Vols Path to the East Division

#51
#51
Boca Vol said:
Agree with both of these points. There have been very few off the field incidences and when they've popped up they've been dealt with swiftly.

On the field I think back to 2013. While that team wasn't very talented Butch did a good job with the on-field discipline. Very few penalties that season.

One particular memory from that season is when UT was lining up to kick the winning FG vs. S. Carolina. The line held their stance for an eternity. I was waiting for a false start...10 second run-off, ball-game but the players stayed focused.

Then there was last season. I think Butch trusted his mature team too much and it backfired.

With the talent of this team with the discipline of '13, UT can win the East.
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Yeah, Boca, I absolutely agree. And I remember the 2013 season the same way.

Would be particularly curious to get some insider insights into Team 120 and the extent to which Butch's shift of leadership roles to the senior class affected this.

It's always a risk, giving more leadership responsibilities to your student leaders. Something you always want to do, but that you never know how it's going to turn out. Their leadership tool kit simply isn't that well developed that early in life. So it will necessarily be spotty...you never know which pieces will be missing.

For Team 120, it seems that discipline might have been one of those bits handed off to an extent more than they were ready for.
 
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#52
#52
Rockytoptalker said:
UGA will be favored to win the east like they oftentimes are, but as per usual (Like us this past season) will fall short of their preseason expectations. They'll lose to 2 of Auburn, Florida, or ourselves and more than likely trip up against a team like South Carolina or UK. Jacob Eason will be improved, but won't be close to elite and I'd have to imagine Chubb still won't be the absolute phenom he once was. Add all of that up with the fact that Jim Chaney is their offensive coordinator and I just don't see them taking the SECE this year. The only thing they have going for them is the amount of starters they have returning.
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Jim Cheney is a great oc.. I don't get why you put him down in your thesis. He was the only bright spot during the Dooley years.
 
#53
#53
Other than undisciplined, the opposite of disciplined could be loose.

There is a delicate balance that needs to be found.
 
#54
#54
jarnol32 said:
Jim Cheney is a great oc.. I don't get why you put him down in your thesis. He was the only bright spot during the Dooley years.
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He's not a great OC. Georgia was 87th in total offense this past season, and I'm sure you saw his play call against Vandy with the game on the line this past year. The reason you call him a bright spot is because he had a team(s) with Patterson, Hunter, Rivera, Bray, etc... on them. Anybody can have a top 25 passing attack with them, especially when you couple in the offensive line we had in 2012
 
#56
#56
VFL-82-JP said:
Yeah, Boca, I absolutely agree. And I remember the 2013 season the same way.

Would be particularly curious to get some insider insights into Team 120 and the extent to which Butch's shift of leadership roles to the senior class affected this.

It's always a risk, giving more leadership responsibilities to your student leaders. Something you always want to do, but that you never know how it's going to turn out. Their leadership tool kit simply isn't that well developed that early in life. So it will necessarily be spotty...you never know which pieces will be missing.

For Team 120, it seems that discipline might have been one of those bits handed off to an extent more than they were ready for.
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Remember, that was one of Butch's "big announcements" for the O&W game...naming team captains. I thought it was a good move at a good time with the expectations that were on the line.

It just didn't work out. I noticed Butch didn't name team captains this for this year. Each team is different and should be treated as such but if the talent and discipline are in sync then UT will be fine. :good!:
 
#57
#57
Boca Vol said:
Remember, that was one of Butch's "big announcements" for the O&W game...naming team captains. I thought it was a good move at a good time with the expectations that were on the line.

It just didn't work out. I noticed Butch didn't name team captains this for this year. Each team is different and should be treated as such but if the talent and discipline are in sync then UT will be fine. :good!:
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I applauded it at the time, too.

The first twinge of concern I had was after JRM's ejection during the App State game. Remember how he threw his helmet into the locker room as he was leaving the field? In the back of my head, I felt a bit of 'uh-oh' at that point. Not because he was frustrated, all young men would be frustrated at that point. But because, as a team leader, he's gotta be calmer than that, more ... wait for it ... disciplined. As an example to his fellow players.

Not saying I knew then Team 120 would be undisciplined all season long on the field. I didn't. Just saying that was a first little grain of worry under the saddle pad.
 
#58
#58
NeverWe'llSever said:
Sweep the scrubs (USCjr, Vandy, Kentucky, Mizzou) and beat UF and I think we're in.
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3 conference losses? That's generally not good enough...it's only happened twice, and one of those times (2010 - the year when South Carolina actually made it) was pretty much one of the worst years either division in the SEC has historically seen.
 
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#59
#59
Boca Vol said:
Agree with both of these points. There have been very few off the field incidences and when they've popped up they've been dealt with swiftly.

On the field I think back to 2013. While that team wasn't very talented Butch did a good job with the on-field discipline. Very few penalties that season.

One particular memory from that season is when UT was lining up to kick the winning FG vs. S. Carolina. The line held their stance for an eternity. I was waiting for a false start...10 second run-off, ball-game but the players stayed focused.

Then there was last season. I think Butch trusted his mature team too much and it backfired.

With the talent of this team with the discipline of '13, UT can win the East.
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Unfortunately, the next SEC games against Alabama, Missouri, and Auburn afterwards did not go so well for that year's team.
 
#60
#60
TrueOrange said:
3 conference losses? That's generally not good enough...it's only happened twice, and one of those times (2010 - the year when South Carolina actually made it) was pretty much one of the worst years either division in the SEC has historically seen.
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Agreed. To make it at 5-3, under this scenario, UGa would have to lose 4 SEC games. Which probably isn't going to happen.

