrett Jones, DB Dee Milliner*, CB C.J. Mosley*, OL Chance Warmack*
2013 DB Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, OL Cyrus Kouandjio, LB C.J. Mosley*
2014 WR Amari Cooper*, DB Landon Collis*
2015 RB Derrick Henry*, C Ryan Kelly, LB Reggie Ragland*, DL A’Shawn Robinson
2016 OL Cam Robinson*, DL Jonathan Allen*, LB Reuben Foster*, DB Minkah Fitzpatrick
*—Denotes unanimous selection

Overall, the Crimson Tide have had 68 consensus All-Americans, won by 64 players


The SEC East’s all-time selections: Tennessee 40, Florida 32, Georgia 31, Missouri 13, Kentucky 10, Vanderbilt 6, South Carolina 4.

Common, admit it, Alabama is pretty dam good.

 

[butchna]

John Hannah - still considered the best OL in NFL history.
Don Hutson - still considered the greater receiver in the NFL by those Canton, Ohio folks.
Dwight Stephenson - Snake Stabler, Bart Starr, Lee Roy Jordan, Ozzie Newsome, Derrick Thomas, Cornelius Bennett, Shaun Alexander, Amari Cooper, Landon Collins, Julio, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Eddie Lacy, CJ Mosley. Just a little shout out to some old and new off the top of my head.

One of the better measuring sticks beyond, because I said so, is the number of "consensus" All-Americans leaving the Capstone these days and for that matter through college football history:

Since 2008, Saban’s second season — when Alabama had its first showdown with Tim Tebow, Urban Meyer and Florida in the SEC Championship Game — the Crimson Tide have fielded 29 consensus All-American selections earned by 25 players.

YEAR CONSENSUS ALL-AMERICANS
2008 C Antoine Caldwell, DL Terrence Cody, OL Andre Smith*
2009 DB Javier Arenas, DL Terrence Cody, RB Mark Ingram*, OL Mike Johnson, Rolando McClain*
2010 None
2011 DB Mark Barron*, LB Dont’a Hightower, OL Barrett Jones*, RB Trent Richardson*
2012 C Barrett Jones, DB Dee Milliner*, CB C.J. Mosley*, OL Chance Warmack*
2013 DB Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, OL Cyrus Kouandjio, LB C.J. Mosley*
2014 WR Amari Cooper*, DB Landon Collis*
2015 RB Derrick Henry*, C Ryan Kelly, LB Reggie Ragland*, DL A’Shawn Robinson
2016 OL Cam Robinson*, DL Jonathan Allen*, LB Reuben Foster*, DB Minkah Fitzpatrick
*—Denotes unanimous selection

Overall, the Crimson Tide have had 68 consensus All-Americans, won by 64 players


The SEC East’s all-time selections: Tennessee 40, Florida 32, Georgia 31, Missouri 13, Kentucky 10, Vanderbilt 6, South Carolina 4.

Common, admit it, Alabama is pretty dam good.

Yeah I didn't bring up Neyland's products or negligible talents like Bob Johnson and Doug Atkins, because that might seem like mining Wikipedia. Of that gamut of name pollution you clogged my screen up with, Cornelius Bennett,Ozzie Newsome, John Hannah,Derrick Thomas,Hightower and Mark Barron keeps it honest. When you try to shoehorn freaking Eddie Lacy,JAVIER ARENAS, TERRANCE CODY (among others) and unproven recent draft picks into an EPIC TALENT conversation? I get nostalgic for the days you gumps claimed a NC every year you fielded a roster. What your boys put out on preseason and postseason lists since the dawn of time isn't at issue. Mine was that these popularity contests stem from current reputation...not future quality of the product. When our Derek Barnett has to settle for second team All-SEC? Science ain't being used.