How many wins or Fahr CBJ

[BeecherVol]

So Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, or Jimbo Couldn't recruit well at Starkville?

Top Recruiters Recruit well regardless of the location!

Mullen isn't a household name in recruiting is why he doesn't recruit well in Starkville, I don't think his recruiting would improve enough to justify a change at Tennessee with Mullen as our coach.

No evidence tells me that he would be an improvement for the Tennessee program if you have some I would love to see it.

"Well" is relative to where.

State has never been known for drawing elite players and that didn't start with Mullen.

UT provided Dooley the ability to draw better players than he would have gotten had he landed in Starkville instead of Knoxville. And he was widely known to be an a$$ on the recruiting trail. Its not coincidence Dooley recruited better at UT. Location matters.

The on the field coaching and developing should make more sense given MSUs recruiting.

 

[sjt18]

Right, but nobody is boycotting a 9 win team. One guy mentioned it last year and he was slaughtered on here, by everyone.

Again, there is a context to the comment you responded to. I think Jones survives with 8+ regular season wins. I think the standard should be 8+... but it is probably 7. It could be 6 if the powers that be felt the "reasons" for such a poor showing justified a risk.

But the fans will make a ton of noise if UT finishes 7-5. That would probably mean UT lost all of its "big games"... and managed to lose to a clearly inferior roster.... again. Honestly, I think it would be even worse if he UT beat one of the big 4 then lost two games to the bottom 8.

That noise will influence the decision makers even if people haven't stopped showing up. At a minimum, Jones would be on notice.

But if you feel the need to boycott, ill take 4 lower bowl seats if you got em...to any game. Im no CBJ fan and think he is gone in 2 years (solely because i dont think he is a very good coach and cant get out of his own way) but Tennessee football has 1% to do with the current coach and 99% to do with the players on the field....thats who i support.

Its all speculation right now. I hope you and I are wrong and Jones is everything we all dream a UT coach should be.

We're just having fun arguing over "what ifs".

 

[LA Vol]

IDT UT will fire CBJ. If the season goes south, I think his agent will be working like hell to find him an HC job in a conference where it's easier to win or perhaps a stepping stone job in the NFL. IMO, CBJ will make every effort to avoid a high profile termination. He'll want to leave on his own terms, if it comes to that.

But there's a whole season to be played. The Vols have the same shot at winning the SECE as the other East teams. The staff has been upgraded and we've got new talent coming in, so let's see what they can do.

 

[BeecherVol]

IDT UT will fire CBJ. If the season goes south, I think his agent will be working like hell to find him an HC job in a conference where it's easier to win or perhaps a stepping stone job in the NFL. IMO, CBJ will make every effort to avoid a high profile termination. He'll want to leave on his own terms, if it comes to that.

But there's a whole season to be played. The Vols have the same shot at winning the SECE as the other East teams. The staff has been upgraded and we've got new talent coming in, so let's see what they can do.

Agree from start to finish.

 

[Behr]

But there's a whole season to be played. The Vols have the same shot at winning the SECE as the other East teams. The staff has been upgraded and we've got new talent coming in, so let's see what they can do.

Amen. Im really looking forward to it.

 

[volfanCLT]

I give Mullen full credit for Prescott, but he really hasn't developed much outside of the Prescott years. Mullen has a 9 year sample and it took him until year 6 to get that player development. Butch did it in 2 years with Dobbs. Sodoesn't that make Butch a better recruiter, evaluator of talent, and developer of talent?

Butch's smaller sample size looks better than Mullen's. There really isn't a comparison and I for one wouldn't trade Butch for Mullen.

The resumes of Dan Mullen and Butch Jones at their respective schools are not comparable.

Mullen has done much better at MSU than Jones has done at UT.

 

[BeecherVol]

The resumes of Dan Mullen and Butch Jones at their respective schools are not comparable.

Mullen has done much better at MSU than Jones has done at UT.

They are actually pretty similar.

The difference is, one is at a doormat in a tougher division. The other pretty much the opposite.

 

[volfanCLT]

They are actually pretty similar.

