Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

[InVOLuntary]

Why wouldn't non believers need representation? To my knowledge they're the largest minority in the country without representation in congress.


I know I come across that way to some. It's a touchy subject and people don't like to hear that something they have faith in might be wrong. Just know that my intention isn't to mock or belittle. Just to have the dialogue/debate.

Lack of belief is just that. I don't believe in the Easter Bunny but I don't expect representation. I'm having trouble understanding how having a lack of believing in something needs some sort of representation. People of faith might need representation to protect their right to practice their faith but what does someone that doesn't believe in something need representation. I don't​ see anyone taking your right away to not believe in something​.

The problem with the way you come across is that have an intolerance for faith. No one that I've seen has tried to recruit you. No one has said condecending things to you about your stance, the Christians here have been full in a defensive posture.

 

[Rishvol]

Japanese people would love that quote lol they've built up a kind of mythology like they're the only country in the world with 4 seasons or something (even though it can be argued they've got 5 since there's a rainy season in early summer). I think they die a little inside anytime a foreigner tells them their country has four seasons too and just kinda shrugs it off like it's nothing special.


But yeah, I'm having fun with it. I get a lot of off time and have had chances to travel to other Asian countries for work/leisure as well, so I'm mostly content with it right now.

The 5 season thing can be true for all deciduous forests. You should bring them to Tennessee in late may and early June blow their minds that's it's the same lol. The two animals I want to see most in Japan (main reason I'd like to go) is a giant salamander (reason for the kappa myth) and a tanuki (real not myth) I'd also love to see the shrines (both the tourist traps and ones in the forest)

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Christians are called to give their testimony and witness to how God has saved them and blessed their lives. It brings glory to God and evidences the power that He has. If we did not give our testimony then many might not ever hear the good news of Jesus and not come to know Him. Besides, who doesn't like to hear how somebody was able to overcome a problem in their life and is now living well. Good news is rare these days according to most places we have to get our news from.

You ever feel like Paul at Mars hill?

 

[bignewt]

It is not just you, for sure. There are plenty of people who totally get turned off to all forms of religion when someone tries to witness to them. That is why I think that there are many ways to tell the story and to lead people to God. When I was much younger, if anyone tried to talk to me about Jesus, I turned away because I thought that they were trying to foist their beliefs on me. There are also some Christians who are terrible at this. I don't think that I am very good at it. I struggle still a good deal with my belief system and it has evolved a good deal in the last 20 years. There is no right or wrong way to try to get the message to people, though it is often extremely hard to figure out how to do it with some people.

Excellent post i can respect that struggle.

 

[Rishvol]

You ever feel like Paul at Mars hill?

I'm thinking more of Corinth (that's the correct church right?)

 

[bignewt]

I'm thinking more of Corinth (that's the correct church right?)

As long as its not westboro im cool with it.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Lack of belief is just that. I don't believe in the Easter Bunny but I don't expect representation. I'm having trouble understanding how having a lack of believing in something needs some sort of representation. People of faith might need representation to protect their right to practice their faith but what does someone that doesn't believe in something need representation. I don't​ see anyone taking your right away to not believe in something​.

Just because no one's trying to make non-belief illegal doesn't mean non-religious folk don't have interests that deserve representation. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about a large minority wanting to have a few people in the government who share their views. That's the Republican ideal pretty much.

The truth is that, as much as some Christians nowadays like to try and claim persecution because Wal Mart puts up "happy holidays" signs in December, Non-believers are still one of the most widely looked down upon groups in our country. wanna try a fun experiment, go on Facebook and post "I'm a Christian, God is great!" You'll get likes and comments from hundreds of friends. Post "I'm an atheist, there is no god" and an absolute s***storm will ensue in the comments and you'll likely lose at least a few of FB friends (not that that's the end of the world or anything...just an example of the vastly different response you'll get for stating belief/no belief).

