19 Year Old Dies After Denial From Transplant List For Trace THC

#326
#326
Question for those who still refuse to understand anything about transplant risks, candidate screening, etc:

Have you ever smoked or seen someone smoke pot and then go into a horrendous coughing spell? Yeah? Well, that's not good for transplanted organs.

It's amazing all the "experts" that like to show up when a story emerges involving MJ. No, it is not linked to a bunch of long-term serious medical issues (including cancer). No, it does not have as severe medical consequences as a number of both illegal and legal drugs. Yes, it is linked to higher rates of mental illness. Yes, it can have potent intoxicating effects that can be dangerous when driving, etc. Yes, it causes acute respiratory inflammation when smoked. Yes, it can become habit-forming and addictive.

Those are the facts.
 
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#328
#328
kiddiedoc said:
Question for those who still refuse to understand anything about transplant risks, candidate screening, etc:

Have you ever smoked or seen someone smoke pot and then go into a horrendous coughing spell? Yeah? Well, that's not good for transplanted organs.

It's amazing all the "experts" that like to show up when a story emerges involving MJ. No, it is not linked to a bunch of long-term serious medical issues (including cancer). No, it does not have as severe medical consequences as a number of both illegal and legal drugs. Yes, it is linked to higher rates of mental illness. Yes, it can have potent intoxicating effects that can be dangerous when driving, etc. Yes, it causes acute respiratory inflammation when smoked. Yes, it can become habit-forming and addictive.

Those are the facts.
Click to expand...

How about posting some of the facts about prescription pain meds while you're at it? Do you think prescribed meds are best for every patient if some form of marijuana as a pain management alternative is a viable option? How many deaths are attributed to pain pill addiction every year? How many property crimes are directly related to the prescription pain pill industry? When doors into my house were kicked in and nothing was taken, but all of the drawers were pulled out, do you suppose that the criminal was hunting for my stashes of mouthwash and toothpaste?
 
#329
#329
Thunder Good-Oil said:
How about posting some of the facts about prescription pain meds while you're at it? Do you think prescribed meds are best for every patient if some form of marijuana as a pain management alternative is a viable option? How many deaths are attributed to pain pill addiction every year? How many property crimes are directly related to the prescription pain pill industry? When doors into my house were kicked in and nothing was taken, but all of the drawers were pulled out, do you suppose that the criminal was hunting for my stashes of mouthwash and toothpaste?
Click to expand...

All irrelevant to this discussion. Pain med stats should be easy to find if you are that interested.
 
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#330
#330
kiddiedoc said:
All irrelevant to this discussion. Pain med stats should be easy to find if you are that interested.
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You could answer at least one of those questions very easily. Like the second one above. Or do you have an agenda based on morality? I'm not mocking you, although you've taken several shots... possibly directed at me. I'm asking serious questions, but they're being ignored by the righteous board dudes.

It's very relevant to the discussion. In their press release, why did the Utah hospital refer to THC as illicit instead of saying smoking something can decrease the success rate with lung transplants? Why would THC cause somebody needing a liver to lose their place on a waiting list? Isn't marijuana a viable pain management option that does less damage to livers when compared to many of the pills being peddled by Big Pharma? I'm not disagreeing that somebody on a lung transplant waiting list ought not be smoking anything. I also don't think that those on a heart list need to have a ****ty diet... but how could that be monitored?
 
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#332
#332
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I'll just leave this article about a study here...

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/free-lunches-pay-drug-companies-study-shows-n595906
Click to expand...

WTF does a free fricking pen have to do with an INTERNATIONALLY DEVELOPED PROTOCOL for transplant acceptance?

I'll tell you ...ZERO, ZED, NIL, NADA, ... NOTHING.

We get it. You have a burr up your azz over pot still being illegal and you want it to be accepted as God's gift to mankind as Dr. Goodthunder's Amazing Cure for Broken Bones, Hives, Fleas, All Manner of Stomach Disorders, Baldness, Sacrilliosis, The Gout, and Most Common Miseries.