Getting to 6-2 with UGa and FL as two of our wins is usually (though not always; see last fall) a good bet for Atlanta. But not 5-3. That's almost never enough.
 
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#61
#61
CountVolcula said:
We will likely be going into November needing to beat Vandy and Kentucky to be .500 in SEC play and a trip to the Music City Bowl on the line
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IknoxvolsI said:
Unfortunately, I concurr.
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We were just there. With the way the SEC offices say they arrange the same-level "group of 6" tier bowl games, we'd likely be playing for a Liberty, Texas, or Belk Bowl bid that far down.
 
#62
#62
Iam4utalways said:
Truth. Most equate "backing in", as anytime you need help due to a conference loss.
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Pretty much anytime you're not rolling into it with 0 or only 1 conference loss, there seems to be at least someone that starts throwing the term out there.
 
#63
#63
Boca Vol said:
I've heard some UF fans talk about backing into the SEC East last season. I don't necessarily disagree with them considering how it played out. But I generally agree with if you win the division you win the division.
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In that regard, though, I mean they beat a ranked LSU team when they had to in order to seal it.

It wasn't like they lost by 30 and then UT's loss to Vanderbilt in the next week sent them there.



Off topic sidenote though: With how the schedule works, it seems like the only times/ways the SEC East race can actually be interesting in the very last week of the regular season is if Tennessee or Missouri is the division leader.
 
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#64
#64
volgrad500 said:
I honestly think Missouri is going to be a lot better than people think.
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As long as they keep running that DB heavy Big 12-style spread opposite their always-hurry-up-no-huddle offense, then no, they won't.

Which in a sense is a shame on their part. How does the DC of a program that the prior year fielded and returned pretty much every player ni a top 8 defense then become the HC abd choose to run things in so poor a way that said defense falls all the way to 118th in the country the next year?
 
#65
#65
volfan102455 said:
There is parity in the east and there is parity for 2nd place in the west. And there is parity in the ACC, Big 10 and all those other conferences as well.

The NC was won by a team that lost to an 8-5 team at home. And that team beat a team that did not even win its conference in a playoff game.

If anything was learned from last season it is that the unexpected can and will happen.
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BeecherVol said:
If parity means the top has slipped far enough for the rest to have a punchers chance on Saturdays I'd agree. It's not like the doormats have made huge strides.
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That or the division just hasn't really been fielding great teams since around 2013. Everyone coming out to be around "middle of the pack" in the end can be just as much a statement about a decline in quality rather than a gap being closed (or an NFL-style "anyone can be good due to the boundaries established by the salary cap" type of parity).


Honestly it seems more like everyone in the conference has been falling even further behind the current Alabama...in some cases even with conference schools scrambling to change coaches as a means done in the hopes of finding a way of closing a seemingly widening gap.
 
#67
#67
TrueOrange said:
We were just there. With the way the SEC offices say they arrange the same-level "group of 6" tier bowl games, we'd likely be playing for a Liberty, Texas, or Belk Bowl bid that far down.
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Sad thing is I remember when we were excited to go to the Liberty Bowl.
 
#68
#68
volfan102455 said:
There is parity in the east and there is parity for 2nd place in the west. And there is parity in the ACC, Big 10 and all those other conferences as well.

The NC was won by a team that lost to an 8-5 team at home. And that team beat a team that did not even win its conference in a playoff game.

If anything was learned from last season it is that the unexpected can and will happen.
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The team that won the NC last year also went 14-1, beat Florida State, Ohio State and Alabama....it was a great football team, and it was in no way "unexpected" when they won their conference, made the playoff and played in the championship game.
 
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#69
#69
KBVol said:
The team that won the NC last year also went 14-1, beat Florida State, Ohio State and Alabama....it was a great football team, and it was in no way "unexpected" when they won their conference, made the playoff and played in the championship game.
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Good point.

While "anything can happen",and it did once for them, they beat very good football teams to get where they did.
 
#70
#70
Process of elimination. Tried and true process.

Then again, that includes teams elinating themselves.
 
#72
#72
IknoxvolsI said:
Something wasn't quite right.

Was it injuries?
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Injuries? Lol, again a team is not a stsrting 22, its the whole team. USC was not more talented than Tennessee, Vandy was not more talented than Tennessee. Plus the same team that got beat by a 5-6 vandy team beat a 9-3 Nebraska team.

You are right though, in all four years of CBJ being here, theres aways something that "wasnt quite right."
 
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#73
#73
VFL-82-JP said:
Your perspective misses an essential element of human nature, for most people.

Discipline is like the brake on your car. If you're not pushing on it, it's probably not engaged.

There are a rare few folks who have really strong self-discipline, do not need an external force (like a coach) constantly keeping them focused. Not very many of those among the 18-24 year old male population, though.

A program can have perfect discipline one year, and poor discipline the next, and good discipline again the next after. With many of the same players all three years. It's all a question of whether the coaches are keeping the players focused.

I'd say that our current coaching staff is really awesome at off-field discipline, keeping the focus on academic success, community service, staying out of trouble.

Their track record has been more spotty when it comes to on-field discipline. Some of the four squads we've fielded during the Butch years have shown great on-field discipline, and some....like 120...not so much.
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Id saw they rarely show much on the field discipline. A disciplined team doesnt give up that td to vandy in year one. Doesnt give up 4-14 td to Florida in year 3, usc and Vandy in year 4.
The trend is to always drop a game we should.
 
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