Obama Legacy

#677
#677
TennFan said:
:bad:
What legacy? Ruining this country and trying to take total control of it. Name 5 good things he did. He said the following: "America is the largest Muslim country in the world." "If you like your helathcare program you can keep it." "The terrorist attacks in San Bernardino, Fort Hood, and Orlando were committed by American citizens."
If that last statement is true, then we have met the enemy and they are us.:ermm::eek:hmy:
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Name one damn good thing the repubs have done. They're so power hungry they can't agree how to govern. :crazy:
 
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#678
#678
k-town_king said:
I can always tell the people who listen to talk radio and FOX but never educate themselves on issues. You are repeating a bunch of talking points that you have no clue about.

Obamacare gave many uncovered people health insurance. There is a reason they couldn't find anything better. Many lives have been saved and improved due to it.

No respect for law enforcement or military? People respect them. People don't respect corrupt and abusive cops and they shouldn't .

How did he or the country "not respect the constitution"? Conservatives say that with no facts to back them.

What queen? We don't have a queen. Also I don't think you want to depend on what Duterte has said. He is a human rights abuser and all around insane idiot. We might as well as Kim Jong Un his opinion on our leaders.

When you modernize industries jobs are lost. Even the military. Unemployment went way down. Yall can lie about unreported blah blah blah all you want. The facts are the facts.

Our borders were more secure under Obama than any other POTUS. He also deported more illegals than any other POTUS. I must have missed all the terrorists attacks by people crossing our "unsecure" borders.

He did not say that. Read an actual paper or something. He said if you took just our Muslim citizens we would be ,"ONE of the largest Muslim countries", in the world. that is true with anywhere for up to 8 million Muslims in the US depending on who you ask.

Islam is not being taught in public schools. They don't teach religion. They do cover some religious figures of all faiths. That was true when I was in school in the 80s also.

You talk like someone who doesn't know how to think for himself and is very uninformed. Sadly we have too many Americans just like you. You need to do some reading and then get some real lifer experience around different types of people.
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Spin it however you want. He sucked donkey cods. That's not from any news source. That's just how it is.
 
#679
#679
k-town_king said:
I can always tell the people who listen to talk radio and FOX but never educate themselves on issues. You are repeating a bunch of talking points that you have no clue about.

Obamacare gave many uncovered people health insurance. There is a reason they couldn't find anything better. Many lives have been saved and improved due to it.

No respect for law enforcement or military? People respect them. People don't respect corrupt and abusive cops and they shouldn't .

How did he or the country "not respect the constitution"? Conservatives say that with no facts to back them.

What queen? We don't have a queen. Also I don't think you want to depend on what Duterte has said. He is a human rights abuser and all around insane idiot. We might as well as Kim Jong Un his opinion on our leaders.

When you modernize industries jobs are lost. Even the military. Unemployment went way down. Yall can lie about unreported blah blah blah all you want. The facts are the facts.

Our borders were more secure under Obama than any other POTUS. He also deported more illegals than any other POTUS. I must have missed all the terrorists attacks by people crossing our "unsecure" borders.

He did not say that. Read an actual paper or something. He said if you took just our Muslim citizens we would be ,"ONE of the largest Muslim countries", in the world. that is true with anywhere for up to 8 million Muslims in the US depending on who you ask.

Islam is not being taught in public schools. They don't teach religion. They do cover some religious figures of all faiths. That was true when I was in school in the 80s also.

You talk like someone who doesn't know how to think for himself and is very uninformed. Sadly we have too many Americans just like you. You need to do some reading and then get some real lifer experience around different types of people.
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I totally disagree with you on the school issue. You haven't heard much have you. It may not be in the news, which the media will NEVER say the truth of what's happening with everything. It's more than one state too.
Liberals would never agree with that issue. It was even happening here in Florida.
Why are there more illegals in California than any other state? Is Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona accepting as many. California is a sanctuary state.
Oh, by the way, Obama wanted to protecting 5 million illegals too. He also said illegals could vote.
He supported Islam.
I'm talking about the Queen of England in case you didn't know.
Obama didn't respect law enforcement or the military.
There are some people who don't respect either.
Why is there only 1 insurance company in most states for Obamacare now? It needs repealed/replaced. It was NEVER affordable!
Several companies sent jobs out of the country. You are uniformed. Look it up! Trump saved jobs from Carrier and other companies from leaving. Even Chevrolet has the Cruz made in Mexico. It shouldn't be! I'd be willing to bet the jobs that left weren't counted in the unemployment.
 
