Alvin Kamara as a top 10 pick? At least one mock draft says YES.

#76
#76
livefaith said:
I would probably be impressed, except for the fact that you have said similar things about 1/2 our roster at one point or another. So, I'm just going to lean on the wisdom of old instead ...

"A stopped clock is right twice each day".

"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time".

"Keep throwing $h1T at the wall, and see what sticks".

... but, nevertheless, happy that Alvin is moving up that charts. :good!:
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How bout, "Give a monkey a typewriter and he will eventually spell a word."
 
#77
#77
LittleVol said:
Alvin Kamara is about to be a 1st round draft in a loaded RB class.

Think about that...
How many of those guys were 1st rounders?
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He "might" be first round and I hope that's the case but it hasn't happened yet. Webb, who as far as I can tell is remembered as the best of the bunch, ruined his knee against Pacific and never really came back. Even after not playing another down of college his cred was enough for Green Bay to take him in the 3rd round and being the 9th RB taken. He never recovered and never really played in the NFL.

Lewis and Stewart were 1st rounders and the 1st and 3rd RB taken. Garner/Henry/Cobb were all 2nd rounders with none lower than the 6th RB taken. (Cobb being kicked off the team and Henry scoring a 9 on his Wonderlic probably hurt their position but it's impossible to say how much)
 
#79
#79
KBVol said:
1. Talk about TKJr potentially being moved to LB, which I seriously doubt happens, has zero to do with him being "fat". Jesus dude. It had much more to do with needing more linebackers in Shoop's system and TKJr's athletic ability/speed which is average for a safety, but would be very good for a OLB. TKJrs strength is run support, not covering WRs.

2. The idea that AK suddenly changed his body composition is your myth and your myth only to explain away why you didn't say two words about him in 2015, but are now praising him for his 2016 year after the fact.

He was the exact same player in2016 that he was in 2015, with the ONLY difference being that the slow, lumbering jumbo back that you loved so much was gone from the team the last half of the season and Kamara finally got his chance to be the man so everybody could see just how good he really is. Plenty fans already knew and had been saying it for over a year.....you weren't one of them.
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I didn't say two words about Kamara? Aren't you the same guy who got on me for predicting we would have 2 RBs in 2016 that had over 1000+ yards and 10+ TDs? I'm pretty sure I was predicting a huge season for Kamara in 2016. I'm pretty sure I was predicting he would be a 2nd-3rd round pick. I just didn't see him as potentially another Marshall Faulk just yet.

And I'm pretty sure you weren't calling him a first round prospect last year. You weren't predicting any huge season. The only time you ever talked about him was to diss Jalen Hurd. The only difference was you hated Jalen Hurd.

And since you want to talk about me changing my tune about a player after the 2016 season. How about you and Josh Dobbs? After the 2015 season you were adamant he would not be an NFL QB and that his 2016 season would not be much better than his 2015 season. Now you're doing nothing but blowing roses up his behind. Its been a while since I've had to battle you about Josh. Compared to last year when all you did was try to diminish Dobbs as a QB.

So explain that change of heart?
 
#80
#80
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Can't believe I forgot James Conner RB from Pitt. He's my new #2 RB after Alvin.

Here's my updated top 10 prospects for 2017:

1. DE Myles Garrett (Texas A&M)
2. DL Solomon Thomas (Stanford)
3. WR Corey Davis (Western Michigan)
4. CB Cameron Sutton (Tennessee)
5. RB Alvin Kamara (Tennessee)
6. RB James Conner (Pittsburgh)
7. TE David Njoku (Miami)
8. QB Josh Dobbs (Tennessee)
9. CB Ahkello Witherspoon (Colorado)
10. TE Evan Engram (Ole Miss)

James Conner >>> Leonard Fournette

Just remember that.
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D4H your thoughts on Obi Melifonwu, seems like your type of prospect. And why do you like Cam Sutton and Ahkello Witherspoon more than Corderea Tankersley?
 
#81
#81
pricevol5 said:
D4H your thoughts on Obi Melifonwu, seems like your type of prospect. And why do you like Cam Sutton and Ahkello Witherspoon more than Corderea Tankersley?
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Melinfonwu is more athlete than football player. I think he's getting overhyped right now because he tested so well at the combine. I think he's a 3rd round pick.

Cam Sutton and Ahkello Witherspoon have better hips and ability to read and react than Tankersley. Cam is probably the most instinctive CB in this class. And Witherspoon has incredible potential based on his length and speed.
 
#82
#82
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Melinfonwu is more athlete than football player. I think he's getting overhyped right now because he tested so well at the combine. I think he's a 3rd round pick.