The difference is, one is at a doormat in a tougher division. The other pretty much the opposite.

Which is exactly why they aren't comparable, in my opinion

 

[BeardedVol]

They are actually pretty similar.

The difference is, one is at a doormat in a tougher division. The other pretty much the opposite.

Mullen has better overall and SEC win percentages in a tougher division with recruiting classes that average high 20s than CBJ at UT.

I'd say he's done more with less than CBJ. Recruiting is the only area CBJ has him beaten.

 

[BeecherVol]

Mullen has better overall and SEC win percentages in a tougher division with recruiting classes that average high 20s than CBJ at UT.

I'd say he's done more with less than CBJ. Recruiting is the only area CBJ has him beaten.

I agree with most of that.

State is not UT historically. Much tougher place to recruit and win.

 

[BeecherVol]

Which is exactly why they aren't comparable, in my opinion

Truth

 

[BeardedVol]

I agree with most of that.

State is not UT historically. Much tougher place to recruit and win.

True. If/when Mullen moves to a job at a higher profile school, it will be interesting to see if he gets an uptick in recruiting quality, or if he's just not the salesman type.

 

[volfanCLT]

Truth

Fun fact I discovered when looking up some historical Mississippi State football info.

They have 12 bowl wins in 122 years of football.

Mullen has 5 of those in 9 years.

 

[LA Vol]

It would be interesting to see what Mullen could do as HC at a school with more resources and higher expectations. He seems happy at MSU. His wife doesn't want to leave Starkville and I wonder if Mullen has come to appreciate the reduced pressure that comes with lower expectations. On one hand, he could take his career to the next level at a school like UT; OTOH, maybe he's not really looking for a bigger challenge right now. He already has a higher salary with lower expectations, so maybe he's found his sweet spot.

 

[BeardedVol]

It would be interesting to see what Mullen could do as HC at a school with more resources and higher expectations. He seems happy at MSU. His wife doesn't want to leave Starkville and I wonder if Mullen has come to appreciate the reduced pressure that comes with lower expectations. On one hand, he could take his career to the next level at a school like UT; OTOH, maybe he's not really looking for a bigger challenge right now. He already has a higher salary with lower expectations, so maybe he's found his sweet spot.

He was extended through 2021 at MSU. I'm surprised Jeremy Foley didn't take a run at him when Florida fired Muschamp.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

I agree with most of that.

State is not UT historically. Much tougher place to recruit and win.

Fixing to be easier the next 4/5 years.

 

[LA Vol]

He was extended through 2021 at MSU. I'm surprised Jeremy Foley didn't take a run at him when Florida fired Muschamp.

The extension made him the 5th highest paid coach in the SEC, IIRC. I think he put it out there that he wasn't interested in the UF job. Coaches deny interest all the time, but Mullen seems sincere in wanting to stay at MSU. He earns more than McElwain and MSU fans and admin are far more tolerant. Gotta live in Starkville, though.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

The extension made him the 5th highest paid coach in the SEC, IIRC. I think he put it out there that he wasn't interested in the UF job. Coaches deny interest all the time, but Mullen seems sincere in wanting to stay at MSU. He earns more than McElwain and MSU fans and admin are far more tolerant. Gotta live in Starkville, though.

Nah, Florida didn't want him. He was interested and even interviewed but they didn't want him. Rumor was because he was there when Newton and former (New England) TE were there.

 

[volfannbama]

Again, there is a context to the comment you responded to. I think Jones survives with 8+ regular season wins. I think the standard should be 8+... but it is probably 7. It could be 6 if the powers that be felt the "reasons" for such a poor showing justified a risk.

But the fans will make a ton of noise if UT finishes 7-5. That would probably mean UT lost all of its "big games"... and managed to lose to a clearly inferior roster.... again. Honestly, I think it would be even worse if he UT beat one of the big 4 then lost two games to the bottom 8.

That noise will influence the decision makers even if people haven't stopped showing up. At a minimum, Jones would be on notice.


Its all speculation right now. I hope you and I are wrong and Jones is everything we all dream a UT coach should be.

We're just having fun arguing over "what ifs".

