Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

[Burger]

1) Harbaugh over Butch anytime of the week
2) Harbaugh has been to a Superbowl
3) Harbaugh is one of the best X's and O's guys as Butch is one of the worst
4) Harbaugh is a better recruiter

 

[NashVol11]

I spent some time in Buffalo, about as close as I got.
Had a year in New Hampshire, the landscape reminded me very much of Tennessee. But the people or so... "blunt", it made me really miss the south.

I think the wife and I have decided to stay in Tennessee as long as we stay in the U.S.

We've considered some of the moderate climate locations though.
I seem to be reverse of most people, the older I get, the less I like the heat. Anything above 65 and I'm uncomfortable lol.

I'm sitting in a building that switched to AC while it's still 50 degrees outside, and it's showing me that I'm not like you, haha.

People here are more blunt/rude in that they'll tell you to gfy if they don't like you, but you know where you stand. In the South, they smile and say "Bless your heart" when they hate you. I haven't decided which I prefer

 

[chargervol]

I'm sitting in a building that switched to AC while it's still 50 degrees outside, and it's showing me that I'm not like you, haha.

People here are more blunt/rude in that they'll tell you to gfy if they don't like you, but you know where you stand. In the South, they smile and say "Bless your heart" when they hate you. I haven't decided which I prefer

AC at 50? We may not be that far apart
I honestly don't switch until it hits 70. But those 80 and 90 degree days, I'm just miserable now.

I may eventually get used to "blunt" but you know how it is in the south. If someone is being blunt, they're telling you they want to fight lol. I do respect the honesty though. I just can't get over that they are making a challenge.

Even in New Hampshire, I kept thinking "if you said that to someone where I came from, fists, they are flying".
But honestly, I know you adapt to it over time.

 

[Burger]

I'm sitting in a building that switched to AC while it's still 50 degrees outside, and it's showing me that I'm not like you, haha.

People here are more blunt/rude in that they'll tell you to gfy if they don't like you, but you know where you stand. In the South, they smile and say "Bless your heart" when they hate you. I haven't decided which I prefer

I love the bluntness of the North.

 

[vol_in_ar]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...ach-rankings-power-five-coaches-ranked-65-26/

52 Volunteers

Butch Jones (33 2016 ranking): A Champion of Life, but not a champion of our rankings. Still, in my opinion, this is a pretty steep drop considering all the injuries Tennessee dealt with last year. Raised expectations will do that, though.


I'm not the biggest Butch cheerleader but it's crazy that he's behind a guy such as Ed Orgeron.

Let me know if you think this ranking is too high, too low, or just right. Without seeing the Top 25, I'd have Butch in the 25-35 range for Power 5 coaches.

he's not that great, he loses to Vandy

 

[IPleadInsanity]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...ach-rankings-power-five-coaches-ranked-65-26/

52 Volunteers

Butch Jones (33 2016 ranking): A Champion of Life, but not a champion of our rankings. Still, in my opinion, this is a pretty steep drop considering all the injuries Tennessee dealt with last year. Raised expectations will do that, though.


I'm not the biggest Butch cheerleader but it's crazy that he's behind a guy such as Ed Orgeron.

Let me know if you think this ranking is too high, too low, or just right. Without seeing the Top 25, I'd have Butch in the 25-35 range for Power 5 coaches.

Talking the talk...he is top 5. Walking the walk.....around 60?

 

[TVOL71]

Bielema has been to 3 Rose Bowls. Butch's peak has been the Outback

Clearly the Big 10 is a much easier conference overall, usually only 2 or 3 really good teams. Bielema performance since getting to Ark. clearly shows that difference. And as far as the SC loss goes, I remember reading that Dobbs was up into the early morning hours every night working on an engineering project that was coming due the week leading up to the SC game, and that was easily his worst performance of the season. Muschump basically got lucky in that one. You may somewhat able to blame the Vandy game on Jones (although the injuries are also significant), but can't blame him for Dobbs performance against SC.

 

[99gator]

i love y'all, but sometimes this board gets stuck on stupid.

There is no comparison between Butch and Harbaugh.

None.

10-3 in year 1 due in part to a botched punt snap debacle against Michigan State.

10-3 in year 2. A 1 point loss on the road, a 2ot loss on the road, and a 1 point loss to FSU in Miami (essentially on the road).

And it's amazing how we like to change our argument when it suits our purpose. Florida, Georgia and Nebraska suck. Va Tech is overrated being in the weak division of the ACC. This kind of thing has been stated repeatedly. But, when it's time to count up quality wins for Butch Jones, all of a sudden those teams are pretty good.