The problem with the way you come across is that have an intolerance for faith. No one that I've seen has tried to recruit you. No one has said condecending things to you about your stance, the Christians here have been full in a defensive posture.

Just because I disagree with and question religion doesn't mean I have an intolerance. Where have I said condescending things to others about their stance? Disagreeing with something and explaining why isn't intolerance.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I'm thinking more of Corinth (that's the correct church right?)

Paul preached to a crowd at Mars Hill in Athens..They pretty much just went "Meh" as a group and walked away.

 

[Rishvol]

Paul preached to a crowd at Mars Hill in Athens..They pretty much just went "Meh" as a group and walked away.

I was talking about the letter he wrote to the church that was surrounded by sin and he was telling them to stay strong and keep their faith but yes I also agree with that one

 

[Glitch]

So a forum post, not anything peer reviewed. Got it.

The quote about the odds of life occurring randomly was quoted from a scientific journal. If you read far enough, you would have seen the quoted information.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

The quote about the odds of life occurring randomly was quoted from a scientific journal. If you read far enough, you would have seen the quoted information.

So I went back and read the source on that quote.

It's from a book called Evolution from Space by Fred Hoyle and N. Chandra Wickramasinghe.

The quoted section is them suggesting that the microorganisms on earth that spurred evolution must have come from somewhere besides earth.

In their book they argue for Panspermia, which is basically the hypothesis that life on earth (and elsewhere in the universe) was/is influenced by microorganisms from meteoroids, asteroids, comets and the like.

So...yeah, it's a quote from a scientist who doesn't believe that life evolved on its own on earth. But not because he's arguing creationism.

 

[Rishvol]

Not many scientists actually believe life started on earth many do think that the molecules that are needed for life came from a meteor but how life came to be on earth is highly debated.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Just because no one's trying to make non-belief illegal doesn't mean non-religious folk don't have interests that deserve representation. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about a large minority wanting to have a few people in the government who share their views. That's the Republican ideal pretty much.

The truth is that, as much as some Christians nowadays like to try and claim persecution because Wal Mart puts up "happy holidays" signs in December, Non-believers are still one of the most widely looked down upon groups in our country. wanna try a fun experiment, go on Facebook and post "I'm a Christian, God is great!" You'll get likes and comments from hundreds of friends. Post "I'm an atheist, there is no god" and an absolute s***storm will ensue in the comments and you'll likely lose at least a few of FB friends (not that that's the end of the world or anything...just an example of the vastly different response you'll get for stating belief/no belief).

Just because I disagree with and question religion doesn't mean I have an intolerance. Where have I said condescending things to others about their stance? Disagreeing with something and explaining why isn't intolerance.

My gosh, man! How much worse could you be saying you couldn't wait until a whole generation of older Christians died off so they would have less of an influence. That's no different than me saying I wish someone virus would hit all these younger godless sinners and wipe them off the Earth so maybe we Christians would have a greater influence on future generations.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Just because no one's trying to make non-belief illegal doesn't mean non-religious folk don't have interests that deserve representation. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about a large minority wanting to have a few people in the government who share their views. That's the Republican ideal pretty much.

The truth is that, as much as some Christians nowadays like to try and claim persecution because Wal Mart puts up "happy holidays" signs in December, Non-believers are still one of the most widely looked down upon groups in our country. wanna try a fun experiment, go on Facebook and post "I'm a Christian, God is great!" You'll get likes and comments from hundreds of friends. Post "I'm an atheist, there is no god" and an absolute s***storm will ensue in the comments and you'll likely lose at least a few of FB friends (not that that's the end of the world or anything...just an example of the vastly different response you'll get for stating belief/no belief).

Just because I disagree with and question religion doesn't mean I have an intolerance. Where have I said condescending things to others about their stance? Disagreeing with something and explaining why isn't intolerance.

