Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

#351
#351
Your words don't determine how good, or bad of a coach you are. It's ridiculous that some make Butch seem like a worse coach than he is just because of things he says to the media. We all know if Butch wouldn't have used coach speak and been honest with the media his whole time here he wouldn't be viewed as negative as he is right now.
 
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#353
#353
No, there aren't 50 coaches in the NCAA better than CBJ, it's a stupid ranking. The SEC is it's on animal. Look at CBJ's record before he came to the SEC, Bielema, Sumlin, etc. The SEC eats its own and quite frankly most of the guys on that list wouldn't fair any better if they were the coach at UT or any other SEC school.
 
#354
#354
Smokey123 said:
Your words don't determine how good, or bad of a coach you are. It's ridiculous that some make Butch seem like a worse coach than he is just because of things he says to the media. We all know if Butch wouldn't have used coach speak and been honest with the media his whole time here he wouldn't be viewed as negative as he is right now.
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Which is why using Pop or K as examples of hypocrisy doesn't equate. There is a substantial difference between those 2 as coaches and Jones.
 
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#355
#355
The real issue isn't whether Butch Jones is the 52nd best coach, or the 42nd, or even the 32nd. Even his defenders seem to concede he's outside the top 25 looking in.

The real issue is, when you are (or should be) a top 10 program, why are you happy with the guy who is the 32nd (or 42nd or 52nd) best coach in college football?
 
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#356
#356
landscapingvol said:
No, there aren't 50 coaches in the NCAA better than CBJ, it's a stupid ranking. The SEC is it's on animal. Look at CBJ's record before he came to the SEC, Bielema, Sumlin, etc. The SEC eats its own and quite frankly most of the guys on that list wouldn't fair any better if they were the coach at UT or any other SEC school.
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The leagues coaching talent has dropped over the years. Saban has played a big part in that.
 
#357
#357
Smokey123 said:
Your words don't determine how good, or bad of a coach you are. It's ridiculous that some make Butch seem like a worse coach than he is just because of things he says to the media. We all know if Butch wouldn't have used coach speak and been honest with the media his whole time here he wouldn't be viewed as negative as he is right now.
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the same mentality that allows one to spew some of the ridiculous stuff he's said, is the same mentality that used 'the chart'.

no, it's not THE reason. but as a symptom, yeah, it's an indicator of what you're dealing with.

so you get choose...he's really just a simpleton that clings to familiar, repeatable catch phrases cause he's not capable of speaking intelligently on the subject matter....or he's really just ahead of the curve, and it's all part of the grand master plan and it's all about the process, and this is just part of it...or he's really just oblivious to the fact that he's doing more harm than good, regardless of how well intentioned he may actually be.

i honestly don't think it's the first one. i've not seen the results to say it's just part of the process, so i'm left with leaning toward option 3.

as to your last point....i agree. a little honesty and ownership for the failures, a little less deflection and spin, would go a long way.
 
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#358
#358
BeardedVol said:
But not so important that you feel the need to spend precious moments away from them defending any and all criticism of Butch Jones, real or imagined, just or unjust?

No matter how much you want it to be so, CBJ will not be coaching at UT in 2020 if his conference record stays at it's current level, or continues to trend downward. Repeating to yourself that he'll still be here won't help that fact. Butch owes Dave Hart for 2017, but his record will have to stand unaided after this season.
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I work for the government, I have time during the day. Just keep paying your taxes bearded! 😁
 
#359
#359
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I have a family that's way more important to sit on here and put down the only coach that wanted to come to this dumpster fire.

I'm not moaning, I love ruffling your feathers considering your such an easy target that responds with a 10 page book for a post. Year 2020 and you will be here at the same time and Butch will still be your coach. Lol
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Prove that statement. UT could have hired a number of coaches at Jones' level for the same money and could have gone after a proven P5 coach with a million or two more in salary.

If Jones doesn't improve significantly and is still at UT in 2020... then we'll know that UT's leadership's standard is well below winning championships or having a top tier program. Sadly, many fans such as yourself seem to already be on board with that.
 
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#361
#361
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I work for the government, I have time during the day. Just keep paying your taxes bearded! 😁
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Whoa, what are you doing on here? Shouldn't you be spending time with your family?