Cam Sutton and Ahkello Witherspoon have better hips and ability to read and react than Tankersley. Cam is probably the most instinctive CB in this class. And Witherspoon has incredible potential based on his length and speed.
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The Witherspoon kid is interesting,because I've thought hes been very underrated. I personally think Tankersley willbe the best corner in this class and he, along with Tredavious White of LSU are the instinctual and pure corners in this class, guys that will excel in any scheme. I also think Kevin King could be a star in the right scheme, like Atlanta. Reminds me of a more polished Richard Sherman coming out.

Interesting your take on Melifonwu and I'll throw you a bone and play devils advocate on one of your notorious takes. You said Dobbs/athletic QBs fall victim and arent judged fairly due to their athleticism sometimes. I personally think Obi is falling into this category because he tested so well. His production is far better than Byron Jones, who has turned out to be solid, and he really flashes at times when you watch them. I think people see how freakish he is and wonder why he wasnt the best safety in college football. If he falls to Seattle in rnd 1 I think they would be foolish to pass.
 
#83
#83
Way too many people on this board that understand and research this stuff more than I do. But with the way the NFL has been trending, I just don't see Kamara getting picked until the third round. I hope I am wrong, yet the past decade, unless it is a generational talent, running backs seem to be disposable commodities.
 
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#85
#85
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I didn't say two words about Kamara? Aren't you the same guy who got on me for predicting we would have 2 RBs in 2016 that had over 1000+ yards and 10+ TDs? I'm pretty sure I was predicting a huge season for Kamara in 2016. I'm pretty sure I was predicting he would be a 2nd-3rd round pick. I just didn't see him as potentially another Marshall Faulk just yet.

And I'm pretty sure you weren't calling him a first round prospect last year. You weren't predicting any huge season. The only time you ever talked about him was to diss Jalen Hurd. The only difference was you hated Jalen Hurd.

And since you want to talk about me changing my tune about a player after the 2016 season. How about you and Josh Dobbs? After the 2015 season you were adamant he would not be an NFL QB and that his 2016 season would not be much better than his 2015 season. Now you're doing nothing but blowing roses up his behind. Its been a while since I've had to battle you about Josh. Compared to last year when all you did was try to diminish Dobbs as a QB.

So explain that change of heart?
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The point is Hurd was your guy and you constantly had Alvin playing second fiddle to him. You consistently argued with anyone who said Alvin should have a more prominent role in the offense while screaming from the mountaintops that Hurd was the best RB in the country.....while plenty of us could see he wasn't even the best RB on his own team.

As far as your predictions for yards and tds for AK, neither I nor anybody else even took them serious, I doubt you did either.....just more hyperbolic rubbish from you, as usual. And while you did have AK running for 1,000 yards, you still had Hurd running for 1,600 or 1,800 yards, depending on the day you made your prediction. (Of course we know that was just you hedging). Btw, you were slightly off on both. Lol.

And no I wasn't calling AK a first round pick back then...he'll, I'm not doing it now, that's your schtick, not mine. I hope he's the first pick in the draft, but suspect he'll go late 1st or early 2nd, but I'm certainly not foolishly declaring or proclaiming it....again, that's your role.

I didn't diss Hurd. I said many times that if Jones wants to keep Hurd as his feature back then fine, let him be the workhorse, but that the ratio should NEVER BE 29 touches for Hurd, 6-7 for Kamara, and that that's foolish and hurts the team. I advocated for 20-22 touches for Jalen and never less than 14-15 for AK. Suggested that the touches come from Dobbs even, to help keep him healthy.

I have never "hated" on Jalen, just honestly said what I saw......a big back with decent speed, poor burst, poor open field vision, no breakaway ability and got tackled way, way too often for loss or no gain and by the first guy, especially if running parallel to the los. I also said he has outstanding hands, is great catching the ball out of the backfield and was very good in pass pro.....being involved in the passing game was his strength, not necessarily running the ball.

As far as Dobbs, you're wrong again, never said he wouldn't play in the NFL, just argued over and over again with you, like so many have, that he wasn't the best qb in the SEC and country and was by no means wasn't a 1st round pick and wasn't gonna win the heisman....all of which is true, except perhaps him being the best SEC QB last year, the last 4-5 games of the season anyway.

Also, I'll remind you again that I was here, defending Dobbs when he was a freshman, before you were even on VN. I argued with posters that he looked pretty good in his second half debut vs Alabama, was really good vs Missouri, his first start- he was literally the only guy who showed up that night, was our leading rusher and would've approached 300 yards passing had Josh Smith not dropped a perfectly thrown pass on a seam route that surely would been a touchdown- won the game vs Vandy with a TD run that was unfortunately called back due to a unecessary block in the back by Pig Howard and I argued that while he was listed a prostyle qb, that he had really shown good running ability by having a 30 yard run or better in 3 of the 5 games he played in (you'd be surprised how many posters argued with me that he couldn't run either).