Oh, and why would you feel it necessary to go post that you don't believe in something? Sounds like you are envious of people being a part of something.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

My gosh, man! How much worse could you be saying you couldn't wait until a whole generation of older Christians died off so they would have less of an influence. That's no different than me saying I wish someone virus would hit all these younger godless sinners and wipe them off the Earth so maybe we Christians would have a greater influence on future generations.

You're putting words in my mouth. I suggest you go back and re-read what I wrote. All I said was that when one generation passes on and the next becomes the middle aged portion of America, that the number of non believers would grow and things will change. You inferred the rest. That's on you for projecting those thoughts on another.


Pointing out that demographics will change as one generation passes to the next is VERY different wishing a virus would wipe out those with whom you disagree.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Oh, and why would you feel it necessary to go post that you don't believe in something? Sounds like you are envious of people being a part of something.

You missed the point here.

The point was that making a similar profession of two different beliefs in a public setting will garner very different results. One will get all encouragement or silence. One will likely cause an ordeal of arguments and comments. The point was that nonbeliever stating their opinions/beliefs is usually reacted to in a much more confrontational manner that discourages the stating of those beliefs.


Personally, I would never go and post on Facebook about my religious/non religious or even political beliefs. There's no motivation for me to do so and even if there was it wouldn't be worth the trouble of the backlash I'd get from it.

 

[InVOLuntary]

You're putting words in my mouth. I suggest you go back and re-read what I wrote. All I said was that when one generation passes on and the next becomes the middle aged portion of America, that the number of non believers would grow and things will change. You inferred the rest. That's on you for projecting those thoughts on another.


Pointing out that demographics will change as one generation passes to the next is VERY different wishing a virus would wipe out those with whom you disagree.

Sorry dude, your inference was it will be better when the generation prior to you passes on so there would be less of them. You just need to own it.

Look I'm sorry your parents, grand parents gave you a hard time because you don't share their views of the absence of God. But I can promise you they are concerned about your afterlife. Not for selfish reason but they legitamently​ care for you. They probably feel they were failures as well.

 

[Glitch]

So I went back and read the source on that quote.

It's from a book called Evolution from Space by Fred Hoyle and N. Chandra Wickramasinghe.

The quoted section is them suggesting that the microorganisms on earth that spurred evolution must have come from somewhere besides earth.

In their book they argue for Panspermia, which is basically the hypothesis that life on earth (and elsewhere in the universe) was/is influenced by microorganisms from meteoroids, asteroids, comets and the like.

So...yeah, it's a quote from a scientist who doesn't believe that life evolved on its own on earth. But not because he's arguing creationism.

Where did the microorganisms come from? Who created them? Life cannot suddenly happen. Something has to spark it. Matter swirling around endlessly together will not suddenly form itself into a life form. Even a very simple life form. The life on earth is so complex that there is no way that it could be some random natural occurance.

 

[InVOLuntary]

You missed the point here.

The point was that making a similar profession of two different beliefs in a public setting will garner very different results. One will get all encouragement or silence. One will likely cause an ordeal of arguments and comments. The point was that nonbeliever stating their opinions/beliefs is usually reacted to in a much more confrontational manner that discourages the stating of those beliefs.


Personally, I would never go and post on Facebook about my religious/non religious or even political beliefs. There's no motivation for me to do so and even if there was it wouldn't be worth the trouble of the backlash I'd get from it.

But you're missing the point. There are not two different beliefs. There is one belief and one lack of belief. Like I said earlier, I don't go around pumping my chest making statements about what I don't believe in. I don't go on Facebook and say I don't believe in the Easter Bunny or I don't believe in extraterrestrials or in the Boogeyman. I might say I do believe in something like I believe that there is a God.

And as to the Walmart stuff, if you don't believe that Christians are under attack, go watch old TV shows and movies. There has been an attack underway for a long time to remove any reference of Jesus from the holidays. They've been trying to remove Jesus from any part of everyday life. No praying at ball games. They do this under the pretence of not offending others at the expense of offending Christians.

