California ban on same-sex marriage struck down

#176
#176
I dont condone homosexuality in the slightest bit, however I dont think the Goverment should have a say so. That sub culture of people, excuse me for this, dig their own graves, by living their lives that way.

We are not a very accepting culture and many of us fear what we dont understand. I get that.
 
#177
#177
utvolpj said:
Not sure I agree with that because you seem to be calling it a defect or something brought on by trauma. I have no doubt that there is a small % who choose to be gay while still having straight sexual feelings. We know it happens in the straight community all the time.

What I still don't get is this fear of other human beings having the same rights as you and me when it doesn't hurt anything. (not really at you KB, just general)
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Couldn't call it a defect at all. In his case I would consider it being a psychological response to something that hurt him so deeply on many levels. I spoke with him in depth about this. I told him that I did not understand and wanted his perspective so that I might be able to comprehend the situation better and he was very open. Again this is one case (very extreme) but he volunteered that he knows at some point he made the choice that he would never be with another woman.
 
#178
#178
allvol123 said:
You're right, for most I'd say it is not a choice. Most likely is some type of disease or mental condition. As a society we should treat these people as normally as anyone else. However, by not recognizing it for what it really is we are taking on the role of enablers. If we are going to pour money into AIDS research we should also have an open mind and pour money in research why someone's brain would cause them to make these choices in the first place. But that would be unrealistic or phobic to consider the idea that this lifestyle is not normal.
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I dont view it as a disease or mental condition.
 
#179
#179
Fine Vol said:
I dont view it as a disease or mental condition.
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Of course you don't, if you do you get branded as some sort of "hater" or something. When in reality it is certainly possible that it is some type of abnormal condition due to some biological mishap in the body. Do we look at dyslexic people and say, that is normal? No, we acknowledge there is a problem and try to find ways to help them.
 
#180
#180
allvol123 said:
Of course you don't, if you do you get branded as some sort of "hater" or something. When in reality it is certainly possible that it is some type of abnormal condition due to some biological mishap in the body. Do we look at dyslexic people and say, that is normal? No, we acknowledge there is a problem and try to find ways to help them.
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They dont need help.
 
#182
#182
allvol123 said:
You're right, for most I'd say it is not a choice. Most likely is some type of disease or mental condition. As a society we should treat these people as normally as anyone else. However, by not recognizing it for what it really is we are taking on the role of enablers. If we are going to pour money into AIDS research we should also have an open mind and pour money in research why someone's brain would cause them to make these choices in the first place. But that would be unrealistic or phobic to consider the idea that this lifestyle is not normal.
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My sarcasm meter just exploded. Either that is simply a brilliant post or...:ermm:
 
#183
#183
utvolpj said:
My sarcasm meter just exploded. Either that is simply a brilliant post or...:ermm:
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Or what? If you have a legitimate reply that refutes the idea it could be a disease or condition then supply it. I am amazed that people that are so "open minded" can't grasp the idea.
 
#184
#184
allvol123 said:
Of course not, anyone suggesting they do is obviously "phobic". Can we turn off the funding for AIDS research then? Cause it seems the homosexual community demands they do need help.
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No I respect your opinion your not an idiot. Just a repub:)
 
#185
#185
allvol123 said:
You're right, for most I'd say it is not a choice. Most likely is some type of disease or mental condition. As a society we should treat these people as normally as anyone else. However, 1) by not recognizing it for what it really is we are taking on the role of enablers. If we are going to pour money into AIDS research we 2) should also have an open mind and pour money in research why someone's brain would cause them to make these choices in the first place. But that would be unrealistic or phobic to consider the idea that this lifestyle is not normal.
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1) What is it, really?

2) We should extend the same courtesies to left-handed people, another abnormal lifestyle.
 
#187
#187
allvol123 said:
Or what? If you have a legitimate reply that refutes the idea it could be a disease or condition then supply it. I am amazed that people that are so "open minded" can't grasp the idea.
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PJ, if I may...

Allvol123, please refute the idea that being left-handed (or having a high voice or not being able to make jump shots liking emo music) is not a condition or disease.
 
#188
#188
TennNC said:
1) What is it, really?

2) We should extend the same courtesies to left-handed people, another abnormal lifestyle.
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1) My contention is that it is quite possible that it is a disease or some mental disorder.

2) No we shouldn't. Left handed people are not disproprtionately prone to a disease that I am aware of.

I know it stirs some of you up to even consider saying someone that is homosexual might have a problem with their genetic make up, but really, step back calm down just analyze it as a possibility.

When I see a grown man on the local news arrested for child molestation, I am first disgusted but I also have another thought. Why would a healthy rational minded human being do such a thing? I realize they wouldn't. They have either been subjected to some trauma themselves or their brain is just not "right". It is no leap to make a similar theory out of people that choose to subject themselves to a lifestyle such as homosexuality.
 
#189
#189
One guy asked my female cousin how she could be gay.

She replied, do you want to touch a mans PE____? He said NO! She said neither do I.
 
#190
#190
KB5252 said:
marriage is a religious institution and always has been.
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Sorry for going so far back in the thread, but I want to address a point many have made here - marriage is not necessarily a religious institution. It's always a social institution, but not always religious. And that's what this fight is about - in California, and eventually, in most places in the country. They want social, legal rights, not religious ones. This law is not seeking to change religion in any way whatsoever.

Allowing homosexuals to marry in no way infringes on someone's rights - especially religious rights. It might make one feel uncomfortable, and that's tough sh*t. Homosexuals aren't going to become heterosexual, so if you oppose equal rights for homosexuals, you can either fight it endlessly and be miserable, or accept their existence and probably be much happier because of it.
 
#192
#192
allvol123 said:
1) My contention is that it is quite possible that it is a disease or some mental disorder.

