Are Dobbs' Mechanical Issues Fixable? - Article

[k-town_king]

Doesn't matter. My evaluation of Dobbs is completely fair. Worley has no bearing at all on that.

If you cant even admit that Dobbs was a better passer than Worley when it isn't even close you aren't fairly evaluating him. If you think Worley is better you just are either horrible at analysis or have something against Dobbs. Its one of the two. There is no argument that can be made to say Worley is a better passer or even close to as good.

 

[Burger]

Well at least people know to ignore anything you two say about qbs now.

As a passer both are almost the same. Both have decent arms, both weren't good at reading defenses, both had accuracy issues.

 

[GAVol]

As a passer both are almost the same. Both have decent arms, both weren't good at reading defenses, both had accuracy issues.

Worley really shouldn't have been starting in the SEC. And Dobbs' arm is a little better than decent.

 

[Burger]

Worley really shouldn't have been starting in the SEC. And Dobbs' arm is a little better than decent.

We can agree on the first. Dobbs arm is not Aaron Rodgers, but it's not Chad Pennington either.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Do what? Josh played well enough through the entire season to win all those things? You're either severely misinformed or you're being dishonest.

Josh had great moments (Hail Mary vs UGA, 2nd half vs UF, parts of TAM gm) throughout the season and he crushed it the last 5 games vs TnTech, Kentucky, Missouri, Vandy and Nebraska......he wasn't playing at the elite level it takes to win those things until late in the season, when we were beyond the meat of the schedule and our season's primary goal was gone...right after Dobbs went 12-26 with 3 turnovers vs SCar.

As I've mentioned to you before, through the first 8 games.....2/3 of the season.....Dobbs was completing 57% of his passes with 15 tds and 11 interceptions.....that ain't good enough to win ANY of the awards/championships you listed.

Well well well. Whenever someone needs a negative take on Dobbs you come calling.

I love how you always focus on Dobbs numbers during the stretch of the year we faced our toughest competition and had our most serious injuries. Yes against Alabama with all of his lineman injures he struggled. But so would any QB in the same situation.

No QB could do what Dobbs did last year with what he had to deal with from the injuries on the team to the poor coaching to his academic workload. Josh Dobbs played well enough last year to do everything I said. His offensive line, receivers, defense, and coaches failed him. Now that he's on the good team like the Steelers we will see his true talents blossom.

What we saw in 2016 was Josh Dobbs dragging and willing a team that was decimated by injuries to 9-4. Without Dobbs we probably go 3-10.

 

[Burger]

Well well well. Whenever someone needs a negative take on Dobbs you come calling.

I love how you always focus on Dobbs numbers during the stretch of the year we faced our toughest competition and had our most serious injuries. Yes against Alabama with all of his lineman injures he struggled. But so would any QB in the same situation.

No QB could do what Dobbs did last year with what he had to deal with from the injuries on the team to the poor coaching to his academic workload. Josh Dobbs played well enough last year to do everything I said. His offensive line, receivers, defense, and coaches failed him. Now that he's on the good team like the Steelers we will see his true talents blossom.

What we saw in 2016 was Josh Dobbs dragging and willing a team that was decimated by injuries to 9-4. Without Dobbs we probably go 3-10.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but your last sentence is dumb because no three win team plays 13 games.

Dobbs did what he did despite barely being able to read a defense or see a checkdown. The NFL will Neutralize the advantage he has with his legs. I have never seen Dobbs beat a team with his arm. He was forced to win with his arm against Alabama and South Carolina and completely failed.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but your last sentence is dumb because no three win team plays 13 games.

Dobbs did what he did despite barely being able to read a defense or see a checkdown. The NFL will Neutralize the advantage he has with his legs. I have never seen Dobbs beat a team with his arm. He was forced to win with his arm against Alabama and South Carolina and completely failed.

You didn't watch the Florida game last year?

You know that team that had it's entire secondary drafted in the first 2 rounds of the NFL draft and is known as DBU that gave up over 300 passing yards and 5 TDs to Dobbs.

Did that epic passing performance just slip your mind?

 

[Burger]

You didn't watch the Florida game last year?

You know that team that had it's entire secondary drafted in the first 2 rounds of the NFL draft and is known as DBU that gave up over 300 passing yards and 5 TDs to Dobbs.

Did that epic passing performance just slip your mind?

Florida also let him run loose. With Dobbs it's if you stop the legs, you stop the QB. When you don't stop him on the ground, then his passing game is good. Also, the defense did only give up 7 points in the second half.