I've only ever argued with you about Josh when you've made outlandish predictions and assessments, which was every day. I've been a fan of his from day one, love who he is as a young man and ambassador for Tennessee and have only ever expressed frustration with his actual play a handful of times, primarily in 2015, when he struggled making fairly routine plays.

Btw, he absolutely did improve throwing accuracy last year, especially on the deep balls to Malone, and I do believe he's helped his draft stock considerably. I thought coming into the season/early in the season that he'd be a 6th or 7th rd pick or an UFA, and now I think he's got a chance to go in the 4th rd or so. I hope for his sake that the Browns don't reach for him earlier as I think that would be a disaster for Josh. I believe he needs to go to a stable situation where he can sit behind a successful, solid starter and not be pushed into service early. Jmo.

One thing I do regret while debating with you about Dobbs is that by doing so, Josh became the pawn and it could've appeared that Josh was indeed being disparaged.....when in fact, I was only trying to argue for what Josh actually was as a player at Tennessee....a great kid, an outstanding athletic playmaker who struggled at times with his decision making and passing accuracy, but who could also be clutch and put the team on his back at times (2014 SCar, 2015 UGA, 2016 UF) which I think is what virtually everybody saw in Joshua besides you. Kid was a great player and winner at Tennessee and will be missed greatly here....whether he gets drafted in the first round or never takes an NFL snap.
 
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#87
#87
Pump Guy said:
Way too many people on this board that understand and research this stuff more than I do. But with the way the NFL has been trending, I just don't see Kamara getting picked until the third round. I hope I am wrong, yet the past decade, unless it is a generational talent, running backs seem to be disposable commodities.
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He will be drafted High second, late second at latest. No way he goes down to the 3rd round.
 
#88
#88
KBVol said:
The point is Hurd was your guy and you constantly had Alvin playing second fiddle to him. You consistently argued with anyone who said Alvin should have a more prominent role in the offense while screaming from the mountaintops that Hurd was the best RB in the country.....while plenty of us could see he wasn't even the best RB on his own team.

As far as your predictions for yards and tds for AK, neither I nor anybody else even took them serious, I doubt you did either.....just more hyperbolic rubbish from you, as usual. And while you did have AK running for 1,000 yards, you still had Hurd running for 1,600 or 1,800 yards, depending on the day you made your prediction. (Of course we know that was just you hedging). Btw, you were slightly off on both. Lol.

And no I wasn't calling AK a first round pick back then...he'll, I'm not doing it now, that's your schtick, not mine. I hope he's the first pick in the draft, but suspect he'll go late 1st or early 2nd, but I'm certainly not foolishly declaring or proclaiming it....again, that's your role.

I didn't diss Hurd. I said many times that if Jones wants to keep Hurd as his feature back then fine, let him be the workhorse, but that the ratio should NEVER BE 29 touches for Hurd, 6-7 for Kamara, and that that's foolish and hurts the team. I advocated for 20-22 touches for Jalen and never less than 14-15 for AK. Suggested that the touches come from Dobbs even, to help keep him healthy.

I have never "hated" on Jalen, just honestly said what I saw......a big back with decent speed, poor burst, poor open field vision, no breakaway ability and got tackled way, way too often for loss or no gain and by the first guy, especially if running parallel to the los. I also said he has outstanding hands, is great catching the ball out of the backfield and was very good in pass pro.....being involved in the passing game was his strength, not necessarily running the ball.

As far as Dobbs, you're wrong again, never said he wouldn't play in the NFL, just argued over and over again with you, like so many have, that he wasn't the best qb in the SEC and country and was by no means wasn't a 1st round pick and wasn't gonna win the heisman....all of which is true, except perhaps him being the best SEC QB last year, the last 4-5 games of the season anyway.

Also, I'll remind you again that I was here, defending Dobbs when he was a freshman, before you were even on VN. I argued with posters that he looked pretty good in his second half debut vs Alabama, was really good vs Missouri, his first start- he was literally the only guy who showed up that night, was our leading rusher and would've approached 300 yards passing had Josh Smith not dropped a perfectly thrown pass on a seam route that surely would been a touchdown- won the game vs Vandy with a TD run that was unfortunately called back due to a unecessary block in the back by Pig Howard and I argued that while he was listed a prostyle qb, that he had really shown good running ability by having a 30 yard run or better in 3 of the 5 games he played in (you'd be surprised how many posters argued with me that he couldn't run either).

I've only ever argued with you about Josh when you've made outlandish predictions and assessments, which was every day. I've been a fan of his from day one, love who he is as a young man and ambassador for Tennessee and have only ever expressed frustration with his actual play a handful of times, primarily in 2015, when he struggled making fairly routine plays.