Also, you work for the government? Well that explains some things....
 
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#362
#362
Smokey123 said:
Which is my point.... It's hypocrisy. Popavich and Butch said almost the same thing, yet one was praised for those words, the other was called a laughing stock and a fake coach.
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Smokey123 said:
Which is hypocrisy, having a ring or no ring doesn't change the meaning of words. Popavich was PRAISED for what he said by the media and by fans. Butch was laughed at for months for what he said when they both said almost the same thing.
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What planet do you live on? This is what happens in the real world...people are judged differently.

For example, you and I both get pulled over for going 100 on the interstate. Your record is squeaky clean and mine is a mess. Society (the system) will judge and punish you far less than what I would receive based on what's happened in the past.

Apply that to sports...Pops, Coach K, & Saban can say whatever they want because of their trophy case.

You may not like it, but that's life.
 
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#363
#363
BeecherVol said:
The leagues coaching talent has dropped over the years. Saban has played a big part in that.
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No one has consistently beaten Saban on a regular basis and the only one that has had any success against him whatsoever left the conference. You can't judge another coach's ability simply because he hasn't been able to beat arguably the greatest coach of all time. After all, that is the measuring stick for CBJ. You can't say he hasn't been able to beat UGA, SC, or UF. And if that is the measuring stick for CBJ then it has to be the measuring stick when comparing other coaches. The fact that UT pretty much starts the season with an SEC loss is a major determinant in winning the East. Essentially UT has to go undefeated in the rest of their SEC play to any shot at winning the East. UF, UGA, and SC have the luxury of losing one of those games and still win the East; UT doesn't.
 
#364
#364
sjt18 said:
Prove that statement. UT could have hired a number of coaches at Jones' level for the same money and could have gone after a proven P5 coach with a million or two more in salary.

If Jones doesn't improve significantly and is still at UT in 2020... then we'll know that UT's leadership's standard is well below winning championships or having a top tier program. Sadly, many fans such as yourself seem to already be on board with that.
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There is no coach at any level going to outwork Butch Jones. I doubt the man sleeps more than 4 hours a night.
 
#365
#365
KBVol said:
Who's, what are you doing on here? Shouldn't you be spending time with your family?

Also, you work for the government? Well that explains some things....
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Pay those taxes KB, I have a 2 month old 32in 4k monitor I need to replace!
 
#366
#366
landscapingvol said:
No one has consistently beaten Saban on a regular basis and the only one that has had any success against him whatsoever left the conference. You can't judge another coach's ability simply because he hasn't been able to beat arguably the greatest coach of all time. After all, that is the measuring stick for CBJ. You can't say he hasn't been able to beat UGA, SC, or UF. And if that is the measuring stick for CBJ then it has to be the measuring stick when comparing other coaches. The fact that UT pretty much starts the season with an SEC loss is a major determinant in winning the East. Essentially UT has to go undefeated in the rest of their SEC play to any shot at winning the East. UF, UGA, and SC have the luxury of losing one of those games and still win the East; UT doesn't.
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2 things, he's not comparing CBJ to SAban, as much as he saying that some of the programs in the conference may be....as we've seen, the turnover the last 5-6 years in the conf at the HC position has been high, putting it mildly. and for all of those programs that have made changes, how many would you say are "good" with what they've got? KY? Vandy? USCe? Ms St? at almost every other program, there's at least questions, if not full on hot seats.

not all of it a direct reflection on the inability to beat Bama, but safe to say, it hasn't helped. and it certainly hasn't proven to upgrade the overall coaching ability in the conf. it's definitely not as strong as it was 10 years ago.

2nd, the schedule is what it is and has been that way for more than 20 years. and at this point, if we're not ready for September (and generally, we haven't been considering our record against FL), who's that really on?

not the schedule makers.
 
#367
#367
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Pay those taxes KB, I have a 2 month old 32in 4k monitor I need to replace!
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Sounds about right. You sit on your lazy ass with a government job that demands no accountability while guys like me go out and bust it with real jobs that ultimately pay your measley little "salary".