Oh for sure on the what ifs. Im no CBJ fan simply because i dont think he is a good football coach. But he had done enough to where he is not getting fired this year, no matter what. Maybe if we only win 4-5 games. But i think talent alone wins that. Personally, i think we win 7 maybe 8 this year. Based on players lost last year, CBJ gets another year.

Given my luck we will end up in the Sugar Bowl this year and i wont be able to go. Ive always wanted to attend a Sugar Bowl. But this year, a dream comes true as my son and I have Navy/Army tickets and if i could only pick one sporting event to attend it would be that game.

 

[jeffmcflurry27]

This is a dumb post!!! Not only is it dumb, but it is destructive to the very football team you profess to love! You know we are recruiting at a very high level right now, and then you make such an idiotic post! How is a post like this going to help? Thread should be deleted!

Relax, brother.

 

[johnrlansford]

Mullen has better overall and SEC win percentages in a tougher division with recruiting classes that average high 20s than CBJ at UT.

I'd say he's done more with less than CBJ. Recruiting is the only area CBJ has him beaten.

SEC record after 4 years at the school:
Butch 14-18
Mullen 13-19

Mullen's win percentage is only higher that Butch'd because he has a longer tenure to compare at 9 years versus Butch's 4 years. Do a side by side first 4 year comparison and Butch wins. Stats can prove whatever you want them too.

Butch will have more wins than Mullen in SEC play after this year and for his career when they are finished. Dan Mullen won't do much outside of his time at MSU and I wouldn't trade him for Butch right now no matter what crazy excuse you come up with.

Just because Starkville isn't a prime job, a good coach/recruiter would recruit well there. Mullen has been bottom of the SEC and that has as much to do with Mullen as it does Starkville. Saban, Meyer, or Jimbo Fisher wouldn't have any problems recruiting to Starkville.

This conversation is ridiculous, NegaVols are criticizing a guy who took us from one of the worst situations Tennessee football has ever been in to a competitive program again. Can we be better yes but that doesn't happen overnight. I am not a Butch lover but I look at things in context and he is doing a great job for what he has had to overcome. Trade him right now for another unknown and get another 10 years of recovery.

The article that came out a few months ago was right about Tennessee fans, we are the most unrealistic fanbase in the nation, well atleast the outspoken majority that gives the rest of us a bad name!

 

[BeardedVol]

SEC record after 4 years at the school:
Butch 14-18
Mullen 13-19

Mullen's win percentage is only higher that Butch'd because he has a longer tenure to compare at 9 years versus Butch's 4 years. Do a side by side first 4 year comparison and Butch wins. Stats can prove whatever you want them too.

Um...no. That's not how percentages work. His winning percentage is higher, because over his time at MSU, he has won SEC games at a higher rate than CBJ.

Mullen: 29-35: 29/64=.453
CBJ: 14-18: 14/32=.438

29 out of 64, is a higher percentage than 14 out of 32. It's basic math.

Butch will have more wins than Mullen in SEC play after this year and for his career when they are finished. Dan Mullen won't do much outside of his time at MSU and I wouldn't trade him for Butch right now no matter what crazy excuse you come up with.

A. You can't say that with surety.
B. Even if you could, it would have zero relevance in a discussion about whether or not Dan Mullen has currently had a better run at MSU, than CBJ currently has at UT.

Just because Starkville isn't a prime job, a good coach/recruiter would recruit well there. Mullen has been bottom of the SEC and that has as much to do with Mullen as it does Starkville. Saban, Meyer, or Jimbo Fisher wouldn't have any problems recruiting to Starkville.

So you think Saban got the same level recruits when he was at Michigan State as he did at LSU and does now at Alabama?

How about Butch. You think CBJ got the same level of recruits at CMU and Cincinnati as he does at UT?

It takes some serious suspension of disbelief to state that the school and location don't play heavily into ability to recruit top athletes.

This conversation is ridiculous, NegaVols are criticizing a guy who took us from one of the worst situations Tennessee football has ever been in to a competitive program again. Can we be better yes but that doesn't happen overnight. I am not a Butch lover but I look at things in context and he is doing a great job for what he has had to overcome. Trade him right now for another unknown and get another 10 years of recovery.

