Reasons to be negative about the 2017 season

#127
#127
VolinMC said:
I get what Jake is saying. The situation in the administration caused by hiring Currie has made it harder for him to fire Butch after a 6-6/4-4 season. He has to get most of the boosters and people that don't like him on his side first to do that. Just not enough time in 9 months. At least that's what I understand.
I also get what you other guys are saying also,he needs/should be fired if there is no improvement in wins or win the East. I see that also.
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Yes in a nutshell
 
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#128
#128
VolinMC said:
I get what Jake is saying. The situation in the administration caused by hiring Currie has made it harder for him to fire Butch after a 6-6/4-4 season. He has to get most of the boosters and people that don't like him on his side first to do that. Just not enough time in 9 months. At least that's what I understand.
I also get what you other guys are saying also,he needs/should be fired if there is no improvement in wins or win the East. I see that also.
In my opinion,Jake may be on to something. Unless the bottom falls out,losing 7 or more games or finishing 6th or 7th place in the division,the AD mayhave trouble replacing him.
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Losing changes attitudes faster than winning does. At this point in the spring before Fulmer was fired... he seemed safe and on his way to restoring the program.

IMHO, the impact of the AD on the major dept decisions is probably overestimated a little.... and particularly when it comes to hiring/firing a football coach. They may do the leg work and make a recommendation but Big Money makes the final call. It is like that at most top schools. If Jones goes or stays, I don't think it will be because of the AD. It will be because the big money boosters get in the ears of UT's leaders including the AD and above.
 
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#129
#129
jakez4ut said:
yes, i do. and the record, at this point in time, has very little to do with it, barring some ridiculous 3 or 4 win season where the wheels completely fall off or theres' some ridiculous scandal that comes out that rocks the football program making it impossible for them not to fire him.
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So basically, you think the AD will wait until Butch has literally sunk the football program into a mire of mediocrity, to the point of breaking a historical losing record before he will be judged unfit to continue to be the HC? You don't think that Currie, with his years of AD experience is smart enough to look at the situation, the existing trends displayed, and preemptively make a coaching change prior to the entire football program imploding?

jakez4ut said:
option 1, until there's an option 2, is to keep Butch Jones. there's zero chance Currie is going to step in to his office in april on day 1 with the notion that Butch Jones is going to have an ultimatum to deal with for the 2017 season.
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This is not the Dooley situation. Firing CBJ, after five seasons, and him having an 18-22 or 17-23 SEC record over those five seasons, is normal. Better coaches, have been fired while having better records. Keeping Butch Jones on staff for another year, and allowing recruiting to take a massive hit, is just going to make it harder to get the coach you want after another disappointing season in 2018.

jakez4ut said:
and that reality has zero to do with what i think about CBJ and what should have already happened. it has everything to do with the administrative situation this program has been in the past year, and will be in for at least the next year.
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That's pure speculation. You nor I have any clue as to how much leeway Currie has at the moment, but most people in college athletics don't get paid a million dollars a year to be grinning fools and avoid making hard decisions. CBJ's record speaks for itself. Given what we've seen in 4 seasons, we'll more than likely never even really challenge for the SECe much less the SEC itself as long as he is the head coach.

jakez4ut said:
you're still operating off some notion that there's this mythical standard of competition that's dictating these decisions. and there very well maybe...in the future. but right now....un uh. Currie would have to take office day 1 almost with the intent of firing CBJ. and that's not happening either.
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You mean the "mythical standard" of being a contender in the conference ? Something that UT was for over a hundred years, prior to the hiring of Derek Dooley and Butch Jones? Yeah I do operate on the standard that the expectation at the University of Tennessee is that the football program will be competitive as an SEC contender, and not a middling team that's content to play in a Music City/Liberty/Belk bowl every year.
 
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#130
#130
sjt18 said:
Losing changes attitudes faster than winning does. At this point in the spring before Fulmer was fired... he seemed safe and on his way to restoring the program.

IMHO, the impact of the AD on the major dept decisions is probably overestimated a little.... and particularly when it comes to hiring/firing a football coach. They may do the leg work and make a recommendation but Big Money makes the final call. It is like that at most top schools. If Jones goes or stays, I don't think it will be because of the AD. It will be because the big money boosters get in the ears of UT's leaders including the AD and above.
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You may be right,I don't know much about administration stuff. I have read that they are not getting along right now and some have maybe walked away. If we lose bad enough,sure they may come together but this is UT we are talking about.
 
#131
#131
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Miss State went to a bowl at 5-7. So technically you don't have to break even. I hate to give fuel to this thread with such a bad name but I think we are down to the last 1-2 seasons in Jones's tenure barring a miracle. I agree with Jake's post in principle although I think it's clear that we could easily go into Fall 2018 with Holly, Butch, and Barnes all on in a legitimate do or die hot seat situation. Do the major boosters and the AD really want to put themselves in that position? Probably not. Barnes probably has the best chance for a major turnaround and firing Holly will generate the most blowback. The way I read the stars, Butch better win the East this year.
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Which one of those coaches is heading the program that brings in the most money, and stands to suffer the most if it continues on a downward trend?
 
#132
#132
I personally don't understand why we had to start a thread on this. All anyone has to do is open any of the other football threads and there are plenty of people on there that will tell you what's wrong with the program no matter if that's how it started or not. Continually dissing the program is all some do. JMO
 
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#133
#133
volunator said:
I personally don't understand why we had to start a thread on this. All anyone has to do is open any of the other football threads and there are plenty of people on there that will tell you what's wrong with the program no matter if that's how it started or not. Continually dissing the program is all some do. JMO
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I personally don't know why people who don't like this thread opened it....
 