 

[bignewt]

Facebook is the tool of the feeble minded.

 

[Vol464]

Facebook is the tool of the feeble minded.

I thought it was Volnation

 

[Glitch]

I thought it was Volnation

Only the FF.





And the Pub.

 

[jjay2518]

But you're missing the point. There are not two different beliefs. There is one belief and one lack of belief. Like I said earlier, I don't go around pumping my chest making statements about what I don't believe in. I don't go on Facebook and say I don't believe in the Easter Bunny or I don't believe in extraterrestrials or in the Boogeyman. I might say I do believe in something like I believe that there is a God.

And as to the Walmart stuff, if you don't believe that Christians are under attack, go watch old TV shows and movies. There has been an attack underway for a long time to remove any reference of Jesus from the holidays. They've been trying to remove Jesus from any part of everyday life. No praying at ball games. They do this under the pretence of not offending others at the expense of offending Christians.

What's wrong with someone discussing their lack of belief? He is just as justified in explaining his point of view as you are. It sounds like you just don't want to interact with someone who doesnt share your exact same point of view. The world would be pretty boring if everyone was the same.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

But you're missing the point. There are not two different beliefs. There is one belief and one lack of belief. Like I said earlier, I don't go around pumping my chest making statements about what I don't believe in. I don't go on Facebook and say I don't believe in the Easter Bunny or I don't believe in extraterrestrials or in the Boogeyman. I might say I do believe in something like I believe that there is a God.

1. This is semantics, because you can just as easily call atheism/agnosticism the belief that (insert religion here) is wrong.

2. The FB thing was just a hypothetical about how people react to two differing viewpoint. My main point was about representation and why non religious folk would want it. Not about posturing or chest puffing about those viewpoints.

3. I admit I'm taking the age old risk about assumptions here, but here goes:

I'm assuming you don't believe in climate change. Don't you want someone in congress who shares your lack of belief in climate change and can represent that?

And as to the Walmart stuff, if you don't believe that Christians are under attack, go watch old TV shows and movies. There has been an attack underway for a long time to remove any reference of Jesus from the holidays. They've been trying to remove Jesus from any part of everyday life. No praying at ball games. They do this under the pretence of not offending others at the expense of offending Christians.

The absence of references to Christianity is not an attack. This line of argument is contradicted by your earlier line somewhat.

Your faith is not under attack because people don't want a public prayer at a HS football game. People not wanting a government institution to endorse a religion is understandable, given that it's written into our constitution.

If you lived in a 70% majority Muslim neighborhood and the local high school had everybody face Mecca and pray to Allah before each football game, how would you feel, exactly?

Personally, I think the best thing to do at these events is give a moment of silence/reverence for people to reflect/pray/go to the bathroom according to their own personal beliefs/nonbeliefs.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Sorry dude, your inference was it will be better when the generation prior to you passes on so there would be less of them. You just need to own it.

Look I'm sorry your parents, grand parents gave you a hard time because you don't share their views of the absence of God. But I can promise you they are concerned about your afterlife. Not for selfish reason but they legitamently​ care for you. They probably feel they were failures as well.

1. I'm not sure you understand what the word inference means



2. I get why you feel threatened by the changing demographics, but there's no reason to misrepresent my words (that anybody can go back and read) because of it. If you read my initial post, it was talking about how nonbelievers often feel they can't speak out about their beliefs. I was saying that once one generation passes and another takes its place, that will likely change.


Saying things will be non believers will be more accepted once they're a larger minority is very, very different from the hateful equivalents you tried to put in my mouth.

3. My family has no ideas about my beliefs because I keep them to myself when I'm not on the internet or amongst friends I know don't care. I'm not exactly sure how they would react. They might flip out, they might be accepting. But I just don't bring it up and tag along to a service when I'm home if they want me to because I love them and don't want to cause them the grief that would go along with it all.