It goes back to Muschamp being able to stop his legs. We were still more talented than SC even with all of the injuries. When SC was able to stop Dobbs on the ground, Dobbs proceeded to play his worst game.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Florida also let him run loose. With Dobbs it's if you stop the legs, you stop the QB. When you don't stop him on the ground, then his passing game is good. Also, the defense did only give up 7 points in the second half.

Wait so now you're making it into a bad thing that he can run for close to 100 yards while also passing for more than 300 yards in the same game?

I mean this is a crazy argument. So you want Dobbs to not run at all? The fact he can beat teams both running and passing is a huge positive not a negative.

 

[Burger]

Wait so now you're making it into a bad thing that he can run for close to 100 yards while also passing for more than 300 yards in the same game?

I mean this is a crazy argument. So you want Dobbs to not run at all? The fact he can beat teams both running and passing is a huge positive not a negative.

I'm saying if you stop Dobbs on the ground, he won't beat you without the ground game. Meaning if he has to rely completely on his arm to win, it most likely wouldn't happen.

It's why I always compared him to Joe Webb.

 

[KBVol]

If you cant even admit that Dobbs was a better passer than Worley when it isn't even close you aren't fairly evaluating him. If you think Worley is better you just are either horrible at analysis or have something against Dobbs. Its one of the two. There is no argument that can be made to say Worley is a better passer or even close to as good.

Hold on now. Was Dobbs a much better overall qb? Absolutely, not close. Worley won't much be remembered while Dobbs is a top 5-6 UT QB all-time Imo and will always be remembered fondly due to both his outstanding play (much if not most of it with his legs) and for who he is as a fine young man.

But comparing their passing abilities and saying "it's not even close" in Dobbs' favor isn't accurate .... at all

Dobbs never played behind a good offensive line, no doubt.....but Worley played behind arguably the worst OL in school history...it was bloody awful.

Additionally, Dobbs had a ton more offensive talent around him than Worley ever did, not even close. Then throw in Dobbs' elite running ability.....hell, Worley refused to even consider running....and there's no doubt that Dobbs' great ability to run gave him more time, more honest defenses when he set up to throw.

Go back and watch a handful of games Worley played in, particularly the 2014 game at Georgia...Worley was outstanding that day, certainly as good vs UGA that day as Dobbs ever was, and he wasn't throwing to Malone and Jennings and AK.

Even go back and compare their senior seasons.....

Worley played in 7 games before being injured and done for the year.....62.3%/1579 yards/12 tds/8 ints

By comparison, Dobbs thru 7 games last season....
58.5%/1525 yards/14 tds/9 ints


And again, remember that Dobbs had a lot more talent, more playmakers all around him than Worley did.

"Not close to as good" a passer as Dobbs? If you're drawing that conclusion, you have selective memory and aren't looking at the evidence.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Well at least people know to ignore anything you two say about qbs now.

Pfft, you should have known that a while ago. You were too busy kissing someone's booboos though to realize that you come off just as bad.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Well at least people know to ignore anything you two say about qbs now.

On second thought, Worley's issues started when he refused to pull the ball and run. He was consistently more accurate than Dobbs. The reason we dis'd him was taking sacks. He spent TOO long going through reads and got hammered. Had he run the ball enough to freeze the line backers for one step, he would have done much better. All in all he was a pretty tough guy that got rocked a lot. Worley with a slightly better line and pulling the ball out and running it occasionally would have made him much better.

That's my opinion, you are free to have yours.

 

[Burger]

On second thought, Worley's issues started when he refused to pull the ball and run. He was consistently more accurate than Dobbs. The reason we dis'd him was taking sacks. He spent TOO long going through reads and got hammered. Had he run the ball enough to freeze the line backers for one step, he would have done much better. All in all he was a pretty tough guy that got rocked a lot. Worley with a slightly better line and pulling the ball out and running it occasionally would have made him much better.

That's my opinion, you are free to have yours.

Nailed it.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

It goes back to Muschamp being able to stop his legs. We were still more talented than SC even with all of the injuries. When SC was able to stop Dobbs on the ground, Dobbs proceeded to play his worst game.

No. He just had a bad game against South Carolina. Muschamp didn't devise some genius strategy. Dobbs just had a tough exam that week that took up most of his time.

Bad games happen.

 

[82_VOL_83]

How quickly Vols fans forget...Did you see the South Carolina game? How 'bout the end of the A&M game?

He was horribly inaccurate. He regularly threw wobbly passes. I don't see the Steelers being able to fix that but since I'm a Bengal fan, I'm glad.

His value to the Vols were his legs. They bailed us out time and time again.

Pretty straight forward right there.