Btw, he absolutely did improve throwing accuracy last year, especially on the deep balls to Malone, and I do believe he's helped his draft stock considerably. I thought coming into the season/early in the season that he'd be a 6th or 7th rd pick or an UFA, and now I think he's got a chance to go in the 4th rd or so. I hope for his sake that the Browns don't reach for him earlier as I think that would be a disaster for Josh. I believe he needs to go to a stable situation where he can sit behind a successful, solid starter and not be pushed into service early. Jmo.

One thing I do regret while debating with you about Dobbs is that by doing so, Josh became the pawn and it could've appeared that Josh was indeed being disparaged.....when in fact, I was only trying to argue for what Josh actually was as a player at Tennessee....a great kid, an outstanding athletic playmaker who struggled at times with his decision making and passing accuracy, but who could also be clutch and put the team on his back at times (2014 SCar, 2015 UGA, 2016 UF) which I think is what virtually everybody saw in Joshua besides you. Kid was a great player and winner at Tennessee and will be missed greatly here....whether he gets drafted in the first round or never takes an NFL snap.
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Be more concise. Nobody wants to read an essay.

1. I never said Alvin shouldn't be featured more. I always said he was the third best player on offense after Dobbs and Hurd. He deserved to be on the field more ALONGSIDE Hurd not to replace him. My only beef was with people like you that wanted to limit one player in favor of another. There was no reason why both couldn't be on the field together for every snap.

2. In 2015 Jalen was better than Alvin. Kamara improved in 2016 and given our playing style deserved more carries in 2016. But in 2015 Hurd was much better. Especially in the big games versus Florida and Alabama. I'm not changing my opinion about that. In 2015 Alvin only went off against the weak teams on our schedule. In his limited carries against Florida and Alabama he was totally ineffective. While Hurd played 2 of the best games in his career versus Florida and Alabama in 2015. In fact Hurd rushed for more yards against Alabama in 2015 than Fournette.

3. You can pretend all you want right now that you like Dobbs but you were dissing him at every turn. Saying he wasn't a good passer and was not an NFL QB. You can pretend all you want right now but I'm sure if Dobbs was on VN reading those threads where we debated him, he wouldn't like you at all. He would think you were a hater who disliked him since all you ever did was belittle his accomplishments.
 
#89
#89
Just saw mock draft, has Derek Barnett 16th pick 1st round, Kamara in 2nd, Cam Sutton in 3rd, Josh Malone in 4th, Josh Dobbs in 6th (Browns)

-Jimmy Hyams
 
#90
#90
Josh Malone will have the best pro carrier of this Tennessee draft class. hes smooth rout running and electric speed is something special. I have been saying this all year...im just not as load as D4H. I do think Kamara is a special player but RBs are just not as valuable as WRs in today's game.regardless i hope each and every player has a great pro carriers including Hurd
 
#91
#91
uF9MjJo3QIaijySXC4iL_Confused%20Christian%20Bale.gif
 
#92
#92
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Here are my top 10 prospects in the 2017 NFL Draft:

1. DE Myles Garrett (Texas A&M)
2. DL Solomon Thomas (Stanford)
3. WR Corey Davis (Western Michigan)
4. CB Cameron Sutton (Tennessee)
5. RB Alvin Kamara (Tennessee)
6. TE David Njoku (Miami)
7. QB Josh Dobbs (Tennessee)
8. CB Ahkello Witherspoon (Colorado)
9. TE Evan Engram (Ole Miss)
10. RB Joe Mixon (Oklahoma) and QB Brad Kaaya (Miami) - tie

I have Alvin Kamara rated as my 5th overall prospect, so if the Bills take him 10th overall it will be a STEAL.
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3 UT guys in the top ten??? Purple murple??:birgits_giggle:
 
#94
#94
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Yes. We had amazing top end talent the last couple of years. We just lacked proper depth along the offensive and defensive lines.
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We had good top end talent, not elite outside of Barnett. Agree we lacked good, quality depth, pretty much everywhere.
 
#96
#96
KBVol said:
We had good top end talent, not elite outside of Barnett. Agree we lacked good, quality depth, pretty much everywhere.
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Elite in what sense? College stats? Sure Barnett was awesome at accumulating stats.

But in terms of TALENT he pales when compared to Dobbs, Kamara, and Sutton. All 3 have significantly higher ceilings as professionals.
 
#97
#97
BigOrangeTrain said:
Amazing talent? No not really. I would say very good talent. Barnett is the only one that fits the amazing category.
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I guess you wouldn't think Tom Brady was an amazing talent in 2000 but David Terrell was?

College is not the NFL. I could care less about college stats. NFL is a different beast.

Dobbs, Kamara, and Sutton are amazing NFL talents. Barnett is just a good NFL talent.
 
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