How well does Butch recruit?

#27
#27
Nationdom said:
Butch is a good recruiter, not great. Tennessee is one of the easiest places in the country try to recruit to and top 15 classes should be relatively easy.
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....but "easy" is a relative term. It is easier to recruit at florida, bama, lsu and georgia than it is at UT, because those programs are all in states with bigger pools of instate talent, in some cases much bigger. Throw a&m in there as well. So relative to our SEC rivals, I would not say UT is "easy" to recruit to. We've got to get more out-of-state recruits than florida and georgia and lsu, and that makes recruiting harder, not easier.
 
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#28
#28
UT Hill Man said:
You miss my point entirely - I'm not saying the classes have not been really good.

The point is Butch has recruited near top ten talent and yet struggled to break the top 25 in the final polls.

He has under achieved with the talent he has brought in.
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Of course he has...

Discounting injuries, lack of depth from previous coaches, the fact it takes more than four years to build to said depth to compete at a top 10 level year in and year out, I would agree with you.

However, two Top 25 finishes in the past two years is quite an accomplishment from the 5-7 years in recent memory.
 
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#29
#29
IMHO, it's not how well Butch recruits, but rather how well the coaching staff recruits working together. So often, more than one coach is involved with a recruit. I am excited about our new coaching additions and what they can do over time.
 
#30
#30
The class of '17 was a disappointment and some in-state players did get away but for the most part, Butch Jones has shown that he is a good recruiter and the class of '18 is shaping up very nicely especially on the defensive line.
 
#31
#31
UT Hill Man said:
You miss my point entirely - I'm not saying the classes have not been really good.

The point is Butch has recruited near top ten talent and yet struggled to break the top 25 in the final polls.

He has under achieved with the talent he has brought in.
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To be fair, those high ranking classes still had to develop. If the expectation is to finish in the polls near where the recruiting ranking for the class finished, then I'd say he's done better than expected.

The 2014 class will be seniors this year (minus redshirts) and, based on the line of thinking above, 2017 should be the year to expect a top10 finish.

Edit:
2012 recruiting class was 19 in the nation, 2015 season ended with UT ranked 21

2013 Tennessee finished ranked 25 in recruiting and finished 2016 ranked 22 in the polls.
 
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#32
#32
Like so much of what he does, his recruiting prowess is largely smoke and mirrors.

He had a good story to tell for the legacy class (that subsequently fell apart). He's largely fallen short since, and seems to have excessive attrition. Attribute that to whatever you want.
 
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#33
#33
It seems most 4 and 5* cruits since 14 class has either transfered, on the bench (under developed?), or hurt. All of it needs improving.
 
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#34
#34
'Boro-vol said:
Like so much of what he does, his recruiting prowess is largely smoke and mirrors.

He had a good story to tell for the legacy class (that subsequently fell apart). He's largely fallen short since, and seems to have excessive attrition. Attribute that to whatever you want.
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Nothing smoke and mirrors about back to back 9-4 seasons from where we were from '08-'12. He is not a miracle worker but he has improved the program.
 
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#37
#37
BowlBrother85 said:
No, the subject is recruiting... and the results on the field are in line with what he has signed (maybe one game off last season - at most).
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Recruiting aside...he has performed here at his career historic level, just over 8 wins per season. He could recruit the New England Patriots roster and history suggests that is where he'll be more often than not. Beating UF/UGA, and laying an egg against USC/VU is who he is, and why that average is what it is.

But we can always hope for more I guess.
 
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#38
#38
I think the assistants need more credit for recruiting then butch. Butch deserves the credit for hiring the asisstants though.
 
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#39
#39
Grudenator said:
I think the assistants need more credit for recruiting then butch. Butch deserves the credit for hiring the asisstants though.
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Can't disagree with that at all. I think Butch is self-aware enough of his coaching limitations to realize he cannot compete with lesser talent. It's a priority for him out of necessity. That's not a bad thing. Talent can make up for a lot of deficiencies.
 
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#40
#40
'Boro-vol said:
Like so much of what he does, his recruiting prowess is largely smoke and mirrors.

He had a good story to tell for the legacy class (that subsequently fell apart). He's largely fallen short since, and seems to have excessive attrition. Attribute that to whatever you want.
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What story is he telling the in-state kids? We have 5 of the top 9 committed.
 
#41
#41
K-town Vol Fan said:
What story is he telling the in-state kids? We have 5 of the top 9 committed.
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Don't know....ask him. Really, shouldn't the State institution, in the SEC, be able to pull those kids more often than not? They should be what your building around rather than what you are relying on to make your class.

