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#101
#101
volprof said:
At the moment, only the rights of "others" are being discussed. If given enough time - thankfully, he will not be - ours will be discussed as well.

Right now, he's attacking the media in an attempt to delegitimize it so he can do what he thinks he needs to do later. The media is the greatest "check and balance" we have, as it often forces even congress's hand.

Every would-be authoritarian does this first. It's exactly how Putin came to power.

No authoritarian comes right out the gate whipping everyone and taking all their rights. He has to lay the groundwork first. We're still in the groundwork stage, and, luckily, that's were it will most likely end.

But more Trumps will come along.
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The media has delegitimized themselves and so far all Trump has done is point that out.

What are these rights of others being taken away, a little specificity would help.
 
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#102
#102
volprof said:
At the moment, only the rights of "others" are being discussed. If given enough time - thankfully, he will not be - ours will be discussed as well.

Right now, he's attacking the media in an attempt to delegitimize it so he can do what he thinks he needs to do later. The media is the greatest "check and balance" we have, as it often forces even congress's hand.

Every would-be authoritarian does this first. It's exactly how Putin came to power.

No authoritarian comes right out the gate whipping everyone and taking all their rights. He has to lay the groundwork first. We're still in the groundwork stage, and, luckily, that's were it will most likely end.

But more Trumps will come along.
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He's not changing anyone's mind about the media. I think most people recognize that the media tend to be left of center. But his constituents are so far right, that they have a distorted view of where the center is, naturally resulting in them thinking that a little left of center is WAY left of center.

Nothing Trump says is novel to them in that regard.

And I don't think he is converting anyone else to his point of view about the media.

He doesn't care that he frustrates everyone else in the process. He's championing a point of view that got him to the WH, and the reality has already been sacrificed to the views of the people that really support him, especially enough to spend their Saturday on an airport tarmac.
 
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#104
#104
volprof said:
I think the most amazing thing about the Trump presidency (besides the whole Kremlin thing, you know, that ole' chestnut) is that we're being provided the opportunity to watch - here in America, mind you - how authoritarian cults are formed and how simple it is for people to hand their rights and the rights of others away, even the ones who we formally thought were "strict contitutionalists."

Luckily, Trump will end up undoing himself and already has, so we will be spared. But only for a time. We've seen how easy it is now. We've been forewarned.
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Which rights have been handed away?
 
#105
#105
tumscalcium said:
It could be. The ability to turn millions of adults into toddlers throwing temper tantrums is impressive as well.
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I know, a lot of folks can't seem to handle any criticism of our new president. They do all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain away every mistake he makes and then whine and complain about anyone who dares to offer legitimate criticism.
 
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#106
#106
hog88 said:
The media has delegitimized themselves and so far all Trump has done is point that out.

What are these rights of others being taken away, a little specificity would help.
Click to expand...

The travel ban was the initial attempt, which, as you will recall, also targeted dual-citizens, not just refugees. (Evidently, he has now revised this in his new plan, but whatever. The real Trump was revealed.)

There's been discussion since the primaries about removing the 14th Amendment, odd given that Donny himself is an "anchor baby."

Also, he's already pressured cities and states into doing federal-bidding regarding immigration policies, something that becomes a bit fuzzy in a federal system.

This is just one month in. Like I said, an authoritarian doesn't just come out right away swinging for the fences. He has to build to get there.

In time, without congressional check, he will likely seek a narrow definition of citizenship, will seek the end of Roe v. Wade (hello rising debt), will pressure states and cities into doing his bidding even more, limit press rights, etc. etc.

If you can't see any of this and think it's just "screeching," then I can't help you.
 
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#107
#107
lawgator1 said:
He's not changing anyone's mind about the media. I think most people recognize that the media tend to be left of center. But his constituents are so far right, that they have a distorted view of where the center is, naturally resulting in them thinking that a little left of center is WAY left of center.

Nothing Trump says is novel to them in that regard.