 

[pharmDvol11]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...ach-rankings-power-five-coaches-ranked-65-26/

52 Volunteers

Butch Jones (33 2016 ranking): A Champion of Life, but not a champion of our rankings. Still, in my opinion, this is a pretty steep drop considering all the injuries Tennessee dealt with last year. Raised expectations will do that, though.


I'm not the biggest Butch cheerleader but it's crazy that he's behind a guy such as Ed Orgeron.

Let me know if you think this ranking is too high, too low, or just right. Without seeing the Top 25, I'd have Butch in the 25-35 range for Power 5 coaches.

He's not outside the Top 25 and whoever wrote this article either doesn't understand today's college football or just wants ppl to talk about his article. Since online sportswriters are a dime a dozen I'll go with the latter.

 

[Burger]

He's not outside the Top 25 and whoever wrote this article either doesn't understand today's college football or just wants ppl to talk about his article. Since online sportswriters are a dime a dozen I'll go with the latter.

I actually think he's in the bottom third because of his bad player development, gameday blunders, and bad X's and O's. He easily compares to early 2000's Fulmer.

 

[Catbone]

It's debatable. Butch is not a very good game day coach but I don't think he is quite that low

 

[pharmDvol11]

I actually think he's in the bottom third because of his bad player development, gameday blunders, and bad X's and O's. He easily compares to early 2000's Fulmer.

Bottom third of all coaches?

I can agree he didn't meet our expectations this past season. He's made some game day blunders that have driven me crazy. And of course ppl take a few cheesy quotes blow it out of proportion. But regardless I still think he's a top 25 coach bc of 2 very simple but very concrete reasons: since he took over 1) the team's W/L record has improved every year and 2) the program has come such a long way. I just don't think you can put him outside the top 25 or on the hot seat without completely overlooking where the program was at when he took over. There can't be 25 coaches unquestionably better than him for that alone. It's impossible. I'm not pumping sunshine either. I think we'll find out this year if Butch and staff can coach in the SEC. He's basically starting over but he's starting with a better pool of talent than he did when he first started out. If he can't muster an 8-9 win season then he may not deserve to be here much longer.

 

[Burger]

Bottom third of all coaches?

I can agree he didn't meet our expectations this past season. He's made some game day blunders that have driven me crazy. And of course ppl take a few cheesy quotes blow it out of proportion. But regardless I still think he's a top 25 coach bc of 2 very simple but very concrete reasons: since he took over 1) the team's W/L record has improved every year and 2) the program has come such a long way. I just don't think you can put him outside the top 25 or on the hot seat without completely overlooking where the program was at when he took over. There can't be 25 coaches unquestionably better than him for that alone. It's impossible. I'm not pumping sunshine either. I think we'll find out this year if Butch and staff can coach in the SEC. He's basically starting over but he's starting with a better pool of talent than he did when he first started out. If he can't muster an 8-9 win season then he may not deserve to be here much longer.

The problem is that he's essentially hit a road block. Considering last year's talent level, he substantially underperformed.

 

[volgrad500]

Reading VN, one thing becomes crystal clear- a lot of people on here WAY WAY WAY overestimate how good the SEC East is.

 

[dan4vols]

Which begs the question, in the here and now as opposed to say 1985, 1995, or even 2005 as the seasons go by is it harder to be considered a successful coach with each passing season? I used to think just winning games was a cure all...period. Any criticism the media or fans can give you is just noise as long as your winning. Not so fast. Last season Butch and the Vols were 5-0 and were treated by the the fans and media as if they were 2-3/3-2. These days its not just enough to win and its all good its how you win, who you beat, where in the schedule does it fall. Huge money is on the line. Is likeability part of it? are you as a coach marketable, intresting, is that part of the critics mindset?

 

[Volsfaninva917]

i love y'all, but sometimes this board gets stuck on stupid.

There is no comparison between Butch and Harbaugh.

None.

10-3 in year 1 due in part to a botched punt snap debacle against Michigan State.

10-3 in year 2. A 1 point loss on the road, a 2ot loss on the road, and a 1 point loss to FSU in Miami (essentially on the road).

And it's amazing how we like to change our argument when it suits our purpose. Florida, Georgia and Nebraska suck. Va Tech is overrated being in the weak division of the ACC. This kind of thing has been stated repeatedly. But, when it's time to count up quality wins for Butch Jones, all of a sudden those teams are pretty good.

