espn on UT QB battle...

[Zues1]

And it might be after this year. If Mitch Trabisky can go top 5 I wouldnt be shocked if QD has a 1st round draft grade if he has a good season.

So just like that QD is suddenly a 1st round NFL pick?

Brakes firmly applied:crazy:

 

[05_never_again]

Hurd's situation was a lot more complicated than not winning a competition for an open position. The opposite is closer to being true. CBJ let Hurd be too much of a prima donna.

Not really. He was unhappy (how he was being used), so he left. It happens all the time; maybe not mid-season like Hurd, but happens. You have really talented, highly touted kids who have been told they are the greatest thing since sliced bread since they were 5 years old, and when something doesn't quite go their way they leave.

Guys leave all the time who don't win competitions for open positions, especially at QB. I'm not saying JG will, because I don't know his makeup or personality, but I can't say I'd be stunned if he transferred at some point. A lot of it will probably depend on what Butch and the coaching staff has told him and how JG has interpreted things that the coaching staff has told him about his role.

 

[sjt18]

No. But I have seen him stand next to Dobbs who measured in at 6'3.5" 216 lbs at the combine. And Dormady looked a good inch taller and had more weight on him. I expect Dormady to measure in at around 6'4.5" 225 lbs whenever he gets to the combine.

6'2" QBs might be common but guys who are 6'4"+ with canon arms like Dormady are not common.

Yeah... they really are. Not that I expect you to ever research facts or admit you are wrong.

Bray's problem was above the neck. Dormady has no such problems. He's smart, mature, and a hard worker.

You have no way of knowing that nor do I. I probably like Dormady and JG as much as you. I'm just realistic about how they fit in the world of college football.

Dormady doesn't have nearly the arm talent Bray had. UT hasn't had a QB except maybe Shuler with that kind of accurate arm strength.

Remember in 2015 he was one of the first freshmen to lose his stripe. He's also made no headlines for any of the wrong reasons the last 2 years.

Wow. You just get more and more irrelevant all the time, don't you?

You should know better than to make such an comparison.

Probably.... because you simply lack the ability to follow facts and sound reasoning.

 

[sjt18]

Not really.

Yeah. Really. I know you staked out some ground and don't want to be wrong but you are. Healthy, top tier programs have guys like Dormady and JG... guys with significant talent who could start early elsewhere... working as understudies for 2 or 3 years before starting for two.

Hurd started from the day he stepped on campus. Jones gave him the privilege of simply taking days off in August before last season. He had become a prima donna. As a recruit, Jones rightly or wrong told the world that Hurd was the center piece of "putting UT back where it belongs". Hurd... heard.

I personally have no doubt that Hurd felt there was a commitment after the Northwestern game to implement more I formation runs for him in 2016. That plus the UGA fumble, Kamara's increasing role, Dobbs' emergence as the central piece of the offense... all played together. That is completely different from not winning an open job and having to work as a back up for a year or two.

You have really talented, highly touted kids who have been told they are the greatest thing since sliced bread since they were 5 years old, and when something doesn't quite go their way they leave.

And like I said... if that's the kind of QB you routinely recruit... you aren't going to be very successful. Your "CEO" has to be more stable and mature and be a better leader than that.

A lot of it will probably depend on what Butch and the coaching staff has told him and how JG has interpreted things that the coaching staff has told him about his role.

We can be pretty sure of what Jones told him.... because Jones has said several times in different ways what he tells them. He told him he'd have an opportunity to compete for the starting job and playing time. Again, if a kid takes a guarantee out of something like that... then it is the wrong kind of kid.

 

[sjt18]

Sjt, this is impossible to defend. Of course, when a QB tucks it and runs the OL has to scramble and protection fizzles. But man, Josh Dobbs redeemed one of the worst OLs in the history of UT football. His legs absolutely saved that OL from complete derision by fans. Jones knew it and had to w Josh. Peterman most likely saw that handwritten on the wall too. Only in an alternative universe could one say Dobbs was cause of our OLs problems.

