I think we are better

#126
#126
bamawriter said:
I don't get why you keep saying this. Butch Jones has never coached a team that has run a traditional pro-style offense. What makes you think he's suddenly going to change the scheme he's utilized his entire career?
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Well, beyond stating the obvious in the previous post. PEYTON *****.
 
#127
#127
IluvdoubleD's said:
Guys we could put 11 receivers on the field and just wear folks out all game long. Plus Rbacks, plus ENORMOUS TEs. Also got to understand most of these kids are just starting to physically develop. Pretty eye popping. the script has flipped for UT. We are going be an electrifying pro offense. No more high school hi jinx.
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Good Lord... you weren't being facetious, were you?
 
#129
#129
IluvdoubleD's said:
Well, beyond stating the obvious in the previous post. PEYTON *****.
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doesnt_make_any_sense_anchorman.gif
 
#131
#131
IluvdoubleD's said:
That's actually a good observation I'll take to heart. How come we only saw a hand full of receivers and we had half the depth? Could it be because we were dinking around with cosmonaught that could run at QB?
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Could be because most of the names on that list weren't SEC caliber WR's.... or the system is screwed up... or Jones has tolerated an incompetent WR coach for 4 years now. Take your pick.
 
#134
#134
Peyton retires and all of a sudden we look like a completely different team (one that looks exactly like his old teams by coincidence) after it's reported he has his hands all over the AD process.


Bring on the alien conspiracies. I believe.
 
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#135
#135
IluvdoubleD's said:
Peyton retires and all of a sudden we look like a completely different team (one that looks exactly like his old teams by coincidence) after it's reported he has his hands all over the AD process.


Bring on the alien conspiracies. I believe.
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By chance are you employed in the University of Tennessee public relations department?
 
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#137
#137
BeardedVol said:
Unfortunately, believing something doesn't make it true. Especially when you have 4 seasons of empirical evidence that greatly speak to the contrary.
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Hume's theory is interesting when it comes to causality and the problem of induction with empiricism. That is to say, 4 seasons may or may not be the effect of any cause still present or even present the last 4 years. With all the upgrades in coaches and the additions of new position coaches, I'm skeptical we'll do any worse than last year, so I think it's a reasonable hypothesis that we could be better this year until proven otherwise.
 
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#138
#138
OneVolNation said:
Hume's theory is interesting when it comes to causality and the problem of induction with empiricism. That is to say, 4 seasons may or may not be the effect of any cause still present or even present the last 4 years. With all the upgrades in coaches and the additions of new position coaches, I'm skeptical we'll do any worse than last year, so I think it's a reasonable hypothesis that we could be better this year until proven otherwise.
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Hume's concept of probable doesn't argue that inferences about the future, based of the past is unreasonable, but rather that those inferences don't derive from the proper function of reason. He was concerned more with how an argument was formed, rather than why or if it is was valid.

While your hypothesis is reasonable, I offer a counter to it. I'd argue that Scott promoted to OC, while may not be a negative, couldn't really be tossed into the positive category yet due to the fact that he has zero OC experience, and will be performing this role for the first time ever in the SEC. Warren in Martinez out, sure definitely an upgrade, but he still has limited talent to work with at DB. Rock on S&C, is an upgrade, but that impact may be the most nebulous of all given that we don't know how much S&C played into our injuries.

In my opinion the greatest factor that impacts next year at the moment, is the loss of experience and production due to attrition in 2016, the retention of inferior position coaches. Given that situation, the probability that we will do better in 2017, than we did in 2016, is not very high.
 
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#139
#139
Here the thing I look at, we all know about the injuries, and I'm still not happy about the SC and Vandy losses, SC I hate to say it but was probably the one game in his career we have to lay mainly on Dobbs shoulders, yes he contributed in some other losses but that was an extremely bad game. The Vandy game we still had some inexperienced guys playing and trying to play with injuries along with starters back but they were not 100 percent either,playing against a rather physical team, and in the end the injuries,inexperience,and youth that was not use to the SeC, and then ad in lack of second half adjustments and I think we just ran out of steam last year.IMHO
 
#140
#140
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneVolNation View Post
Hume's theory is interesting when it comes to causality and the problem of induction with empiricism. That is to say, 4 seasons may or may not be the effect of any cause still present or even present the last 4 years. With all the upgrades in coaches and the additions of new position coaches, I'm skeptical we'll do any worse than last year, so I think it's a reasonable hypothesis that we could be better this year until proven otherwise.