Again, you're admission that you work for the government explains a lot about how you come across through your posts.
 
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#369
#369
Orange_Vol1321 said:
There is no coach at any level going to outwork Butch Jones. I doubt the man sleeps more than 4 hours a night.
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Ummm... proof? There are a lot of hard working coaches. Give me a coach that is intelligent and efficient over one that works themselves to death every day though.

And... we need to take into account what a government worker considers "hard work".


FWIW, if he were bionic and worked 24 hours a day... and still didn't produce the right results he'd still be a failure. Working "hard" or a lot of hours is no guarantee of success. I know lots of people who put in lots of hours... and just aren't very good at the job. In fact, it is often a tell when someone has to work a lot more hours than others to get "results".
 
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#370
#370
VFL-82-JP said:
Harbaugh had two quality wins in 2016: Wisconsin and Penn State.
Butch had four quality wins in 2016: Va Tech, Florida, Georgia, and Nebraska.

Harbaugh had one quality win in 2015: Northwestern (plus we'll give him 0.5 more for a bowl win against a Florida squad whose wheels were coming completely off at the end of the year).
Butch had two quality wins in 2015: Georgia, and Northwestern.

If you want to compare schedule difficulties, that's how to do it.

p.s. They both had unexpected losses to lesser teams, we know that. So this looks at their quality wins instead.
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Colorado?

You're also lumping all those wins together when they're not equal. Wisconsin and Penn State were the best wins of the bunch easily.
 
#371
#371
sjt18 said:
Ummm... proof? There are a lot of hard working coaches. Give me a coach that is intelligent and efficient over one that works themselves to death every day though.
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effort does go along way with me. but not at the expense of the results...at some point....you're either beating your head against the wall, or you're getting things done.

hell spurrier turned a healthy golf hobby in to 6 SEC titles and a natty. he wasn't sleeping in the office....:eek:lol:
 
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#372
#372
landscapingvol said:
No one has consistently beaten Saban on a regular basis and the only one that has had any success against him whatsoever left the conference. You can't judge another coach's ability simply because he hasn't been able to beat arguably the greatest coach of all time. After all, that is the measuring stick for CBJ. You can't say he hasn't been able to beat UGA, SC, or UF. And if that is the measuring stick for CBJ then it has to be the measuring stick when comparing other coaches. The fact that UT pretty much starts the season with an SEC loss is a major determinant in winning the East. Essentially UT has to go undefeated in the rest of their SEC play to any shot at winning the East. UF, UGA, and SC have the luxury of losing one of those games and still win the East; UT doesn't.
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No one is judging Jones by Saban. It would be foolish to try and that goes for everyone else currently in the conference which lends to my point.

UF hasn't replaced Meyer or Spurrier for that matter with JM.
UGA has a recruiter that is an unproven HC going into his second year.
SC hired a guy that couldn't get it done at UF.
Then you have Mizzou, Vandy, and KY

What year since Jones has been here has Bama cost him the east?
 
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#373
#373
jakez4ut said:
effort does go along way with me. but not at the expense of the results...at some point....you're either beating your head against the wall, or you're getting things done.

hell spurrier turned a healthy golf hobby in to 6 SEC titles and a natty. he wasn't sleeping in the office....:eek:lol:
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Exactly. If Jones won at the clip Spurrier did he could take up painting 6 hours a day and sleeping 12 if he wanted to and it wouldn't matter.
 
#374
#374
BeecherVol said:
Which is why using Pop or K as examples of hypocrisy doesn't equate. There is a substantial difference between those 2 as coaches and Jones.
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Pop and K were praised for the WORDS they said, Butch was made fun of. Both have used coach speak in similar ways. My comment wasn't comparing how good of coaches they were lol
 
#375
#375
Smokey123 said:
Pop and K were praised for the WORDS they said, Butch was made fun of. Both have used coach speak in similar ways. My comment wasn't comparing how good of coaches they were lol
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That's the difference between speaking from a position of perceived intelligence, and from a position of of perceived ignorance.

Those coaches were offering up coach-speak while they were winning. Butch has offered up coach-speak as a hollow platitude when faced with questions regarding unmet expectations during his tenure as HC.
 
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