What's going to happen to him when he can't run away anymore....when there are stud LB's, DE's, and CB's on both ends? Over and under on how many good licks he takes before he gets rattled.........about 4, in one game.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Hold on now. Was Dobbs a much better overall qb? Absolutely, not close. Worley won't much be remembered while Dobbs is a top 5-6 UT QB all-time Imo and will always be remembered fondly due to both his outstanding play (much if not most of it with his legs) and for who he is as a fine young man.

But comparing their passing abilities and saying "it's not even close" in Dobbs' favor isn't accurate .... at all

Dobbs never played behind a good offensive line, no doubt.....but Worley played behind arguably the worst OL in school history...it was bloody awful.

Additionally, Dobbs had a ton more offensive talent around him than Worley ever did, not even close. Then throw in Dobbs' elite running ability.....hell, Worley refused to even consider running....and there's no doubt that Dobbs' great ability to run gave him more time, more honest defenses when he set up to throw.

Go back and watch a handful of games Worley played in, particularly the 2014 game at Georgia...Worley was outstanding that day, certainly as good vs UGA that day as Dobbs ever was, and he wasn't throwing to Malone and Jennings and AK.

Even go back and compare their senior seasons.....

Worley played in 7 games before being injured and done for the year.....62.3%/1579 yards/12 tds/8 ints

By comparison, Dobbs thru 7 games last season....
58.5%/1525 yards/14 tds/9 ints


And again, remember that Dobbs had a lot more talent, more playmakers all around him than Worley did.

"Not close to as good" a passer as Dobbs? If you're drawing that conclusion, you have selective memory and aren't looking at the evidence.

Now I've seen it all.

You're seriously going to argue that Worley (a guy who couldn't even get a deal as undrafted free agent) is a better passer than Dobbs?

And once again I love your SELECTIVE use of stats. If we wanna talk numbers why not just compare their career passing numbers?

Dobbs: 61.5% completion percentage, 7.1 yards per pass attempt, 53 passing TDs to 29 INTs, 133.2 QB rating

Worley: 59.0% completion percentage, 6.4 yards per pass attempt, 23 TDs to 21 INTs, 118.6 QB rating

There is literally no comparison between Dobbs and Worley as passers. By every passing metric Dobbs is VASTLY superior.

And KBVol, I thought you were all about numbers. Why now when Dobbs is better than Worley by EVERY single passing metric are you ignoring what the data is saying and just cherry picking numbers?

 

[Burger]

No. He just had a bad game against South Carolina. Muschamp didn't devise some genius strategy. Dobbs just had a tough exam that week that took up most of his time.

Bad games happen.

Appy St. in week 1?

 

[Burger]

Now I've seen it all.

You're seriously going to argue that Worley (a guy who couldn't even get a deal as undrafted free agent) is a better passer than Dobbs?

And once again I love your SELECTIVE use of stats. If we wanna talk numbers why not just compare their career passing numbers?

Dobbs: 61.5% completion percentage, 7.1 yards per pass attempt, 53 passing TDs to 29 INTs, 133.2 QB rating

Worley: 59.0% completion percentage, 6.4 yards per pass attempt, 23 TDs to 21 INTs, 118.6 QB rating

There is literally no comparison between Dobbs and Worley as passers. By every passing metric Dobbs is VASTLY superior.

And KBVol, I thought you were all about numbers. Why now when Dobbs is better than Worley by EVERY single passing metric are you ignoring what the data is saying and just cherry picking numbers?

That's not vastly superior considering Dobbs had way better talent around him.

 

[KBVol]

Well well well. Whenever someone needs a negative take on Dobbs you come calling.

I love how you always focus on Dobbs numbers during the stretch of the year we faced our toughest competition and had our most serious injuries. Yes against Alabama with all of his lineman injures he struggled. But so would any QB in the same situation.

No QB could do what Dobbs did last year with what he had to deal with from the injuries on the team to the poor coaching to his academic workload. Josh Dobbs played well enough last year to do everything I said. His offensive line, receivers, defense, and coaches failed him. Now that he's on the good team like the Steelers we will see his true talents blossom.

What we saw in 2016 was Josh Dobbs dragging and willing a team that was decimated by injuries to 9-4. Without Dobbs we probably go 3-10.

It's called balance Chief. Somebody has to balance out your delusions and fairy takes with facts. I'm happy to do it....you're welcome.

Josh had a very , very good season last year, yet context is important when fairly evaluating it.

If he had put up similar numbers early in the season versus our biggest rivals like he did late in the season versus our weakest opponents, you might have a case. Unfortunately he didn't, and you don't.

Josh was never in the Heisman talk last season and for good reason. You have to put up huge numbers consistently and you have to step up and have huge performances vs your most important opponents.....Josh had the winning td pass vs Georgia and the huge second half vs Florida.....both were great and he gets full credit for it.