But what you're doing is hijacking the thread.

"Illicit" "Illicit" "Illicit" "Illicit"
"Illicit" "Illicit"

bet that made yer eyes bug out.
 
#333
#333
Orangedogsrule said:
WTF does a free fricking pen have to do with an INTERNATIONALLY DEVELOPED PROTOCOL for transplant acceptance?

I'll tell you ...ZERO, ZED, NIL, NADA, ... NOTHING.

We get it. You have a burr up your azz over pot still being illegal and you want it to be accepted as God's gift to mankind as Dr. Goodthunder's Amazing Cure for Broken Bones, Hives, Fleas, All Manner of Stomach Disorders, Baldness, Sacrilliosis, The Gout, and Most Common Miseries.

But what you're doing is hijacking the thread.

"Illicit" "Illicit" "Illicit" "Illicit"
"Illicit" "Illicit"

bet that made yer eyes bug out.
Click to expand...

It's all related. Illicit THC is a deal breaker. Who benefits by keeping it illegal and illicit? Still no explanation why THC should knock a liver patient off of the list but the pain med products peddled by Big Pharma won't. How can a thread be hijacked when the questions I'm asking are about marijuana as a pain med and the OP was about a teenager that lost an opportunity for a liver transplant because of the THC in his system?

And "free pen"? LOL... Pharma reps are going quite a bit beyond that. I know several of them. Even dated a few.
 
#334
#334
Thunder Good-Oil said:
It wasn't a secret that he previously had THC in his system. He admitted to having used the illicit substance 4 months earlier. Hardly seems long enough to determine if he'd kicked his reefers habit.
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He must have been a heavy user to test positive 4 months later.
 
#335
#335
I can't speak to universal guidelines, but every week I have blood tests. I have no idea if they test for drugs, but I have no intention of finding out. They tell you up front that the number of organs that become available is limited so you cannot drink or do illicit drugs. The truth is, despite all the studies, no one fully knows how marijuana truly effects the body and they're not going to risk a perfectly good organ on someone who's going to admittedly put it at risk.
 
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#336
#336
Now, my problem with all of these studies is the vast majority are done by people who have never smoked weed. they form opinions on something they've never done, and the medicinal effects are overlooked.

The liver processes the vast majority of the medicines/drugs we take(or so I was told). Because of this, I'm not allowed any pain meds. I would love to fire up a bowl just to take the edge off, but I'm not going to risk my spot on the transplant list.
 
#337
#337
Weezer said:
He must have been a heavy user to test positive 4 months later.
Click to expand...

He didn't. Or at least the article didn't indicate that he did. One of the things that bothers me about this situation is that it doesn't appear that he was a user. He smoked it one time and was knocked down the list. I'm not even sure if he hadn't smoked it BEFORE he had the agreement with the Utah hospital. It stays in the system for a long time so the sequence of events could have been (1) smoke a tiny amount with his buddy, (2) enter into an agreement with the keepers of the extra body parts, (3) a positive test for the one time event (1) that preceded the agreement (2).

It also bothers me that even if it was prescribed for pain management instead of a chemical being promoted by Big Pharma... a positive test for THC would **** up the pecking order. I think that these INTERNATIONALLY DEVELOPED PROTOCOLS might ought to be revisited and decisions are made free from the influence of the pharmaceutical companies.
 
#338
#338
And if you consider marijuana "bad", you need to reconsider your stance on several other things.

Whether or not you choose to use pot is your choice. Those that do are not bad simply because you choose no to indulge.
 
#339
#339
Since you have an agenda and you evidently did not download and read the .pdf link I provided.

Questions and Answers for Transplant Candidates about Lung Allocation
by UNOS The United Network for Organ Sharing.


Here is a quote.

..."The supply of donor lungs is limited. This allocation system effectively uses the limited number of donor lungs and has reduced the number of deaths of people waiting for a transplant. The OPTN designed the lung allocation score system by studying scientific data on lung transplantation and by drawing on experience with many types of lung diseases."...