That explains 2014. Not the last two years when the OL improved and matured.

It isn't impossible to defend. If you've ever blocked for a QB or RB... it is experience.

 

[savannahfan]

"Also consider the fact that with a limited spring game, Guarantano wasn't able to run or get out of trouble the way he would in a real game."

I find this quote from the article interesting. It's clearly the prevailing thought and conventional wisdom.

However, Iirc, both of the times JG was "sacked" in the abbreviated spring game was when he tucked the ball and was trying to escape the pocket. Perhaps JG will indeed prove to be a great scrambler/runner, but I'm exercising caution until I actually see it and I don't think it wise to assume he will be until he shows it.

And, quite honestly, I think anybody who just assumes he'll have the elite running skills of Josh Dobbs is setting themselves up for disappointment.

"Dobbs running skills"
Thinking back over his time on the hill, Josh was such a good runner, I didn't really understand just how good he was. Only now and then did he "wow" you, he just so easily and with effortless grace made and ended his runs successfully, it was hard to be impressed at the time they happened. However, thinking back and watching game reruns, well, not many anywhere or anytime have been better.

 

[jakez4ut]

"Dobbs running skills"
Thinking back over his time on the hill, Josh was such a good runner, I didn't really understand just how good he was. Only now and then did he "wow" you, he just so easily and with effortless grace made and ended his runs successfully, it was hard to be impressed at the time they happened. However, thinking back and watching game reruns, well, not many anywhere or anytime have been better.

i get that sentiment. you watch it as it happens, and you think man, that's great....but you don't look at it and think it's something you can count on, game in, game out. so many of the 'wow' runs were on broken plays, it's hard to put a finger on that and say "yeah, we can rely on that".

then he just keeps doing it. game after game. and you realize, oh, ok, this is how it is....looking back now, it's easier to see, than it was when it was happening.

to me, that just goes back to what you think you should be able to 'rely on' from an execution standpoint. you tend to rely on good blocking, good vision, good play calling...you know, good execution.

it's the rarity that you realize you're relying on a guy, in many cases, to turn chicken s**t, in to chicken salad.

and then he does. over and over.

 

[savannahfan]

i get that sentiment. you watch it as it happens, and you think man, that's great....but you don't look at it and think it's something you can count on, game in, game out. so many of the 'wow' runs were on broken plays, it's hard to put a finger on that and say "yeah, we can rely on that".

then he just keeps doing it. game after game. and you realize, oh, ok, this is how it is....looking back now, it's easier to see, than it was when it was happening.

to me, that just goes back to what you think you should be able to 'rely on' from an execution standpoint. you tend to rely on good blocking, good vision, good play calling...you know, good execution.

it's the rarity that you realize you're relying on a guy, in many cases, to turn chicken s**t, in to chicken salad.

and then he does. over and over.

I did not say or try to imply that Josh's runs were "the way the play was called". Only that he was a very talented runner. "Relying" on that ability was not my point or aim with the post. I DO AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY.
However, making chicken salad so often sure was better than things could have been with someone at QB of a lesser ability to mix and blend the salad.

 

[jakez4ut]

I did not say or try to imply that Josh's runs were "the way the play was called". Only that he was a very talented runner. "Relying" on that ability was not my point or aim with the post. I DO AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY.
However, making chicken salad so often sure was better than things could have been with someone at QB of a lesser ability to mix and blend the salad.

ok. of course it was better than the alternative. just my thoughts on it.

 

[chuck0303]

JG is probably going to transfer if it appears Dormady has won the job.

Is JG stupid? I doubt it. I think most people underestimate Dormady. This kid can play. Let's hope we have a decent O line. we don't need any of our QBs to be running for their lives. Quinten can make plays with his feet although not as fast as Dobbs. But then, who is? What will slow down the rush? Dormady's arm & accuracy as long as we have receivers who can catch the ball. Unless Dormady collapses in the fall he should have the job.