But Josh also had the game ending int vs TAM, 92 yards passing vs Bama in a 39 point home loss and a 12-26 passing day and 3 turnovers vs SCar with the season on the line....and don't forget 3 second half points vs Vandy.

On balance much more good than bad and some great for Dobbs, especially the last 5 games of the season......just not nearly enough to be considered for the prestigious national awards. That's just the truth no matter how you try and spin it.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Appy St. in week 1?

That was on bad coaching. The game plan was to try and hide the entire playbook and it nearly cost us. Plus the o-line got whipped on nearly every play.

Dobbs had one bad decision on the INT but otherwise he was solid.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

That's not vastly superior considering Dobbs had way better talent around him.

Dobbs had better RBs but that's about it. O-line was as bad during Dobbs entire tenure as it was in 2014. Worley actually had better o-lines before that than Josh ever did. And don't talk to me about WRs and star ratings because our guys were dropping balls right and left with Dobbs throwing perfect passes.

Josh Dobbs carried that offense the last 2 years. It wasn't improved talent that made the offensive prolific. It was Dobbs raising their level. Without Dobbs the o-line and offense would look as pathetic as it did in 2014 before he took over.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

It's called balance Chief. Somebody has to balance out your delusions and fairy takes with facts. I'm happy to do it....you're welcome.

Josh had a very , very good season last year, yet context is important when fairly evaluating it.

If he had put up similar numbers early in the season versus our biggest rivals like he did late in the season versus our weakest opponents, you might have a case. Unfortunately he didn't, and you don't.

Josh was never in the Heisman talk last season and for good reason. You have to put up huge numbers consistently and you have to step up and have huge performances vs your most important opponents.....Josh had the winning td pass vs Georgia and the huge second half vs Florida.....both were great and he gets full credit for it.

But Josh also had the game ending int vs TAM, 92 yards passing vs Bama in a 39 point home loss and a 12-26 passing day and 3 turnovers vs SCar with the season on the line....and don't forget 3 second half points vs Vandy.

On balance much more good than bad and some great for Dobbs, especially the last 5 games of the season......just not nearly enough to be considered for the prestigious national awards. That's just the truth no matter how you try and spin it.

Who the hell does that? Most players put up their biggest stats against the weak part of the schedule. Hell the heisman trophy winner last year basically won the heisman because of the monster stats he put up against cupcakes to start the year.

If Dobbs second half where he destroyed the cupcakes on our schedule was in the first half of the season like Lamar Jackson he would have also gotten heisman hype.

But beyond that Dobbs had to deal with a lousy coach who was afraid to let him loose, a poor offensive line that couldn't give him any time in the pocket, and unreliable receivers that dropped perfectly thrown passes constantly. Give Josh a coach who believes in his players and lets them loose like Dabo, a solid offensive line that will give him time in the pocket to go through his reads, and playmakers like Mike Williams and he would have also been in New York for the heisman trophy presentation.

Just watch how dominant Josh looks when he finally gets proper coaching, an offensive line, and playmaking WRs in Pittsburgh. The rest of you will finally see the player I've been seeing all along. A LEGEND.

 

[Burger]

That was on bad coaching. The game plan was to try and hide the entire playbook and it nearly cost us. Plus the o-line got whipped on nearly every play.

Dobbs had one bad decision on the INT but otherwise he was solid.

So how about Alabama, Florida in 2015, and others. He's had plenty of bad games when he can't run the ball.

 

[Burger]

Who the hell does that? Most players put up their biggest stats against the weak part of the schedule. Hell the heisman trophy winner last year basically won the heisman because of the monster stats he put up against cupcakes to start the year.

If Dobbs second half where he destroyed the cupcakes on our schedule was in the first half of the season like Lamar Jackson he would have also gotten heisman hype.

But beyond that Dobbs had to deal with a lousy coach who was afraid to let him loose, a poor offensive line that couldn't give him any time in the pocket, and unreliable receivers that dropped perfectly thrown passes constantly. Give Josh a coach who believes in his players and lets them loose like Dabo, a solid offensive line that will give him time in the pocket to go through his reads, and playmakers like Mike Williams and he would have also been in New York for the heisman trophy presentation.

Just watch how dominant Josh looks when he finally gets proper coaching, an offensive line, and playmaking WRs in Pittsburgh. The rest of you will finally see the player I've been seeing all along. A LEGEND.

I see a guy who makes only one read than dashes, misses wide open receivers, and whom was poorly coached. Dobbs flopped in a massive way against a cupcake in SC and Appy St.