UC Berkley Riot

#277
#277
davethevol said:
I read that at least one state is looking at passing a law protecting drivers that run over protesters blocking traffic. They should pass something like that nationwide. Protesters blocked an ambulance on a highway in New Haven, Connecticut the other night and refused to move.
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That would be amazing. I would definitely be in favor of passing a law that puts people in jail for 2 weeks if you protest on an interstate or highway.
 
#281
#281
volinbham said:
So if protestors prevent a speaker from speaking and/or from people attending an event that is not stifling free speech?

Interesting view you have there
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he probably views them as do-gooders who had to use extreme measures to stop the nazi-fascist regime
 
#282
#282
theFallGuy said:
he probably views them as do-gooders who had to use extreme measures to stop the nazi-fascist regime
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If sammy was to speak at a college nobody would show up. No burning or riots to break out....he's not that important. So he has all the "free speech" he wants at an empty event.
 
#283
#283
volinbham said:
So if protestors prevent a speaker from speaking and/or from people attending an event that is not stifling free speech?

Interesting view you have there
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It's interpreted as:

Interrupt conservative speaker = not infringing on First Amendment

Interrupt liberal speaker = highly wrong and we're gonna riot about our Rights
 
#284
#284
Wm. Buckley who said it best;*
"A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view, but then is surprised & offended to find there actually ARE other points of view."
 
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#285
#285
UT_Dutchman said:
Wm. Buckley who said it best;*
"A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view, but then is surprised & offended to find there actually ARE other points of view."
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Another good one - "A liberal is a person so open-minded their brain has fallen out."

I don't even think that liberals, especially today's ones, are all that open-minded (it plays on a stereotype of them), but the quote is still funny.
 
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#286
#286
Protestors can't violate someone's First Amendment rights, unless they (the protestors) are actual representatives of the government.

If they could, then it would also open up religious and other private institutions for barring free speech whenever they try to stop someone from saying something on their property or in a sponsored-event that conflicts with their values. Would mean that all churches, for instance, would have to recognize pro-choice advocates at church meetings, if any pro-choice advocates wanted to speak.
 
#287
#287
volprof said:
Protestors can't violate someone's First Amendment rights, unless they (the protestors) are actual representatives of the government.

If they could, then it would also open up religious and other private institutions for barring free speech whenever they try to stop someone from saying something on their property or in a sponsored-event that conflicts with their values. Would mean that all churches, for instance, would have to recognize pro-choice advocates at church meetings, if any pro-choice advocates wanted to speak.
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You are correct - they more accurately violated UC Berkeley's right to allow whoever they want to speak on campus.

They didn't violate Milo's First Amendment rights technically, but the end result of their riot was the prevention of an opinion they didn't like being aired.
 
#288
#288
05_never_again said:
You are correct - they more accurately violated UC Berkeley's right to allow whoever they want to speak on campus.

They didn't violate Milo's First Amendment rights technically, but the end result of their riot was the prevention of an opinion they didn't like being aired.
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If the roles were reversed and a riotous crowd threw rocks and fireworks at cops protecting a Jesse Jackson speech you can guarantee the narrative would be different. It would be oppression of free speech and civil rights, as well as racism and whatever else. It would be a national calamity and not just frustrated citizens speaking their minds against someone they don't agree with.
 
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#289
#289
05_never_again said:
You are correct - they more accurately violated UC Berkeley's right to allow whoever they want to speak on campus.

They didn't violate Milo's First Amendment rights technically, but the end result of their riot was the prevention of an opinion they didn't like being aired.
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Indeed.

Personally, I wish all of these college students nationwide would just grill objectionable speakers during the Q & A. Would be far less hypocritical and would also lead to some very compromising and awkward moments for objectionable speakers when they simply can't account reasonably for a question.
 
#290
#290
First Amendment rights and free speech infringement are not the same thing. What the protesters did at Berkeley definitely stifled free speech but it was not a First Amendment violation.
 
#291
#291
I like the left's new tactic, "those Berkeley protesters sure were well equipped and organized, they must have been right-wing militia members deliberately making the actual, peaceful protest look violent."
 
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#292
#292
volprof said:
Indeed.

Personally, I wish all of these college students nationwide would just grill objectionable speakers during the Q & A. Would be far less hypocritical and would also lead to some very compromising and awkward moments for objectionable speakers when they simply can't account reasonably for a question.
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that would also require the students to actually know what they are protesting. Too much risk of looking the fool in that situation.

as a recent college grad with family still in college I can say most of these protesters are there because someone told them they should be offended by "X". without knowing the real reasons behind it or looking into it.
 