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#680
#680
TennFan said:
I totally disagree with you on the school issue. You haven't heard much have you. It may not be in the news, which the media will NEVER say the truth of what's happening with everything. It's more than one state too.
Liberals would never agree with that issue. It was even happening here in Florida.
Why are there more illegals in California than any other state? Is Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona accepting as many. California is a sanctuary state.
Oh, by the way, Obama wanted to protecting 5 million illegals too. He also said illegals could vote.
He supported Islam.
I'm talking about the Queen of England in case you didn't know.
Obama didn't respect law enforcement or the military.
There are some people who don't respect either.
Why is there only 1 insurance company in most states for Obamacare now? It needs repealed/replaced. It was NEVER affordable!
Several companies sent jobs out of the country. You are uniformed. Look it up! Trump saved jobs from Carrier and other companies from leaving. Even Chevrolet has the Cruz made in Mexico. It shouldn't be! I'd be willing to bet the jobs that left weren't counted in the unemployment.
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It's obvious you get your news from memes.

He has not disrespected police and the military. (I bet you'll now reply with a quick vid of Obama walking by a military member without showing respect. Don't because Trump disrespected his wife and members of the military on day 1 of his presidency. Forgetting to show proper respect one time out of every 100 or 1000 times isn't a big deal. Everyone forgets or gets distracted, so I don't give the vid you were going to show any credence whatsoever anyway.)

I have a child in school (finishing 8th grade). Thus far, she has been taught that Islam is a religion, just as she has been taught that other religions exist. Just very basic stuff. Certainly, hasn't come home touting the wisdom of Mohammed.

Why are there more illegals in California than any other state? You serious? It shares a border with Mexico and has the largest population of any state that does. Than means more job opportunities. Texas, BTW, has the same percentage of illegal aliens in its state. It just has less because it has a smaller population.

He never said illegals could vote. Only morons that watched a partial video believe that crap.

He supported Islam? How so? All religions are protected in this country. If you mean that he treated muslims with the same respect he showed other religions, then I agree. But I have a feeling that is not quite it.

Obamacare is a failure, but the question is why? This is a plan that was supported by the insurance companies initially. After it was passed, Republicans refused to work with dems to try and fix the plan.

As far as jobs... Unemployment consistently improved over the past 6 years under Obama. Trump has taken credit for saving a few jobs, but he clearly has no understanding of how it all works. Most jobs have been lost to automation not mexicans. Tariffs don't and have not ever worked. It is amazing that those that call themselves conservatives are so aligned with taxing goods and services.

As for not counting jobs that left in the unemployment figures... You've clearly been discussing the issues with bubba while sitting on the porch enjoying a Beech-Nut, but that is not how it works. If the people who were employed by a company that ran to Mexico are on unemployment and have not found work... they count as unemployed. If they have found work, they are not unemployed.
 
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#681
#681
ClearwaterVol said:
It's obvious you get your news from memes.

Obama never said illegals could vote.
He has not disrespected police and the military. (I bet you'll now reply with a quick vid of Obama walking by a military member without showing respect. Don't because Trump disrespected his wife and members of the military on day 1 of his presidency. Forgetting to show proper respect one time out of every 100 or 1000 times isn't a big deal. Everyone forgets or gets distracted, so I don't give the vid you were going to show any credence whatsoever anyway.)

I have a child in school (finishing 8th grade). Thus far, she has been taught that Islam is a religion, just as she has been taught that other religions exist. Just very basic stuff. Certainly, hasn't come home touting the wisdom of Mohammed.

Why are there more illegals in California than any other state? You serious? It shares a border with Mexico and has the largest population of any state that does. Than means more job opportunities. Texas, BTW, has the same percentage of illegal aliens in its state. It just has less because it has a smaller population.

He never said illegals could vote. Only morons that watched a partial video believe that crap.

He supported Islam? How so? All religions are protected in this country. If you mean that he treated muslims with the same respect he showed other religions, then I agree. But I have a feeling that is not quite it.

Obamacare is a failure, but the question is why? This is a plan that was supported by the insurance companies initially. After it was passed, Republicans refused to work with dems to try and fix the plan.

As far as jobs... Unemployment consistently improved over the past 6 years under Obama. Trump has taken credit for saving a few jobs, but he clearly has no understanding of how it all works. Most jobs have been lost to automation not mexicans. Tariffs don't and have not ever worked. It is amazing that those that call themselves conservatives are so aligned with taxing goods and services.