The lung allocation score system does indeed require physicians to evaluate not just for OMG illicit drugs, but all drugs. Everything the patient takes that's a legal or illegal drug or OTC drug or food supplement. Every frickin thing you take that can have an effect on your vital functions. Hell, they do that for an EGD or Colonoscopy. "Bring a list of your current Rx's, OTC's, and Supplements".

Some of these have serious interactions and side effects.

Statins are for cholesterol. The supplement Red Rice Yeast also lowers cholosterol but it also thins the blood you could bleed out in surgery and die,...from a legal food supplement. Others, like the opiods you are also focusing on, are central nervous system depressants and lower blood pressure. Also potentially deadly.

The focus placed on marijuana as "illicit" in this thread as "the" reason for not placing the OP's patient on the waiting list (he was never on it, he had no 'contract') is false.

All drugs, "illicit" or otherwise have side effects and interactions. By limiting these, the person getting a lung transplant has a higher probability for an extended life.

It's simple, really. Beating the drum for "if marijuana was legal" and "if marijuana was reclassified then studies could be done" is .... yawn, I'm going to sleep. Like my 3:25 in the morning thread will likely put you, dear reader.
 
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#340
#340
Thunder Good-Oil said:
He didn't. Or at least the article didn't indicate that he did. One of the things that bothers me about this situation is that it doesn't appear that he was a user. He smoked it one time and was knocked down the list. I'm not even sure if he hadn't smoked it BEFORE he had the agreement with the Utah hospital. It stays in the system for a long time so the sequence of events could have been (1) smoke a tiny amount with his buddy, (2) enter into an agreement with the keepers of the extra body parts, (3) a positive test for the one time event (1) that preceded the agreement (2).

It also bothers me that even if it was prescribed for pain management instead of a chemical being promoted by Big Pharma... a positive test for THC would **** up the pecking order. I think that these INTERNATIONALLY DEVELOPED PROTOCOLS might ought to be revisited and decisions are made free from the influence of the pharmaceutical companies.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of a one time user testing positive 4 months later. A one time user should be totally clean after 30 days.


If lung transplants are like liver transplants, there's a governing body in the U.S. that sets guidelines. UNOS may oversee all organ transplants. I'm not sure.
 
#341
#341
Weezer said:
Now, my problem with all of these studies is the vast majority are done by people who have never smoked weed. they form opinions on something they've never done, and the medicinal effects are overlooked.

The liver processes the vast majority of the medicines/drugs we take(or so I was told). Because of this, I'm not allowed any pain meds. I would love to fire up a bowl just to take the edge off, but I'm not going to risk my spot on the transplant list.
Click to expand...

And where is the harm in prescribing a form of THC to ease a patient's pain? Is eating a brownie going to ruin a lung? Should recipients be put in order according to their tolerance for pain? How much harm does THC do to the transplant success rate and how should that be measured against patient suffering?

I'd like to know if only liver patients are not allowed pain meds or if the waiting list is for other organs as well.
 
#342
#342
Thunder Good-Oil said:
And where is the harm in prescribing a form of THC to ease a patient's pain? Is eating a brownie going to ruin a lung? Should recipients be put in order according to their tolerance for pain? How much harm does THC do to the transplant success rate and how should that be measured against patient suffering?

I'd like to know if only liver patients are not allowed pain meds or if the waiting list is for other organs as well.
Click to expand...

I have no idea. All I know is the doctor says "you can't do that" so I don't. Not going to risk it.
 
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#343
#343
Riley Hancey came down with a severe form of pneumonia over Thanksgiving

Doctors at the University of Utah said he needed a double lung transplant

He was denied a spot on the transplant list because he had THC in his system

Doctors said that he would need a double lung transplant to survive. But they denied him a place on the transplant list after finding THC - the main intoxicant in marijuana - in his system, reported KFOR.
 
#344
#344
Just read the article in full. this article is full of misrepresentation, imo. There's no proof the delay in transplant resulted in his death. Complications after the surgery killed him.
 