2) No we shouldn't. Left handed people are not disproprtionately prone to a disease that I am aware of.

I know it stirs some of you up to even consider saying someone that is homosexual might have a problem with their genetic make up, but really, step back calm down just analyze it as a possibility.
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I guess it stirs me b/c I see it as completely unnecessary, and a colossal waste of time and energy and resources. I wouldn't want someone to try to change my sexuality and make me a homosexual, so yeah, if I were them, I'd be stirred up too.

To consider it a disease I have to believe the act of being attracted, sexually and emotionally, to a member of the same sex as harmful, destructive, morbid. I don't, therefore I cannot see it as a disease, the same way I consider left-handedness is not a disease.

I have no problem with two competent, consenting adults being in love and making a commitment to each other. In fact, I have come to believe it is a beautiful thing.

Harmful sexual behavior is a separate issue - whether that behavior is in relation to someone of the same or opposite sex is completely irrelevant. If you're referring to AIDS, sounds like we should support protection and monogamy, not heterosexuality. I mean, imagine if all the gay guys with AIDS suddenly were "cured" so they could have sex with women? Then the disease would really explode.
 
#193
#193
TennNC said:
I guess it stirs me b/c I see it as completely unnecessary, and a colossal waste of time and energy and resources. I wouldn't want someone to try to change my sexuality and make me a homosexual, so yeah, if I were them, I'd be stirred up too.

To consider it a disease I have to believe the act of being attracted, sexually and emotionally, to a member of the same sex as harmful, destructive, morbid. I don't, therefore I cannot see it as a disease, the same way I consider left-handedness is not a disease.

I have no problem with two competent, consenting adults being in love and making a commitment to each other. In fact, I have come to believe it is a beautiful thing.

Harmful sexual behavior is a separate issue - whether that behavior is in relation to someone of the same or opposite sex is completely irrelevant. If you're referring to AIDS, sounds like we should support protection and monogamy, not heterosexuality. I mean, imagine if all the gay guys with AIDS suddenly were "cured" so they could have sex with women? Then the disease would really explode.
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Great post.
 
#194
#194
TennNC said:
I guess it stirs me b/c I see it as completely unnecessary, and a colossal waste of time and energy and resources. I wouldn't want someone to try to change my sexuality and make me a homosexual, so yeah, if I were them, I'd be stirred up too.

To consider it a disease I have to believe the act of being attracted, sexually and emotionally, to a member of the same sex as harmful, destructive, morbid. I don't, therefore I cannot see it as a disease, the same way I consider left-handedness is not a disease.

I have no problem with two competent, consenting adults being in love and making a commitment to each other. In fact, I have come to believe it is a beautiful thing.

Harmful sexual behavior is a separate issue - whether that behavior is in relation to someone of the same or opposite sex is completely irrelevant. If you're referring to AIDS, sounds like we should support protection and monogamy, not heterosexuality. I mean, imagine if all the gay guys with AIDS suddenly were "cured" so they could have sex with women? Then the disease would really explode.
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Do homosexuals not have a higher rate of STDs than heterosexuals? Speicifically to AIDS, I would guess yes they do.

As I have stated, I can entertain the idea that this is a biological "mess up". That in no way is some vindication for dislike for homosexuals. I know them, am related to them, eat holiday meals with them and work with them. I treat them the same as anyone else. I dislike the behavior not the individual.

As for your "being in love". Adults are known to "love" all types of things that are harmful to their being. And many of these things are most certainly considered addictions or medical problems.
 
#195
#195
allvol123 said:
Do homosexuals not have a higher rate of STDs than heterosexuals? Speicifically to AIDS, I would guess yes they do.

As I have stated, I can entertain the idea that this is a biological "mess up". That in no way is some vindication for dislike for homosexuals. I know them, am related to them, eat holiday meals with them and work with them. I treat them the same as anyone else. I dislike the behavior not the individual.
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They absolutely have a higher rate of AIDS/HIV than heterosexuals, so let's look at how to reduce the spread of this virus amongst them (and heterosexuals). And I would say one place to start is to not make them feel like they are a "mess up." Accept them the way they are, embrace them the way they are, teach all people how to live responsibly (protection until monogamy being the chief principle). It's not because they're homosexual. It's because they're not using protection and/or being monogamous.

Regarding the part in bold, I wouldn't think anything otherwise - you're too good a guy for me to think you dislike homosexuals just for the sake of disliking them. I fully believe your intentions are right. We disagree on strategy.
 
#196
#196
TennNC said:
They absolutely have a higher rate of AIDS/HIV than heterosexuals, so let's look at how to reduce the spread of this virus amongst them (and heterosexuals). And I would say one place to start is to not make them feel like they are a "mess up." Accept them the way they are, embrace them the way they are, teach all people how to live responsibly (protection until monogamy being the chief principle). It's not because they're homosexual. It's because they're not using protection and/or being monogamous.
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So why do they have a higher rate of infection? I don't buy it is because they are made to feel like lesser people and this somehow reduces their desire to practice safe sex. More like, the phyiscal actions they perform are more prone to transfer disease and or mentally they do not desire to engage in safe sexual practices EVEN though it is known their lifestyle produces a higher rate of infection. Either or both of these scenarios points to backing up my idea.
 
#197
#197
TennNC said:
you can either fight it endlessly and be miserable, or accept their existence and probably be much happier because of it.
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I think you're giving the issue way too much credit for being mainstream. I suspect that the vast, vast majority of heterosexuals only give it thought on random occasions of this nature. Many apparently harbor strong opinions on the topic, but not to the point of making their lives less happy.

I tend to side with you on the topic, but don't really care enough to let it make an impact on my day.
 
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