As for not counting jobs that left in the unemployment figures... You've clearly been discussing the issues with bubba while sitting on the porch enjoying a Beech-Nut, but that is not how it works. If the people who were employed by a company that ran to Mexico are on unemployment and have not found work... they count as unemployed. If they have found work, they are not unemployed.
Click to expand...

It wasn't worth the time to write this. I doubt he will understand looking at the other posts.
 
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#684
#684
ClearwaterVol said:
Obamacare is a failure, but the question is why? This is a plan that was supported by the insurance companies initially. After it was passed, Republicans refused to work with dems to try and fix the plan.
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Here's a counter question for the Obamacare quip you posted here.

How much help did the DNC ask of the GOP while it was being formulated? The GOP had their own changes, but were shut down real quick like by Pelosi and company.

You can't point the finger at the GOP without having three pointing right back at the source. They knew from the start the whole bill sucked. Which is why they had to bribe (read that as riders specifically worded for very specific members of Congress) the House and Senate to vote for it.
 
#685
#685
Grand Vol said:
Here's a counter question for the Obamacare quip you posted here.

How much help did the DNC ask of the GOP while it was being formulated? The GOP had their own changes, but were shut down real quick like by Pelosi and company.

You can't point the finger at the GOP without having three pointing right back at the source. They knew from the start the whole bill sucked. Which is why they had to bribe (read that as riders specifically worded for very specific members of Congress) the House and Senate to vote for it.
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The biggest problem for Obamacare politically, and now for any repeal and replace alternative, is that there is no way any proposal with any scope is going to lower premiums.

No one is touting a proposal that covers less people, or fewer conditions or procedures. To do so is political suicide.

An no one is backing a proposal that will reduce advances in technology and medicine. To do so is political suicide.

So the raw cost of care is going to go up, no matter what. And the more people you cover, the more will be spent collectively, meaning the more price of insurance goes up for everyone. It is inevitable.

There was no plan that would avoid that then. There is no plan that will avoid that now.


200.gif
 
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#686
#686
lawgator1 said:
The biggest problem for Obamacare politically, and now for any repeal and replace alternative, is that there is no way any proposal with any scope is going to lower premiums.

No one is touting a proposal that covers less people, or fewer conditions or procedures. To do so is political suicide.

An no one is backing a proposal that will reduce advances in technology and medicine. To do so is political suicide.

So the raw cost of care is going to go up, no matter what. And the more people you cover, the more will be spent collectively, meaning the more price of insurance goes up for everyone. It is inevitable.

There was no plan that would avoid that then. There is no plan that will avoid that now.


200.gif
Click to expand...

Thank you for avoiding the substance of my post.
 
#687
#687
lawgator1 said:
The biggest problem for Obamacare politically, and now for any repeal and replace alternative, is that there is no way any proposal with any scope is going to lower premiums.

No one is touting a proposal that covers less people, or fewer conditions or procedures. To do so is political suicide.

An no one is backing a proposal that will reduce advances in technology and medicine. To do so is political suicide.

So the raw cost of care is going to go up, no matter what. And the more people you cover, the more will be spent collectively, meaning the more price of insurance goes up for everyone. It is inevitable.

There was no plan that would avoid that then. There is no plan that will avoid that now.
Click to expand...

All correct, ACA was designed to do do two things. Fail and the only option for replacement be a single payer system. We are too far down the road for the spineless GOP to completely scrap ACA because as you pointed out, political suicide.
 
#688
#688
hog88 said:
All correct, ACA was designed to do do two things. Fail and the only option for replacement be a single payer system. We are too far down the road for the spineless GOP to completely scrap ACA because as you pointed out, political suicide.
Click to expand...

l41lOdPNAs8Z6laA8.gif
 
#689
#689
lawgator1 said:
The biggest problem for Obamacare politically, and now for any repeal and replace alternative, is that there is no way any proposal with any scope is going to lower premiums.

No one is touting a proposal that covers less people, or fewer conditions or procedures. To do so is political suicide.

An no one is backing a proposal that will reduce advances in technology and medicine. To do so is political suicide.

So the raw cost of care is going to go up, no matter what. And the more people you cover, the more will be spent collectively, meaning the more price of insurance goes up for everyone. It is inevitable.

There was no plan that would avoid that then. There is no plan that will avoid that now.


200.gif
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In other words, Obamacare is the heaping pile of **** we all knew it would be and never should have been rammed down our throats in the middle of the night.

Thanks for the obvious.
 
#690
#690
tumscalcium said:
In other words, Obamacare is the heaping pile of **** we all knew it would be and never should have been rammed down our throats in the middle of the night.

Thanks for the obvious.
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So, do you think Trumpcare is going to exacerbate the problems.
 