And, as we've seen already multiple times this cycle (as well as last year), we are a long way from from signing day.
 
#42
#42
'Boro-vol said:
Don't know....ask him. Really, shouldn't the State institution, in the SEC, be able to pull those kids more often than not? They should be what your building around rather than what you are relying on to make your class.
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Yes, we should. And we havent done it since the late 90s. Give credit where its due.
 
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#43
#43
K-town Vol Fan said:
Yes, we should. And we havent done it since the late 90s. Give credit where its due.
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Again...get back to me on signing day. Or do we need to list all of the in-state players that have decommitted, or transferred under the current regime.

I'll give him this....he is MUCH better than his predecessor in this regard. I haven't heard that he has upset any HS coaches, or failed to contact the top recruit in the state.
 
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#45
#45
'Boro-vol said:
Again...get back to me on signing day. Or do we need to list all of the in-state players that have decommitted, or transferred under the current regime.

I'll give him this....he is MUCH better than his predecessor in this regard. I haven't heard that he has upset any HS coaches, or failed to contact the top recruit in the state.
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Please list the instate players that have decommitted. I am curious. What instate players, other than those who weren't good enough or who got into legal trouble, transferred? I don't believe either list is very long.
 
#47
#47
VolGee4 said:
Please list the instate players that have decommitted. I am curious. What instate players, other than those who weren't good enough or who got into legal trouble, transferred? I don't believe either list is very long.
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Top of my head....

2016

Emmit Gooden
Darel Middleton
Tim Hart
Dorian Banks

2017

Tee Higgins

2018

Shatar McClay

2019

Kendrell Scurry

I don't really have time to search for the transfers....obviously Vic Wharton and Happen Hurd come to mind. There's several more.

I'm sure there's an reason why none of these matter in the grand scheme.
 
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#48
#48
'Boro-vol said:
Top of my head....

2016

Emmit Gooden
Darel Middleton
Tim Hart
Dorian Banks

2017

Tee Higgins

2018

Shatar McClay

2019

Kendrell Scurry

I don't really have time to search for the transfers....obviously Vic Wharton and Happen Hurd come to mind. There's several more.

I'm sure there's an reason why none of these matter in the grand scheme.
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It's not that none of it matters but you can't just lump all of this together. There are reasons for these things happening. Gooden didn't qualify academically, and McClay probably won't either. How is that Butch's fault? Middleton and Banks were early decisions that either didn't develop or was a head case. Butch's MO is to take early commitments, provided that they pan out.

Scurry is TBD. Higgins and Hart are really the only two.

Anything to ***** about. The mantra of this forum.
 
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#49
#49
'Boro-vol said:
Again...get back to me on signing day. Or do we need to list all of the in-state players that have decommitted, or transferred under the current regime.

I'll give him this....he is MUCH better than his predecessor in this regard. I haven't heard that he has upset any HS coaches, or failed to contact the top recruit in the state.
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Haha, "get back to me on signing-day"?

This is the Twilight-Zone. Last cycle you guys were saying the exact opposite. The class wasn't looking great this time last year and all any of the negas could do was complain. Now that it's looking good, it's "Get back to me on signing-day". Good lawd.

The fact is that Jones has pulled in better classes, both in-state and throughout the country, than the previous coach - and it's not even close. In reality, he has recruited better than almost every other coach in the SEC.

What about attrition? Do people really believe UT is the only program that loses players or has highly-rated players that do not perform to expectations?

We're also not the only university with lower-rated prospects who over-perform.

All the gnashing of teeth will not change the fact that Jones has done a great job from where he started to where we are now.

I don't know how it is for you guys, but, looking at all the facts and considering the time frame, 2017 is the year UT should really do something. If he browns his pants this season, it will be very hard to ignore.
 
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#50
#50
VolGee4 said:
It's not that none of it matters but you can't just lump all of this together. There are reasons for these things happening. Gooden didn't qualify academically, and McClay probably won't either. How is that Butch's fault? Middleton and Banks were early decisions that either didn't develop or was a head case. Butch's MO is to take early commitments, provided that they pan out.

Scurry is TBD. Higgins and Hart are really the only two.

Anything to ***** about. The mantra of this forum.
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I knew I was over-stating it, and none of it actually mattered. I'm sure none of the out-of -state decommits matter either.....though it's a much longer list.

Thanks....I feel much better.
 
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