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#345
#345
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Riley Hancey came down with a severe form of pneumonia over Thanksgiving

Doctors at the University of Utah said he needed a double lung transplant

He was denied a spot on the transplant list because he had THC in his system

Doctors said that he would need a double lung transplant to survive. But they denied him a place on the transplant list after finding THC - the main intoxicant in marijuana - in his system, reported KFOR.
Click to expand...

The blood test in Utah was within a month of his use, which is why he tested positive. Pennsylvania most likely ran their own tests, which were clean, hence him getting his transplant.
 
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#346
#346
And to reiterate something I hit on in an earlier post. Guide lines are in place to ensure the best possible candidates receive the organs. The supply is limited, so you're not going to give an organ that will save someone else's life to someone who might waste it. That's just the way it works. "Mine is not to reason why, mine is but to do,"
 
#347
#347
Thunder Good-Oil said:
And where is the harm in prescribing a form of THC to ease a patient's pain?
Click to expand...

It's about known drug effects, side effects, and drug interaction with other drugs. It is NOT about what is or is not "illicit".
They have plenty of painkillers they know the interactions for they can use.

Is eating a brownie going to ruin a lung?
Click to expand...

No, but THC is metabolized in the liver, and Weezer is right in not adding a further unknown burden to his liver. The studies at Michigan show eating the THC brownies slightly lowers the liver transplant recipient's long term survival prospects. Since medical marijuana laws, new studies with controls for THC effects on various organs may show other outcomes.

Should recipients be put in order according to their tolerance for pain?
Click to expand...

What? Why? Where did this come from. THC is an effective pain killer. It is a pain distractor and so THC is not always more effective than pain blockers for pain management.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...a-pain-killerits-a-pain-distracter-169786068/

How much harm does THC do to the transplant success rate and how should that be measured against patient suffering?
Click to expand...

Previously answered. Limited studies done.
Previous THC users who successfully quit and passed the toxicology test have a slightly lower survival rate than those who never used over the long term.

However, (very short term (3 weeks to a couple mo.?) they had a slightly higher survival rate.

I'd like to know if only liver patients are not allowed pain meds or if the waiting list is for other organs as well.
Click to expand...

Go look it up. i said im giong tu zleep

Either:

1: You're not really reading my posts because they don't support your agenda

2: You read with no comprehension

3: You don't like what I've said so you blocked my posts.
 
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#348
#348
Weezer said:
The blood test in Utah was within a month of his use, which is why he tested positive. Pennsylvania most likely ran their own tests, which were clean, hence him getting his transplant.
Click to expand...

It was pretty much immediate. He smoked with his buddy over Thanksgiving. He became deathly ill immediately after that. But he apparently he had to wait until the illicit substance was no longer in his system. Contrast that with somebody waiting for a liver. Maybe they've damaged it directly due to alcohol abuse. Then they had a beer with a buddy. Three days later, or however long it takes to no longer be detectable in their system, their liver fails and they need an immediate transplant. So they get one because they detected no alcohol in their system... but a guy that could have just inhaled the only reefer in his entire life has to wait 30 days for a lung. After all... it's illicit. Whatever the **** that means.
 
#350
#350
LouderVol said:
What does this have to do with the OP?

like I said straw men.

the opioids you mentioned are a controlled substance prescribed by doctors. I haven't heard anyone say weed shouldn't be allowed for medical uses if prescribed. This is a medical case where a bunch of things, most of them legal, and including weed, are not allowed.
Click to expand...
It isn't allowed, and there's a reason medical use can't even get a foothold in states in Tennessee. Do realize how ridiculous it will look one today to realize that pot was recreationally legal in some states and not even medically legal in others.

Knoxville Police chief Roucsh just said something to that effect in opposing ANY legalization.
Law enforcement and the DEA would be far better served cracking down on the liberal prescribing pain clinics and access to opiods, than fiddling with pot smoking.
 
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