#692
#692
ClearwaterVol said:
So, do you think Trumpcare is going to exacerbate the problems.
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There shouldn't be a need for Trumpcare!

Here's what's going to happen. There is no fixing ACA but the Rs will put out a half measure trying to alienate as few people as possible. The press and Dems will rail against it like it is Armageddon, it will fail because there is no fixing ACA the only option is to completely scrap it. A dem congress and POTUS will be elected and to save us they will implement a single payer system because the Rs failed.

It will be erased from history that the ACA was the root cause and to blame.
 
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#693
#693
tumscalcium said:
It can't hurt. As stated earlier Obamacare was designed to lead to single payer, the worst health system imaginable.
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Now, that is a mighty big brush you're painting with.

The worst system imaginable? 32 of the 33 most developed nations have universal healthcare. Apparently, most people in developed nations would think you're a bit on the ignorant side.

Where does the US rank in terms of healthcare? Life expectancy? Infant mortality?

It doesn't seem and hasn't seemed for a great many years that America is receiving the ROI for the money spent on its healthcare system. It does seem that other countries with universal healthcare are receiving better value for the money spent.
 
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#694
#694
ClearwaterVol said:
It's obvious you get your news from memes.

He has not disrespected police and the military. (I bet you'll now reply with a quick vid of Obama walking by a military member without showing respect. Don't because Trump disrespected his wife and members of the military on day 1 of his presidency. Forgetting to show proper respect one time out of every 100 or 1000 times isn't a big deal. Everyone forgets or gets distracted, so I don't give the vid you were going to show any credence whatsoever anyway.)

I have a child in school (finishing 8th grade). Thus far, she has been taught that Islam is a religion, just as she has been taught that other religions exist. Just very basic stuff. Certainly, hasn't come home touting the wisdom of Mohammed.

Why are there more illegals in California than any other state? You serious? It shares a border with Mexico and has the largest population of any state that does. Than means more job opportunities. Texas, BTW, has the same percentage of illegal aliens in its state. It just has less because it has a smaller population.

He never said illegals could vote. Only morons that watched a partial video believe that crap.

He supported Islam? How so? All religions are protected in this country. If you mean that he treated muslims with the same respect he showed other religions, then I agree. But I have a feeling that is not quite it.

Obamacare is a failure, but the question is why? This is a plan that was supported by the insurance companies initially. After it was passed, Republicans refused to work with dems to try and fix the plan.

As far as jobs... Unemployment consistently improved over the past 6 years under Obama. Trump has taken credit for saving a few jobs, but he clearly has no understanding of how it all works. Most jobs have been lost to automation not mexicans. Tariffs don't and have not ever worked. It is amazing that those that call themselves conservatives are so aligned with taxing goods and services.

As for not counting jobs that left in the unemployment figures... You've clearly been discussing the issues with bubba while sitting on the porch enjoying a Beech-Nut, but that is not how it works. If the people who were employed by a company that ran to Mexico are on unemployment and have not found work... they count as unemployed. If they have found work, they are not unemployed.
Click to expand...

Can't talk to a liberal! Guess you voted for Obama both times and Hillary 2016. The Democrats seem to want total control of the country. Can you tell me when Obama NEVER lied.🤔 Talk to several veterans and find out what they thought of Presidents 43-45. Who cared most for vets?
Bet you think Obama wasn't a Muslim either.
 
#695
#695
ClearwaterVol said:
Now, that is a mighty big brush you're painting with.

The worst system imaginable? 32 of the 33 most developed nations have universal healthcare. Apparently, most people in developed nations would think you're a bit on the ignorant side.

Where does the US rank in terms of healthcare? Life expectancy? Infant mortality?

It doesn't seem and hasn't seemed for a great many years that America is receiving the ROI for the money spent on its healthcare system. It does seem that other countries with universal healthcare are receiving better value for the money spent.
Click to expand...

Do you care to point out what all those other countries have in common?
 
#696
#696
TennFan said:
Can't talk to a liberal! Guess you voted for Obama both times and Hillary 2016. The Democrats seem to want total control of the country. Can you tell me when Obama NEVER lied.�� Talk to several veterans and find out what they thought of Presidents 43-45. Who cared most for vets?
Bet you think Obama wasn't a Muslim either.
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Keep its coming. This is pure gold. :eek:lol::rofl:
 
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#697
#697
Grand Vol said:
Thank you for avoiding the substance of my post.
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Sorry. But did not think your question really raises all that great a mystery.

The answer is that the situations were different.