 

[05_never_again]

Yeah. Really. I know you staked out some ground and don't want to be wrong but you are. Healthy, top tier programs have guys like Dormady and JG... guys with significant talent who could start early elsewhere... working as understudies for 2 or 3 years before starting for two.

No, it really isn't. Every recruit, especially the highly recruited guys, is told a story by the coaches recruiting them. Every single one. It is how they sell kids, because with rare exceptions (their dad played for that school, they were born and raised in the city where the school is and grew up dreaming to play for them) kids go to schools for coaches and because they liked the guy who recruited them. The institution itself is secondary.

Do you think JG, or any other kid, is there primarily because they love Tennessee as an institution, or the history and tradition of the program, or because they found the recruiter's sale pitch to be the best? Especially kids who aren't from Knoxville or middle/east Tennessee?

In Hurd's case, the "story" he had been told didn't line up in his mind with what actually transpired, so he left. Perhaps Butch put too much sheen on the story, Hurd construed Butch's comments to be some sort of iron-clad guarantee when they really weren't, or a little of both. It doesn't matter what the story itself is; if it doesn't play out according to how they've built it up in their mind, some kids will leave.

 

[chuck0303]

bUTch is probably aware of this, so even though he knows who his choice already is, he will make it look competitive.
He will allow both to play in the Georgia Tech game and the first four games, then he will announce the starter.
At that point, it will be too late for either to salvage the season and transfer.
One may get hurt and force the other to be the starter...Ya never know how these things will shake out.

Young freshman who appears to be the future of U.T. and can give us 4 seasons or a player who has been in the system for several seasons but is a junior with only two seasons to give the program?????????????-

If a QB is a starter and is really that outstanding he won't be playing for 4 seasons before going to the NFL. One season does not a QB make. Where else is a college QB going to get the experience they really need but on the college stage? That's why the NFL teams want at least 3 years and prefer 4 years of proven performance and that extra experience they receive.

 

[BigBadVol]

From: KBVol
"And, quite honestly, I think anybody who just assumes he'll have the elite running skills of Josh Dobbs is setting themselves up for disappointment."

Couldn't agree more! Dobbs was an elite runner with speed, elusiveness and strength. The dude was hard to bring down.

 

[KBVol]

"Dobbs running skills"
Thinking back over his time on the hill, Josh was such a good runner, I didn't really understand just how good he was. Only now and then did he "wow" you, he just so easily and with effortless grace made and ended his runs successfully, it was hard to be impressed at the time they happened. However, thinking back and watching game reruns, well, not many anywhere or anytime have been better.

Very well said. He wasn't the fastest or quickest yet most couldn't catch him. He was tall and thin, yet ran with far more strength and power than should be expected. Finally, along with great running instincts, he had the one intangible running the ball that you can't really define nor can you teach....he was "slippery", he just made guys miss him, a lot.

 

[sjt18]

No, it really isn't. Every recruit, especially the highly recruited guys, is told a story by the coaches recruiting them. Every single one. It is how they sell kids, because with rare exceptions (their dad played for that school, they were born and raised in the city where the school is and grew up dreaming to play for them) kids go to schools for coaches and because they liked the guy who recruited them. The institution itself is secondary.

That isn't true according to what recruits say... and especially when the coach that's been recruiting them gets fired. Usually there aren't many who drop their commitments. But you really didn't even answer the point. You answered a point I didn't make and ignored the one I did make.

Do you think JG, or any other kid, is there primarily because they love Tennessee as an institution, or the history and tradition of the program, or because they found the recruiter's sale pitch to be the best? Especially kids who aren't from Knoxville or middle/east Tennessee?

There are as many different reasons as their are players and then some. After becoming part of the team, the foxhole mentality sets in with most. They have relationships and commitments to each other that are hard to walk away from most of the time.