BeardedVol said:
Hume's concept of probable doesn't argue that inferences about the future, based of the past is unreasonable, but rather that those inferences don't derive from the proper function of reason. He was concerned more with how an argument was formed, rather than why or if it is was valid.

While your hypothesis is reasonable, I offer a counter to it. I'd argue that Scott promoted to OC, while may not be a negative, couldn't really be tossed into the positive category yet due to the fact that he has zero OC experience, and will be performing this role for the first time ever in the SEC. Warren in Martinez out, sure definitely an upgrade, but he still has limited talent to work with at DB. Rock on S&C, is an upgrade, but that impact may be the most nebulous of all given that we don't know how much S&C played into our injuries.

In my opinion the greatest factor that impacts next year at the moment, is the loss of experience and production due to attrition in 2016, the retention of inferior position coaches. Given that situation, the probability that we will do better in 2017, than we did in 2016, is not very high.
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DeBord performed for the first time ever (in a long time), and he did pretty well. Little reason yet to believe a guy his younger (with tons more visible enthusiasm for the game) won't do as well or better. We should be good here.

Lots of the experienced players (eg Sutton, Tuttle, etc) were out for some big games last year. Little reason yet to think that the guys who filled-in aren't now the experienced ones (and who knows -- one, or two, of these DE's might just be a tad quicker or longer reach than Barnett / just might fully-disrupt more of the BIG plays vs some of those many, many finger-tip misses Barnett had -- it's all relative).

The competition looks to be stronger this season, yet Shoop should be more able. Yes,

the probability we perform better is good-strong, imo. I am very positive at this moment for a good summer and strong Fall.
 
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#141
#141
UT-Rex said:
DeBord performed for the first time ever (in a long time), and he did pretty well. Little reason yet to believe a guy his younger (with tons more visible enthusiasm for the game) won't do as well or better. We should be good here.
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You are more than welcome to hold that opinion, but I'm willing to wager that there are few examples where "enthusiasm" was able to fill in for a deficiency of experience for a D1 offensive coordinator. Scott isn't just going to have to learn to OC at UT, he's literally going to be an OC, for the first time ever, and he's going to have to do it in the SEC. I'm not saying he's going to fail, but at the very least, he's going to make a fair number of mistakes considering the circumstances.

UT-Rex said:
Lots of the experienced players (eg Sutton, Tuttle, etc) were out for some big games last year. Little reason yet to think that the guys who filled-in aren't now the experienced ones (and who knows -- one, or two, of these DE's might just be a tad quicker or longer reach than Barnett / just might fully-disrupt more of the BIG plays vs some of those many, many finger-tip misses Barnett had -- it's all relative).
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Well that's correct, some of these fill-ins will be returning with experience they wouldn't have if we hadn't had so many injuries. However you have to realize that some of those guys would have never seen the field at UT, except maybe in trash time, without those massive amounts of injuries. That's not quality depth, and that experience will do little during next years games if they never see the field again. With players like Barnett, Kamara, Vereen, we just don't have replacements for them, that are anywhere close to their level of talent; those are huge holes that we just don't have "next man up" depth to fill.

UT-Rex said:
The competition looks to be stronger this season, yet Shoop should be more able. Yes,
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What did you watch in 2016 that makes you think Shoop should be more able? From what I saw, we struggled defensively against every opponent for the majority of every game, if not all of it, regardless of our opponents offensive talent. App State, Ohio, Georgia, or Vandy, it didn't seem to matter when it came to stopping the run, and that was even when we were healthy. He may get it done, but nothing on the field in 2016 makes me think that he will, and with the loss of Barnett and Vereen, the task will only be harder.

UT-Rex said:
the probability we perform better is good-strong, imo. I am very positive at this moment for a good summer and strong Fall.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree. Expecting CBJ to do more in 2017, with less than he had in 2015 and 2016 when the best he could muster in the SEC is 5-3 and 4-4, just isn't a probable outcome given what we know about next year's roster, coaching staff, and what we've seen in previous seasons under CBJ.
 
#142
#142
Im not exactly delighted that we are deep with inexperience. Every team in the country is deep with inexperience. You basically just said we will be good based on the fact our guys play football? So does every other team in the country. And to add on...Tennessee players arent exactly the not quitting type as evidenced by some last season.
 