Wins over VT, UF and UGA last year were games Tennessee should have won handly. Tennessee won, I don't consider those program changing wins or signature wins. Truth is Tennessee was a big fish in a small pond last year speaking from a division prospective and CBJ still found a way to drown. Again hes a career 8 win football coach and hes wayyyyyyy over his head in the SEC.

 

[volfan102455]

Wins over VT, UF and UGA last year were games Tennessee should have won handly. Tennessee won, I don't consider those program changing wins or signature wins. Truth is Tennessee was a big fish in a small pond last year speaking from a division prospective and CBJ still found a way to drown. Again hes a career 8 win football coach and hes wayyyyyyy over his head in the SEC.

So it doesn't fit the agenda so excuse it away. Those were great wins for the program.

And Clemson should have easily beat Pittsburgh but they lost. And Louisville should have easily beat Kentucky, but they lost. And Michigan should have easily beat Iowa but they lost. And OSU should have been able to beat Penn State who was stomped by Michigan but they lost. And LSU should have beaten Florida, but they lost.

Yes Tennessee should have won those games and they did.

I guess Alabama because they are suppose to win every game lucks out and should fire Saban - he hasn't ever had a signature win given your criteria.

 

[99gator]

So it doesn't fit the agenda so excuse it away. Those were great wins for the program.

And Clemson should have easily beat Pittsburgh but they lost. And Louisville should have easily beat Kentucky, but they lost. And Michigan should have easily beat Iowa but they lost. And OSU should have been able to beat Penn State who was stomped by Michigan but they lost. And LSU should have beaten Florida, but they lost.

Yes Tennessee should have won those games and they did.

I guess Alabama because they are suppose to win every game lucks out and should fire Saban - he hasn't ever had a signature win given your criteria.

It was stated at the end of last season, so people tend to forget.

Tell me, seriously, which game Tennessee participated in where they played good football from the start of the game until they end of the game? How many times did they do that?

The thing is with all these comparisons to Harbaugh or whatever....Tennessee played poorly much of last season including games they won.

Take Florida as an example so this isn't about Tennessee. No one thinks Florida was very good. Why? Because even when they won, they didn't look good. So, yeah, people might respect them from a standpoint of acknowledging there is talent there and you could get beat, etc. But, you didn't watch them and think..."that's what a good football team looks like".

Well, the same was true for Tennessee. And people excused it because of injuries or they won games they haven't won recently, etc. But for great stretches of time, they played poorly in the vast majority of their games last year. And contrary to popular opinion, the schedule wasn't brutal. The second best team on the schedule may have been Viriginia Tech.

Upsets happen. But, Tennessee didn't get beat by South Carolina because "on any given Saturday" anything can happen. They got beat because they consistently played with fire and eventually got burned. There's a difference.

But, beyond all of that fascinating stuff, are you really going to tell me that you'd rather have Butch on the sideline than Harbaugh? Or that you don't see any difference?

 

[Behr]

i love y'all, but sometimes this board gets stuck on stupid.

There is no comparison between Butch and Harbaugh.

None.

10-3 in year 1 due in part to a botched punt snap debacle against Michigan State.

10-3 in year 2. A 1 point loss on the road, a 2ot loss on the road, and a 1 point loss to FSU in Miami (essentially on the road).

And it's amazing how we like to change our argument when it suits our purpose. Florida, Georgia and Nebraska suck. Va Tech is overrated being in the weak division of the ACC. This kind of thing has been stated repeatedly. But, when it's time to count up quality wins for Butch Jones, all of a sudden those teams are pretty good.

What I saw last night was "Butch wasn't as bad as his ranking and Harbaugh wasn't as good as his." Then it did what it normally does. I honestly didn't get the "feel" of an actual comparison.

Jmo.

 

[njvols]

It was stated at the end of last season, so people tend to forget.

Tell me, seriously, which game Tennessee participated in where they played good football from the start of the game until they end of the game? How many times did they do that?

The thing is with all these comparisons to Harbaugh or whatever....Tennessee played poorly much of last season including games they won.

Take Florida as an example so this isn't about Tennessee. No one thinks Florida was very good. Why? Because even when they won, they didn't look good. So, yeah, people might respect them from a standpoint of acknowledging there is talent there and you could get beat, etc. But, you didn't watch them and think..."that's what a good football team looks like".

Well, the same was true for Tennessee. And people excused it because of injuries or they won games they haven't won recently, etc. But for great stretches of time, they played poorly in the vast majority of their games last year. And contrary to popular opinion, the schedule wasn't brutal. The second best team on the schedule may have been Viriginia Tech.