But when you recruit a QB, you want him to be mature enough to work as a back up so that he's ready when it comes his time. QD would not have been ready to play two years ago. Whether JG realizes it or not, he's not ready either. When they have to play before they're ready there is a significantly higher chance of bad things happening to them. Some get injured. Some like Ainge have their confidence shattered.

Kids will leave the program. QB's will leave the program. But when you are recruiting the right kind of QB... even the talented ones will be willing to develop behind another good QB before starting. That apparently isn't that hard of a sale... since that's how most top tier programs do it.

 

[CountVolcula]

I bet this offense runs a two QB system. They both bring something different to the table.

Hopefully Butch isnt that stupid

 

[05_never_again]

That isn't true according to what recruits say... and especially when the coach that's been recruiting them gets fired. Usually there aren't many who drop their commitments. But you really didn't even answer the point. You answered a point I didn't make and ignored the one I did make.

I'm not sure what your point is, other than you don't think JG would transfer if he lost the position battle.

Also, kids drop their commitments all the time when coaches get fired, but you also have to remember that coaches on the hot seat are really only able to recruit kids for that class who are OK with staying at the school if the coach does get fired.

 

[sjt18]

I'm not sure what your point is, other than you don't think JG would transfer if he lost the position battle.

My points are two and simple. One, healthy top tier programs have more than one quality QB on the roster at the same time. It is the norm for those programs to have a guy like QD develpp behind Dobbs for 2-3 years before starting then a guy like JG to develop behind QD (if that turns out to be the case) for a couple of years before starting and so on. Two, if Jones is recruiting and finding the right kinds of QB's then they understand this process and see how it benefits them in the long run both in opportunities to win at the college level and make a great impression on NFL scouts.

We should not have this automatic handwringing all the time assuming that UT isn't good enough to have two starter quality QB's on the same roster.

Also, kids drop their commitments all the time when coaches get fired, but you also have to remember that coaches on the hot seat are really only able to recruit kids for that class who are OK with staying at the school if the coach does get fired.

A few do. The vast majority don't. Even a narcissist like Lane Kiffin said it was important to recruit a kid to the school rather than to a coach.

 

[sjt18]

I bet this offense runs a two QB system. They both bring something different to the table.

If a two QB system would work... everyone would do it.

I would like to see UT give JG some competitive game series if he isn't the starter but a 2 QB system has long been a recipe for disaster.

 

[05_never_again]

We should not have this automatic handwringing all the time assuming that UT isn't good enough to have two starter quality QB's on the same roster.

Except that it isn't, at least not right now anyway.

At primetime programs freshmen know what the deal is and are probably more willing to redshirt and sit. Tennessee has a long way to go to reach that kind of clout.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Very well said. He wasn't the fastest or quickest yet most couldn't catch him. He was tall and thin, yet ran with far more strength and power than should be expected. Finally, along with great running instincts, he had the one intangible running the ball that you can't really define nor can you teach....he was "slippery", he just made guys miss him, a lot.

And he was durable.

 

[KBVol]

And he was durable.

Incredibly so

 

[sjt18]

Except that it isn't, at least not right now anyway.

At primetime programs freshmen know what the deal is and are probably more willing to redshirt and sit. Tennessee has a long way to go to reach that kind of clout.

If that's the approach then UT will never get to that level. UT is at that level and it is no secret here that I have serious doubts about Jones.

I said top tier programs but it really isn't even that limited. Programs that do have that problem a lot... also have problems at the HC position. TA&M for instance.

 

[Coug]

There is no battle. Don't let the media fool you. It is Dormady.

JG will be backup but will see playing time this year in the second string.

 

[sjt18]

There is no battle. Don't let the media fool you. It is Dormady.

JG will be backup but will see playing time this year in the second string.

And if he's smart and Jones has managed the relationship well then he will stay, learn, and be as ready as Dormady appears to be when it comes his time to start.