And I don't think he is converting anyone else to his point of view about the media.

He doesn't care that he frustrates everyone else in the process. He's championing a point of view that got him to the WH, and the reality has already been sacrificed to the views of the people that really support him, especially enough to spend their Saturday on an airport tarmac.
Click to expand...
There's no doubt that his rhetoric is too much. But his constituents aren't hyperconservative partisans. They're disaffected due to a weak economy and an unprecedented pull to the left and they're tired of being told that everything is ok. It's a Populist reaction; not a conservative one.
 
#108
#108
GAVol said:
There's no doubt that his rhetoric is too much. But his constituents aren't hyperconservative partisans. They're disaffected due to a weak economy and an unprecedented pull to the left and they're tired of being told that everything is ok. It's a Populist reaction; not a conservative one.
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Exactly the population most vulnerable to an authoritarian, and, therein, lies part of my point.
 
#109
#109
flatiron said:
I know, a lot of folks can't seem to handle any criticism of our new president. They do all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain away every mistake he makes and then whine and complain about anyone who dares to offer legitimate criticism.
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Legitimate criticism is great and acceptable.

Throwing temper tantrums is hilarious and takes away everything you're trying to say.
 
#110
#110
Most everyone has accepted the fact that Trump will continually make stupid and false statements.

The bigger issue here is the efforts of Trump and the right wing media to bombard us with every piece of negative news possible to demonize Muslim immigrants and increase the level of fear. We are being brainwashed / propagandized for a reason. Every time you see or hear news that demonizes the Muslim immigrant you need to take a step back and think.....you are being conditioned to hate and fear. If you hate and fear, then you're easy to manipulate and control.
 
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#111
#111
volprof said:
Exactly the population most vulnerable to an authoritarian, and, therein, lies part of my point.
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We've seen this before. It's similar to FDR after the Great depression and Reagan after the high interest rates and energy crisis.
 
#112
#112
GAVol said:
There's no doubt that his rhetoric is too much. But his constituents aren't hyperconservative partisans. They're disaffected due to a weak economy and an unprecedented pull to the left and they're tired of being told that everything is ok. It's a Populist reaction; not a conservative one.
Click to expand...


I don't disagree except that I'm not sure that they are as populist as you might believe. I think they are disaffected because they do not feel that people that look and think like them have been a priority. They feel neglected by Washington. I don't think they are out for the "everyman." They are out for themselves, and just feel like they've been shut out for awhile, with a guy like Obama as the ultimate symbol of their loss of control.
 
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#113
#113
luthervol said:
Most everyone has accepted the fact that Trump will continually make stupid and false statements.

The bigger issue here is the efforts of Trump and the right wing media to bombard us with every piece of negative news possible to demonize Muslim immigrants and increase the level of fear. We are being brainwashed / propagandized for a reason. Every time you see or hear news that demonizes the Muslim immigrant you need to take a step back and think.....you are being conditioned to hate and fear. If you hate and fear, then you're easy to manipulate and control.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you hate and fear Trump and right wing Media.
 
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#114
#114
luthervol said:
Most everyone has accepted the fact that Trump will continually make stupid and false statements.

The bigger issue here is the efforts of Trump and the right wing media to bombard us with every piece of negative news possible to demonize Muslim immigrants and increase the level of fear. We are being brainwashed / propagandized for a reason. Every time you see or hear news that demonizes the Muslim immigrant you need to take a step back and think.....you are being conditioned to hate and fear. If you hate and fear, then you're easy to manipulate and control.
Click to expand...
Agenda driven media didn't just start yesterday.
 
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#115
#115
luthervol said:
Most everyone has accepted the fact that Trump will continually make stupid and false statements.

The bigger issue here is the efforts of Trump and the right wing media to bombard us with every piece of negative news possible to demonize Muslim immigrants and increase the level of fear. We are being brainwashed / propagandized for a reason. Every time you see or hear news that demonizes the Muslim immigrant you need to take a step back and think.....you are being conditioned to hate and fear. If you hate and fear, then you're easy to manipulate and control.
Click to expand...