Upsets happen. But, Tennessee didn't get beat by South Carolina because "on any given Saturday" anything can happen. They got beat because they consistently played with fire and eventually got burned. There's a difference.

But, beyond all of that fascinating stuff, are you really going to tell me that you'd rather have Butch on the sideline than Harbaugh? Or that you don't see any difference?

First, most sane folks for any program would take harbaugh. However, over last the last 3 seasons in what everyone agrees is toughest conference in country, even with the dumb losses, Butch is tied for third with FL for most wins behind Bama and Ga. We absolutely expect more, but Butch not the trainwreck everyone's making him out to be either. Yes, the first two years do count, but everyone seems to forget the state of program from Dooley,

Not giving him a pass, but consistency of program and wins builds momentum. Look at Dabo...they were calling for him to be fired a few years ago, and he kept clipping along, and next thing you know they've got it figured out. My hope is that one of these QBs can be the Lightning rod for a good run over next few years. Go Vols!

 

[jakez4ut]

It was stated at the end of last season, so people tend to forget.

Tell me, seriously, which game Tennessee participated in where they played good football from the start of the game until they end of the game? How many times did they do that?

The thing is with all these comparisons to Harbaugh or whatever....Tennessee played poorly much of last season including games they won.

Take Florida as an example so this isn't about Tennessee. No one thinks Florida was very good. Why? Because even when they won, they didn't look good. So, yeah, people might respect them from a standpoint of acknowledging there is talent there and you could get beat, etc. But, you didn't watch them and think..."that's what a good football team looks like".

Well, the same was true for Tennessee. And people excused it because of injuries or they won games they haven't won recently, etc. But for great stretches of time, they played poorly in the vast majority of their games last year. And contrary to popular opinion, the schedule wasn't brutal. The second best team on the schedule may have been Viriginia Tech.

Upsets happen. But, Tennessee didn't get beat by South Carolina because "on any given Saturday" anything can happen. They got beat because they consistently played with fire and eventually got burned. There's a difference.

But, beyond all of that fascinating stuff, are you really going to tell me that you'd rather have Butch on the sideline than Harbaugh? Or that you don't see any difference?

:thumbsup:

 

[njvols]

It was stated at the end of last season, so people tend to forget.

Tell me, seriously, which game Tennessee participated in where they played good football from the start of the game until they end of the game? How many times did they do that?

The thing is with all these comparisons to Harbaugh or whatever....Tennessee played poorly much of last season including games they won.

Take Florida as an example so this isn't about Tennessee. No one thinks Florida was very good. Why? Because even when they won, they didn't look good. So, yeah, people might respect them from a standpoint of acknowledging there is talent there and you could get beat, etc. But, you didn't watch them and think..."that's what a good football team looks like".

Well, the same was true for Tennessee. And people excused it because of injuries or they won games they haven't won recently, etc. But for great stretches of time, they played poorly in the vast majority of their games last year. And contrary to popular opinion, the schedule wasn't brutal. The second best team on the schedule may have been Viriginia Tech.

Upsets happen. But, Tennessee didn't get beat by South Carolina because "on any given Saturday" anything can happen. They got beat because they consistently played with fire and eventually got burned. There's a difference.

But, beyond all of that fascinating stuff, are you really going to tell me that you'd rather have Butch on the sideline than Harbaugh? Or that you don't see any difference?

Incorrect. Granted, some of the teams not at high water mark, but any time you play UF, UGA, TaM, Bama, without cup cakes or an off week in between, it's going to take a toll...and it did. I believe all were at one time or another during the season ranked in top 10-15

Don't know any other team that had this sort of scheduling. Though this year schedule, as a whole, no less challenging, I think we'll get some benefit from spacing b/t big games. Whether we take advantage or not is another story...

 

[1982Alum]

Still below .500 in the SEC after all these years. Yeah, Butch is a middle of the pack coach and somewhere in the 50's is about right.

Hasn't shown me anything yet. 2-2 against Vandy? Come on................there always is an excuse somewhere with him.

 

[CountVolcula]

Butch should be #1 on the list

Cause he bleeds orange tears

 

[mitzustu]

I actually think Butch will climb the list over the next few years. If he can keep solid assistants, recruit well, and be a leader of men he will be successful. Like it or not the guy has been learning on the job, and if you look at his current staff... I'd have to argue he's also making progress. Would love Dabo 2.0, he may not get there, but his ceiling is much higher than 52.