Orangeslice13, a blessing to those around him…..Again

#5,752
#5,752
MaxamusXIII said:
Easter

325CE the Council of Nicaea established that Easter would be held on the first Sunday after the first full moon occurring on or after the vernal equinox.(*) From that point forward, the Easter date depended on the ecclesiastical approximation of March 21 for the vernal equinox

Pagan equinox of Ishtar.

Passover
or Pesach in Hebrew, the holiday begins on the 15th day of Nisan, which is the seventh month in the Jewish calendar.

Callender date established by Torah.
Click to expand...

everything I have read says Nissan is the first month?
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+day+of+the+jewish+calendar+is+passover&oq=what+day+of+the+jewish+calendar+is+passover&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.8319j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

also care to comment on the timing part how Christmas and Easter and all their paganess falls on Jewish holidays? as you pointed out with Passover being on the 15th of Nissan, easter is the 16th of april. and Chanukah starts the 25th of Kislev, your 12th month. and christmas always falls on the 25th of our 12th month....

starting to get uncomfortable with linking our holidays to pagans ones now? and I won't even get into some of symbolism we share with you guys. admittedly this is just the Catholic view, but seeing as how we trace our roots back to the jews with Jesus it carries some weight.
 
#5,754
#5,754
Wasn't it the early Catholics who moved Christian celebrations to pagan holidays as a method of bringing the heathens into the faith?

Co-opt their pagan celebrations by making them about the Lord & Savior?
 
#5,756
#5,756
LouderVol said:
everything I have read says Nissan is the first month?
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+day+of+the+jewish+calendar+is+passover&oq=what+day+of+the+jewish+calendar+is+passover&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.8319j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

also care to comment on the timing part how Christmas and Easter and all their paganess falls on Jewish holidays? as you pointed out with Passover being on the 15th of Nissan, easter is the 16th of april. and Chanukah starts the 25th of Kislev, your 12th month. and christmas always falls on the 25th of our 12th month....

starting to get uncomfortable with linking our holidays to pagans ones now? and I won't even get into some of symbolism we share with you guys. admittedly this is just the Catholic view, but seeing as how we trace our roots back to the jews with Jesus it carries some weight.
Click to expand...

Chanukah is not a biblical feast
It is a Jewish holiday but not relevant to this conversation.

Christ Mass is supposed to be about Messiahs birth. 9 months (ish) after the pagan fertility festival of Istar. Pronounced Easter.
Chanukah is not related to the Messiahs birth in any way and is therefore not relevant to this conversation.
And for the record Messiahs birth was in the spring likely at Passover. Not the winter solstice as the Pagans would have you believe.
Ask yourself why would the sheep be in the fields at Bethlehem when Messiah was born.
Could it be that Jerusalem was just a mile or two away and those sheep would be needed for sacrifice?
 
#5,757
#5,757
Loudy
My argument isn't Jew vs Pagan
My argument is that Christianity as a whole has lost its way giving up its Judaism base in favor of pagan influences that was never asked by G-d and.

The Messiah is the completion of Judaism.
And before you go all "Jesus saved us out of that...... consider the words of the man your religion is supposed to be built on.
Mathew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Notice it's the house of Israel that he came too. Not the Jews. Not the Gentiles.
With a little research you can find the definition in Torah. Being the fulfillment of Torah....that's probably who Messiah is speaking about.
 
#5,759
#5,759
LouderVol said:
everything I have read says Nissan is the first month?
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+day+of+the+jewish+calendar+is+passover&oq=what+day+of+the+jewish+calendar+is+passover&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.8319j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

also care to comment on the timing part how Christmas and Easter and all their paganess falls on Jewish holidays? as you pointed out with Passover being on the 15th of Nissan, easter is the 16th of april. and Chanukah starts the 25th of Kislev, your 12th month. and christmas always falls on the 25th of our 12th month....

starting to get uncomfortable with linking our holidays to pagans ones now? and I won't even get into some of symbolism we share with you guys. admittedly this is just the Catholic view, but seeing as how we trace our roots back to the jews with Jesus it carries some weight.
Click to expand...