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#136
#136
BeardedVol said:
So basically, you think the AD will wait until Butch has literally sunk the football program into a mire of mediocrity, to the point of breaking a historical losing record before he will be judged unfit to continue to be the HC? You don't think that Currie, with his years of AD experience is smart enough to look at the situation, the existing trends displayed, and preemptively make a coaching change prior to the entire football program imploding?



This is not the Dooley situation. Firing CBJ, after five seasons, and him having an 18-22 or 17-23 SEC record over those five seasons, is normal. Better coaches, have been fired while having better records. Keeping Butch Jones on staff for another year, and allowing recruiting to take a massive hit, is just going to make it harder to get the coach you want after another disappointing season in 2018.



That's pure speculation. You nor I have any clue as to how much leeway Currie has at the moment, but most people in college athletics don't get paid a million dollars a year to be grinning fools and avoid making hard decisions. CBJ's record speaks for itself. Given what we've seen in 4 seasons, we'll more than likely never even really challenge for the SECe much less the SEC itself as long as he is the head coach.



You mean the "mythical standard" of being a contender in the conference ? Something that UT was for over a hundred years, prior to the hiring of Derek Dooley and Butch Jones? Yeah I do operate on the standard that the expectation at the University of Tennessee is that the football program will be competitive as an SEC contender, and not a middling team that's content to play in a Music City/Liberty/Belk bowl every year.
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You're still missing my entire point.
 
#137
#137
sjt18 said:
Losing changes attitudes faster than winning does. At this point in the spring before Fulmer was fired... he seemed safe and on his way to restoring the program.

IMHO, the impact of the AD on the major dept decisions is probably overestimated a little.... and particularly when it comes to hiring/firing a football coach. They may do the leg work and make a recommendation but Big Money makes the final call. It is like that at most top schools. If Jones goes or stays, I don't think it will be because of the AD. It will be because the big money boosters get in the ears of UT's leaders including the AD and above.
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Good point.
 
#138
#138
Never a reason to be negative about the season, should be concerns. Being negative never helped anybody get better or help anything, be concerned not negative. GBO!!!
 
#140
#140
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Not sure why you brought AL up when our crazy adopted gator was talking about two other teams. Guess it was my Tatum reference? Anyways, It's not just him, so many guys were playing different positions towards the end just to fill in holes.


But since AL was brought up, 123 other teams aren't staying close to those guys either.
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Because you were the one who brought it up. Plain and simple.
 
#146
#146
BeardedVol said:
You have beautiful dreams.
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Call it what you want, but your unrealistic. Heres a quote from an article after the Vandy game.

Should Tennessee fire Jones? Not a chance. UT’s athletic department would owe him and his staff more than $10 million. Tennessee only recently improved its financial standing. This isn’t the time to go back in the hole.
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That buyout amount mentioned is almost 10.7 million before the new 8 coaching hires. Is it higher with the new coaches/contracts?

Back to the 8 new coaches. No way they give the new coaches only 9 months and then clean house. You do that and Tennessee would be hard pressed to bring in a high school coach that would want to work here.

The upcoming recruiting class has the pieces for Butch to have his best recruiting class ever at UT with 14 4* kids in-state alone.

Not going anywhere but keep on typing.
 
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#147
#147
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Call it what you want, but your unrealistic. Heres a quote from an article after the Vandy game.



That buyout amount mentioned is almost 10.7 million before the new 8 coaching hires. Is it higher with the new coaches/contracts?

Back to the 8 new coaches. No way they give the new coaches only 9 months and then clean house. You do that and Tennessee would be hard pressed to bring in a high school coach that would want to work here.

The upcoming recruiting class has the pieces for Butch to have his best recruiting class ever at UT with 14 4* kids in-state alone.

Not going anywhere but keep on typing.
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It's amazing how some people who hope Tennessee fails (Negavols) get so blind to things like this. It's like talking to a bunch of country bumpkins.
 
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#148
#148
Coachmike17 said:
It's amazing how some people who hope Tennessee fails (Negavols) get so blind to things like this. It's like talking to a bunch of country bumpkins.
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What's amazing is the buyouts universities agree to.
I get "the market" for proven championship P5 coaches but the deals made for 8 win seasons including the cupcakes, astounds me.

That's not a shot against Jones, I'm talking all universities and coaches.

I know it won't happen but I would love to see performance based deals for that magnitude of money, make a return. You know, like the rest of us have to do... produce impressive results and poor results worthy of being fired, aren't rewarded.
 
#150
#150
chargervol said:
What's amazing is the buyouts universities agree to.
I get "the market" for proven championship P5 coaches but the deals made for 8 win seasons including the cupcakes, astounds me.

That's not a shot against Jones, I'm talking all universities and coaches.

I know it won't happen but I would love to see performance based deals for that magnitude of money, make a return. You know, like the rest of us have to do... produce impressive results and poor results worthy of being fired, aren't rewarded.
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I posted something like this a while back but got burned. I think it would be a good idea to write incentives into contracts. Say if Butch has a 6 million salary, he gets 2 just for finishing the season, an extra 2 for winning the East, and an extra 2 for winning the SEC or something along those lines. If he doesn't accomplish the goals, he only gets 2 million for the season.
 
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