#293
#293
DancingOutlaw said:
If the roles were reversed and a riotous crowd threw rocks and fireworks at cops protecting a Jesse Jackson speech you can guarantee the narrative would be different. It would be oppression of free speech and civil rights, as well as racism and whatever else. It would be a national calamity and not just frustrated citizens speaking their minds against someone they don't agree with.
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Totally agree with you.
 
#294
#294
volinbham said:
First Amendment rights and free speech infringement are not the same thing. What the protesters did at Berkeley definitely stifled free speech but it was not a First Amendment violation.
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I think you are using semantics. I outlined a scenario the other day to LG.

Stifling free speech and assembly, even if it is private citizens, is a violation of the 1st Amendment. And moreover, being that a State institution (Employees on a government provided paycheck at these universities) allows it to happen is a violation of said free assembly.

LG said it hasn't been tried in court. I'd like to see how it ended up personally.
 
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#296
#296
volinbham said:
So if protestors prevent a speaker from speaking and/or from people attending an event that is not stifling free speech?

Interesting view you have there
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The point that Trump and Conway and their ilk miss is that freedom of speech is not the same as freedom from dissent. Milo Yiannopoulos is a basically an Internet troll who hit the big time, and he cares more about the attention that his bigoted remarks earn him than actually engaging in legitimate, constructive debates over policy or ideology. (I mean, Yiannopoulos was permanently banned from Twitter after organizing a campaign of racist, sexist harassment against Leslie Jones. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get banned from Twitter for being racist and sexist?!)

Nonetheless, he is perfectly within his rights to hold whatever deplorable or non-deplorable views he likes. Freedom of speech often isn't fun, but that's how it works.

1500 protesters turned out to make clear that his brand of vapid, bigoted bull**** was unwelcome in the university community. This was very, very good. Unfortunately, these vibes were ruined by the arrival of an estimated 150 Black Bloc provocateurs, who showed up on campus to start fires, break windows, throw rocks and fireworks at police, and generally ruin everyone's good time. This was very, very bad.

At the same time, though, other private citizens are perfectly within their rights to show up where Yiannopoulos intends to spew his vile hate speech nonsense and, through nonviolent means, shut that **** down. Yes, Cal is a public university, and it boasts a proud tradition of supporting freedom of expression. But the administration didn't bar him from campus—it was student protests that did it. Despite their fondest victimhood fantasies, when Yiannopoulos and Trump and Conway and company are met with thousands of protesters telling them to go to hell, no one's "free speech rights" are being trampled. This is just the free market of ideas responding loud and clear, and if they don't like the reactions their views elicit, they have no one to blame but themselves.
 
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#297
#297
sammyhagar said:
The point that Trump and Conway and their ilk miss is that freedom of speech is not the same as freedom from dissent. Milo Yiannopoulos is a basically an Internet troll who hit the big time, and he cares more about the attention that his bigoted remarks earn him than actually engaging in legitimate, constructive debates over policy or ideology. (I mean, Yiannopoulos was permanently banned from Twitter after organizing a campaign of racist, sexist harassment against Leslie Jones. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get banned from Twitter for being racist and sexist?!)

Nonetheless, he is perfectly within his rights to hold whatever deplorable or non-deplorable views he likes. Freedom of speech often isn't fun, but that's how it works.

1500 protesters turned out to make clear that his brand of vapid, bigoted bull**** was unwelcome in the university community. This was very, very good. Unfortunately, these vibes were ruined by the arrival of an estimated 150 Black Bloc provocateurs, who showed up on campus to start fires, break windows, throw rocks and fireworks at police, and generally ruin everyone's good time. This was very, very bad.

At the same time, though, other private citizens are perfectly within their rights to show up where Yiannopoulos intends to spew his vile hate speech nonsense and, through nonviolent means, shut that **** down. Yes, Cal is a public university, and it boasts a proud tradition of supporting freedom of expression. But the administration didn't bar him from campus—it was student protests that did it. Despite their fondest victimhood fantasies, when Yiannopoulos and Trump and Conway and company are met with thousands of protesters telling them to go to hell, no one's "free speech rights" are being trampled. This is just the free market of ideas responding loud and clear, and if they don't like the reactions their views elicit, they have no one to blame but themselves.
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Since when does the free market of ideas include physical restraint mixed with violence and threats of violence.

A very small minority of students forced the cancellation of a free speech event by using physical force. That is not the free market of ideas.

For reference, the free market of ideas would be no one showing up for the event.
 
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#299
#299
volinbham said:
Since when does the free market of ideas include physical restraint mixed with violence and threats of violence.

A very small minority of students forced the cancellation of a free speech event by using physical force. That is not the free market of ideas.

For reference, the free market of ideas would be no one showing up for the event.
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Liberals dont consent to others rights. Its their way or the highway. You must think like them or face violence. Their group think is dangerous
 
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