Nissan is a car manufacturer.
 
#5,762
#5,762
nissan_atlas_truck.jpg


Visual evidence.
 
#5,763
#5,763
MaxamusXIII said:
Chanukah is not a biblical feast
It is a Jewish holiday but not relevant to this conversation.

Christ Mass is supposed to be about Messiahs birth. 9 months (ish) after the pagan fertility festival of Istar. Pronounced Easter.
Chanukah is not related to the Messiahs birth in any way and is therefore not relevant to this conversation.
And for the record Messiahs birth was in the spring likely at Passover. Not the winter solstice as the Pagans would have you believe.
Ask yourself why would the sheep be in the fields at Bethlehem when Messiah was born.
Could it be that Jerusalem was just a mile or two away and those sheep would be needed for sacrifice?
Click to expand...

so the jews only keep sheep for slaughter of Passover? I learn something new everyday. and neither is the solisctice, as you pointed out with Ishtar spring is about birth, not december. and then the Passover was all about the jews being saved/spared right? and Easter is about Jesus dying to save all of us right? you can argue dates and names all you want, I will argue actual ties back to faith. the stronger you tie Christianity to paganism the stronger you are tying Judaism to paganism as well. but you ignore it because its inconvenient.

and again you are making distinctions for Jews but not for Christians. I apply the same logic back and you get in a huff.

the church could decide we were celebrating christmas and easter in august back to back and it wouldn't change anything.

also care to comment on the church adopting the 40 day periods around the major holidays also matching some frugal friends of ours?

and you point about the alignment isn't necessary, not denying the timing or the name, faith separates it and thats enough for me. I am just asking how you rationalize the same thing for your Jewish holidays. again go back and research the pagan faiths and holidays of the era. Especially all the blood sacrifice you jews love. particularly your new year and penance attached to that and how the creation of the celebration saved the Jews from their neighbors. I can only lead a horse to water. can't make you drink.

and while the pagan references are easier and more recent its a convenient argument to cover the references back to Judaism, nothing more.
 
#5,764
#5,764
Again, I'm just asking a question that I'm not sure of the answer. Just trying to keep up here.

Does someone that practices Judaism believe that Jesus is the Son of God?
 
#5,766
#5,766
There are some things I've never cared to know, but I'd like to at least have an idea of some of what these guys are talking about so I'm not completely lost. I find it interesting.
 
#5,767
#5,767
Behr said:
There are some things I've never cared to know, but I'd like to at least have an idea of some of what these guys are talking about so I'm not completely lost. I find it interesting.
Click to expand...

its my understanding that Jews in general do not believe Jesus was the Messiah (Son of God come down to save the world). they had/have a much more selfish view of who the Messiah should have been (which is why they will continue to wait). most do admit Jesus was at least a prophet/holy/special person (at least of the ones I know).

Slice *associates with* a group of Jews that believe Jesus was the Messiah. But they adhere to the set of traditions and rules that forced God to send his Son down here to correct things. (feel free to correct me here Slice on what you guys actually believe, its tough to remember what you pick and choose and believe in)
 
#5,768
#5,768
Thanks for your attempt. I'm even more confused now, but Ill assume the responsibility of being so.
 
#5,769
#5,769
LouderVol said:
its my understanding that Jews in general do not believe Jesus was the Messiah (Son of God come down to save the world). they had/have a much more selfish view of who the Messiah should have been (which is why they will continue to wait). most do admit Jesus was at least a prophet/holy/special person (at least of the ones I know).

Slice *associates with* a group of Jews that believe Jesus was the Messiah. But they adhere to the set of traditions and rules that forced God to send his Son down here to correct things. (feel free to correct me here Slice on what you guys actually believe, its tough to remember what you pick and choose and believe in)
Click to expand...
That's why their holy men had the Romans kill him on a cross.
 
#5,771
#5,771
Yea, that might help a little, but not sure it wouldn't be a waste of time.
 
#5,773
#5,773
Lol. Perfect, now I have a bunch of other stuff you can help me with. Where do babies come from?
 
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