The article that came out a few months ago was right about Tennessee fans, we are the most unrealistic fanbase in the nation, well atleast the outspoken majority that gives the rest of us a bad name!

You can disregard reality all you want, but regardless of how much time Mullen has been at MSU, and CBJ has been at UT, Mullen has done equal or better in both overall winning percentage, and SEC winning percentage, in a tougher division, with much less talent onhand than CBJ. I guess Dan Mullen's historical win percentage can now be classified as a NegaVol™ in your book since it stands in direct contrast to your CoB™ narrative.

 

[johnrlansford]

He was extended through 2021 at MSU. I'm surprised Jeremy Foley didn't take a run at him when Florida fired Muschamp.

That should be telling...

 

[johnrlansford]

Um...no. That's not how percentages work. His winning percentage is higher, because over his time at MSU, he has won SEC games at a higher rate than CBJ.

Mullen: 29-35: 29/64=.453
CBJ: 14-18: 14/32=.438

29 out of 64, is a higher percentage than 14 out of 32. It's basic math.



A. You can't say that with surety.
B. Even if you could, it would have zero relevance in a discussion about whether or not Dan Mullen has currently had a better run at MSU, than CBJ currently has at UT.



So you think Saban got the same level recruits when he was at Michigan State as he did at LSU and does now at Alabama?

How about Butch. You think CBJ got the same level of recruits at CMU and Cincinnati as he does at UT?

It takes some serious suspension of disbelief to state that the school and location don't play heavily into ability to recruit top athletes.



You can disregard reality all you want, but regardless of how much time Mullen has been at MSU, and CBJ has been at UT, Mullen has done equal or better in both overall winning percentage, and SEC winning percentage, in a tougher division, with much less talent onhand than CBJ. I guess Dan Mullen's historical win percentage can now be classified as a NegaVol™ in your book since they stand it stands in direct contrast to your CoB™ narrative.

Ok so for Butch's head coaching career he is 47-30 in conference play that is a .613 winning percetage and that is far greater than Mullens conference records as a head coach. See stats can don't always tell the whole story do they?

You can say whatever you want about it not being a SEC record but the fact is that a coach is hired to beat the teams on his schedule and that is what Butch has done during his coaching tenure. He has won at a high level at every stop he has been at and if he hadn't walked into Post-Dooley he would be better in the SEC record as well just based on History. That is subjective but it would be supported by trends. I am not saying he would be winning the conference against Saban but atleast he would have been in a better situation than he is now.

Mullen has been passed on every job that his name has surfaced on, Penn State, Florida, and Oregon. Those are big time programs far greater than Starkville historically.

I believe that no one in the coaching world really believes that he has shown he can win a big program and that is why he is getting passed by what some would view as lesser coaches.

You are so excited about the possibilty of anyone but Butch Jones coaching at Tennessee that your hate is blinding you!

 

[BeardedVol]

Ok so for Butch's head coaching career he is 47-30 in conference play that is a .613 winning percetage and that is far greater than Mullens conference records as a head coach. See stats can don't always tell the whole story do they?

You can say whatever you want about it not being a SEC record but the fact is that a coach is hired to beat the teams on his schedule and that is what Butch has done during his coaching tenure. He has won at a high level at every stop he has been at and if he hadn't walked into Post-Dooley he would be better in the SEC record as well just based on History. That is subjective but it would be supported by trends. I am not saying he would be winning the conference against Saban but atleast he would have been in a better situation than he is now.

Mullen has been passed on every job that his name has surfaced on, Penn State, Florida, and Oregon. Those are big time programs far greater than Starkville historically.

I believe that no one in the coaching world really believes that he has shown he can win a big program and that is why he is getting passed by what some would view as lesser coaches.

You are so excited about the possibilty of anyone but Butch Jones coaching at Tennessee that your hate is blinding you!

So since the numbers aren't in CBJ's favor, you want to change the comparison from Mullen's record at MSU vs. CBJ'S at UT, to CBJ's entire career? Lol...classic goal post move.