You realize you're conditioning yourself in the same manner you're preaching against. Right? Did you know that?
 
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#116
#116
lawgator1 said:
I don't disagree except that I'm not sure that they are as populist as you might believe. I think they are disaffected because they do not feel that people that look and think like them have been a priority. They feel neglected by Washington. I don't think they are out for the "everyman." They are out for themselves, and just feel like they've been shut out for awhile, with a guy like Obama as the ultimate symbol of their loss of control.
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I think you're right and wrong. They feel shut out and ignored, but it's unfair to dismiss them as racists. We've just come out of 8 years of weak recovery and the most liberal administration/congressional leadership of my lifetime. Sure, maybe done of them are driven by xenophobia, but a lot of them are just sick and tired.
 
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#117
#117
GAVol said:
Agenda driven media didn't just start yesterday.
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Of course not, but access to and amount of media outlets today is unprecedented. Think of the media sources 80 years ago, 40 years ago, today - if Trump can delegitimize reliable news sources, what's left?
 
#118
#118
1972 Grad said:
Sounds like you hate and fear Trump and right wing Media.
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I don't hate Trump - yet. In fact, I consider him more of a puppet than anything - I fear some of the people pulling his strings. I certainly do hate and fear the right wing media.
 
#120
#120
volprof said:
The travel ban was the initial attempt, which, as you will recall, also targeted dual-citizens, not just refugees. (Evidently, he has now revised this in his new plan, but whatever. The real Trump was revealed.)

There's been discussion since the primaries about removing the 14th Amendment, odd given that Donny himself is an "anchor baby."

Also, he's already pressured cities and states into doing federal-bidding regarding immigration policies, something that becomes a bit fuzzy in a federal system.

This is just one month in. Like I said, an authoritarian doesn't just come out right away swinging for the fences. He has to build to get there.

In time, without congressional check, he will likely seek a narrow definition of citizenship, will seek the end of Roe v. Wade (hello rising debt), will pressure states and cities into doing his bidding even more, limit press rights, etc. etc.

If you can't see any of this and think it's just "screeching," then I can't help you.
Click to expand...

I'll grant you that the wording and implementation of the travel ban was ill-conceived. No excuse or defense for the initial EO.

I'm 100% in favor of changing the 14th amendment to require at least 1 parent be a citizen before a child born here is granted birth-right citizenship. Citizenship rules have changed over the years so there is nothing Un-American about making other changes.

Cities and States were not granted oversight of immigration from the constitution so they absolutely should be following federal law. Boy howdy would there be a ruckus if a state or city decided they weren't going to follow the federal firearms laws.

I doubt Trump touches Roe and there is no way he can limit press rights, come back on over to reality for a bit.
 
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#122
#122
hog88 said:
I'll grant you that the wording and implementation of the travel ban was ill-conceived. No excuse or defense for the initial EO.

I'm 100% in favor of changing the 14th amendment to require at least 1 parent be a citizen before a child born here is granted birth-right citizenship. Citizenship rules have changed over the years so there is nothing Un-American about making other changes.

Cities and States were not granted oversight of immigration from the constitution so they absolutely should be following federal law. Boy howdy would there be a ruckus if a state or city decided they weren't going to follow the federal firearms laws.

I doubt Trump touches Roe and there is no way he can limit press rights, come back on over to reality for a bit.
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With a willing congress, he can absolutely make an attempt at limiting the press. The SC may hold them up, but they can certainly make the attempt.

Luckily, as more comes to light - finally - with Kremlingate, more and more Republican congressmen and women will hop off the Trump train by the day. So, I will grant that the attempt to curtail the press will most likely never see the light of day as a result.
 
#124
#124
Liberal lunacy abounds each day Trump is President.

Presidents Day Protests are going on today in America.....that's a shocker for sure.
 
#125
#125
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