THEN

The GOP leadership, within hours of Obama being inaugurated, announced that their sole goal in life was to oppose anything Obama proposed and supported. The House and Senate Dems, however, were overwhelmingly Obama supporters and happy to tie their collective fates to his on the health care issue at the time.

Many of the Dems in the Congress then regret that now. But point is, the GOP at the time had made it clear they would not support it, even if they wanted to, if for no other reason than that to break ranks with the do-nothing pledge of McConnell et al meant certain death in terms of GOP $ for reelection.

Even the appearance of bipartisnaship was summarily shot in the head by McConnell, from the gito.

NOW

The GOP now is factionalized. And, especially having seen what happened to the Dems when they merrily went along with the ACA, are now hesitant to pass something just to pass something.

There are enough GOPers who think they are better off distancing themselves from either Trump, or the proposal, or both, and think they can explain their non-support when the time comes, such that Trump (and Ryan) have to find votes.

CONCLUSION

So, you are right that the GOP is professing to seek Dem input. I don't think anyone buys that it is a meaningful gesture on their part, but you can go ahead and believe that if it makes you feel like warm and fuzzy.

And, yes, at the time the GOP was ignored when the ACA was passed. So you can take some sort of perverse delight in that if it makes you feel superior, but don't forget that the context was that the GOP had pre-announced that it would not EVER work with Obama. On anything. Did I mention EVER?
 
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#698
#698
lawgator1 said:
Sorry. But did not think your question really raises all that great a mystery.

The answer is that the situations were different.


THEN

The GOP leadership, within hours of Obama being inaugurated, announced that their sole goal in life was to oppose anything Obama proposed and supported. The House and Senate Dems, however, were overwhelmingly Obama supporters and happy to tie their collective fates to his on the health care issue at the time.

Many of the Dems in the Congress then regret that now. But point is, the GOP at the time had made it clear they would not support it, even if they wanted to, if for no other reason than that to break ranks with the do-nothing pledge of McConnell et al meant certain death in terms of GOP $ for reelection.

Even the appearance of bipartisnaship was summarily shot in the head by McConnell, from the gito.

NOW

The GOP now is factionalized. And, especially having seen what happened to the Dems when they merrily went along with the ACA, are now hesitant to pass something just to pass something.

There are enough GOPers who think they are better off distancing themselves from either Trump, or the proposal, or both, and think they can explain their non-support when the time comes, such that Trump (and Ryan) have to find votes.

CONCLUSION

So, you are right that the GOP is professing to seek Dem input. I don't think anyone buys that it is a meaningful gesture on their part, but you can go ahead and believe that if it makes you feel like warm and fuzzy.

And, yes, at the time the GOP was ignored when the ACA was passed. So you can take some sort of perverse delight in that if it makes you feel superior, but don't forget that the context was that the GOP had pre-announced that it would not EVER work with Obama. On anything. Did I mention EVER?
Click to expand...

Dems are pretty much doing the same to Trump.
Can you prove that everything that Obama did was good?
 
#700
#700
lawgator1 said:
And, yes, at the time the GOP was ignored when the ACA was passed. So you can take some sort of perverse delight in that if it makes you feel superior, but don't forget that the context was that the GOP had pre-announced that it would not EVER work with Obama. On anything. Did I mention EVER?
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Oh LG...

And I hate using Politifact as a source. But still...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...says-health-plan-incorporates-ideas-of-Democ/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...tierrez-says-hundreds-republican-amendments-/

And we know how willing the DNC was to work with the GOP back then. Unrelated to the passage of the ACA, but certainly indicative of the environment at that time...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/22/AR2009102204442.html

On Monday, panel Democrats had the lock changed on the door leading from the GOP's office space into the main hearing room. They did so, Towns' office said, because Republicans "don't know how to behave."

"I think it was a breach of decorum," Issa said of the lockout.
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And from the horse's mouth:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/29/pelosi-not-planning-to-al_n_339188.html

And of course the famous "you'll have to pass it to see what's in it" comment. And we've certainly figured that out with the skyrocketing premiums and dropped coverage. Lest we forget the Cornhusker debacle.

Now, having said all that to say this. The GOP has massively and utterly failed at repealing and replacing the ACA. In short, they had seven years to come up with a bulletproof plan and stomped all over their dicks when they introduced the replacement. While it won't swing the Senate or House back the other way, it certainly isn't going to help any of the incumbents against potentially fiery upstarts in the primary races.

Just admit it isn't a right/left issue and say "Congress is completely ****ed on the subject of health care and nobody is ever going to be happy."
 
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