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#143
#143
can we better than we were last year? tough one. i do think had we not had the volume of injuries on defense, we could have probalby not given up 2000 rushing yards down the stretch and found a way to beat USCe and Vandy.

so if we stay healthy, especially on defense, that'd be a plus. but you counter that, on offense we're going to have a brand new OC, new qb coach, brand new qb, we lose our best WR, best RB....

tough to say we'll be better on the whole. still some fairly big ?'s to get answered.

we get more right answers than wrong ones, sure....we don't, then it could be a down year.
 
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#144
#144
jakez4ut said:
can we better than we were last year? tough one. i do think had we not had the volume of injuries on defense, we could have probalby not given up 2000 rushing yards down the stretch and found a way to beat USCe and Vandy.

so if we stay healthy, especially on defense, that'd be a plus. but you counter that, on offense we're going to have a brand new OC, new qb coach, brand new qb, we lose our best WR, best RB....

tough to say we'll be better on the whole. still some fairly big ?'s to get answered.

we get more right answers than wrong ones, sure....we don't, then it could be a down year.
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Im not as worried about our QB situation. Dobbs was thrown in to the fire his freshman year making him learn while playing. All 3 of next years possible QBs have way more experience and learning in the system.

Injuries would be the only thing that worries me for next year. Excited to see who steps up on offense and defense leading in to the season.
 
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#145
#145
IluvdoubleD's said:
That's actually a good observation I'll take to heart. How come we only saw a hand full of receivers and we had half the depth? Could it be because we were dinking around with cosmonaught that could run at QB?
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Not exactly, our QB was a cosmonaught but our receivers were not. It galls me to no end that vols fans cannot see that the more complicated the system, the more time it takes players to consume the plays and act on instinct instead of react to what they see. Bama has been great for 2 reasons; first they get the best talent and second (and most important) all 11 players on the field work on instinct on every play. We will definitely see whether or not our coaching staff has "coached" up the Vols this year:machgun:
 
#146
#146
KINGSVOL said:
Not exactly, our QB was a cosmonaught but our receivers were not. It galls me to no end that vols fans cannot see that the more complicated the system, the more time it takes players to consume the plays and act on instinct instead of react to what they see. Bama has been great for 2 reasons; first they get the best talent and second (and most important) all 11 players on the field work on instinct on every play. We will definitely see whether or not our coaching staff has "coached" up the Vols this year:machgun:
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Summary: Forget last year, this year, this year is our year.:thud:
 
#147
#147
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Im not as worried about our QB situation. Dobbs was thrown in to the fire his freshman year making him learn while playing. All 3 of next years possible QBs have way more experience and learning in the system.

Injuries would be the only thing that worries me for next year. Excited to see who steps up on offense and defense leading in to the season.
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i see reason for optimism on our qb situation. that doesn't mean it's reality. we just won't know until we see it.

we still have a lot of shoes to fill. replacing two stud DEs, LB, CB, RB, WR, 1 OL, and QB. at least 4 new coaches/coaching positions.

i get why people are erring on the side of optimism.

but history shows that teams that have that much transition (except for Bama), generally don't come out of the gate on top.

7/8 wins would probably be a good year for this year's team. it won't make me all that happy, considering what could have been the past 2 years. but singularly, i don't see this team as "expected to win the East".

to me, this team feels a lot like the 2014 team, which is why, in year 5, that doesn't necessarily make me feel all that good, when you look at it comprehensively. we took steps forward in 14, 15, and even 16. this year feels like a step back.
 
#148
#148
i do think the O line has a chance to be really pretty good. if you have that, then it helps a young qb and a developing running game. you can build on that.

bottom line for me....lots of ?'s to answer.
 
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#149
#149
VOLinAL said:
Im not exactly delighted that we are deep with inexperience. Every team in the country is deep with inexperience. You basically just said we will be good based on the fact our guys play football? So does every other team in the country. And to add on...Tennessee players arent exactly the not quitting type as evidenced by some last season.
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I am not sure I understand your thought. The double negative in the last sentence seems to say you think we had some players who quit on the team last year. I know Hurd did, but which others are you calling out?
 
#150
#150
Behr said:
Just because you belive something, doesn't mean it's true. Please list logical reasons, backed by factual evidence that proves without doubt, that we can beat Alabama and Georgia Tech, win the SEC and play in the National Championship Game and why you seem think the Gray uniforms will make the difference.
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Depth
Our quarterback will be good
Our offensive line will be better
Defense will be better
Kelly

*all this counts for everyone except bama!
 
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