Border Wall Thread (Merged)

#254
#254
hog88 said:
We already have e-verify (it sucks right now) but get this working better, making it easy for employers to verify status. Then it will enforce itself after the first big boss goes to jail.
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Doesn't account for under the table cash payouts. It's more common than putting Juan Johnson on an everified payroll.
 
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#255
#255
MG1968 said:
Tariffs never work.
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There are tariffs on every product coming into the USA right now. We pay tariffs on every product we purchase except special agreements like NAFTA. Mexico has tariffs on every incoming product except for NAFTA. NAFTA was designed for the US to benefit by send the raw materials to Mexico and receiving finished products. Mexico decided it was better for them to reduce the tariffs on those same raw materials and purchase them from China. Now the USA loses the entire industry and those raw material suppliers go out of business.

No one is trading without tariffs.
 
#256
#256
IPleadInsanity said:
There are tariffs on every product coming into the USA right now. We pay tariffs on every product we purchase except special agreements like NAFTA. Mexico has tariffs on every incoming product except for NAFTA. NAFTA was designed for the US to benefit by send the raw materials to Mexico and receiving finished products. Mexico decided it was better for them to reduce the tariffs on those same raw materials and purchase them from China. Now the USA loses the entire industry and those raw material suppliers go out of business.

No one is trading without tariffs.
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This is not a justification. It's like saying "everyone is in debt" and "everyone is corrupt".
 
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#259
#259
16299317_10154269075767129_3481128651625679409_n.jpg
 
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#260
#260
n_huffhines said:
Either Trump is an idiot or thinks we all are...a tariff on Mexican imports is not "Mexico paying for the wall". Americans would be paying those taxes Pretty sad if he doesn't understand this.

https://mises.org/blog/tariff-mexico-will-ensure-americans-pay-border-wall
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I am neutral on the wall but I think he is much smarter than you give him credit. Both he and Mexico know that the tariff would destroy Mexico as Americans would just obtain the same goods elsewhere.

It's called posturing. I can see how it is confusing for some because Americans are not used to seeing their leaders bargain from its true position of power.
 
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#261
#261
n_huffhines said:
This is not a justification. It's like saying "everyone is in debt" and "everyone is corrupt".
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That was in reference to a statement "tariffs don't work". It sounds like people think goods are shipping tariff free. Of course tariffs work. Without them there would be chaos. The tariff Trump proposed is just another tariff same as goods shipped from Mexico that are not covered by NAFTA.

The tariff proposed by Trump has shaken up Mexico. This would be a monumental problem for them. No one in the USA will purchase those goods including the tariff as it would be cheaper to import. Shoe would be on the other foot instantly. (They currently circumvent the NAFTA process by lowering their tariff from China and purchasing raw materials for goods to be shipped back to USA duty free).
 
#262
#262
Septic said:
I wonder how much it would cost to create a database of legit workers and jail employers who hire illegals? Cut the head off the snake so to speak...

If there was a hint I'd be thrown in the clink for hiring an illegal, I'd trace their lineage back to Australopithecus before bringing them on.
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I know several candidates talked about making E-Verify mandatory during the primary season. But it would simply be an issue of enforcement and an easy "around" by not keeping workers on the payroll and paying out in cash.
 
#264
#264
vols4sure said:
I am neutral on the wall but I think he is much smarter than you give him credit. Both he and Mexico know that the tariff would destroy Mexico as Americans would just obtain the same goods elsewhere.
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So if we aren't importing stuff from Mexico, then how do we collect the tariff tax to pay for the wall?

We will "obtain the same goods elsewhere" is just code for "we will pay more for the same goods", no matter where we get it from. 20%...10%...whatever we have to pay extra is going to stifle many industries and make American consumers poorer....and we'll still be paying for the wall!

He's not smart. Nobody should think this is smart. It defies all reason if you know the basics about how economies work.
 
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#265
#265
IPleadInsanity said:
This is not accurate as Americans will not purchase those Mexican products increased by 20%. Imports from Bangladesh would increase though!
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So how does that solve anything? Your hypothetical result means:

- no tariff tax to pay for wall
- we're still importing
- we're now paying more

It makes many things worse without making anything better.
 
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#267
#267
IPleadInsanity said:
That was in reference to a statement "tariffs don't work". It sounds like people think goods are shipping tariff free. Of course tariffs work. Without them there would be chaos. The tariff Trump proposed is just another tariff same as goods shipped from Mexico that are not covered by NAFTA.

The tariff proposed by Trump has shaken up Mexico. This would be a monumental problem for them. No one in the USA will purchase those goods including the tariff as it would be cheaper to import. Shoe would be on the other foot instantly. (They currently circumvent the NAFTA process by lowering their tariff from China and purchasing raw materials for goods to be shipped back to USA duty free).
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The existence of tariffs is not a valid argument that tariffs work.

What does "tariffs work" even mean? Yeah they can create more government revenue to a certain point...but that depends on how they are implemented. Do they make things better for Americans? In that sense, they don't work at all.
 
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#268
#268
MOOOOONEY said:
PED my friend. If the Mexican prices go up the demand for their products go down. If the demand of their products go down then they will negotiate a deal.
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If the tariff drives down demand for imports, then how in the **** is the tariff tax going to pay for the wall? Remember, this is a proposed solution for paying for the wall...

You guys just say the first possible explanation that comes to mind. Maybe that's why you identify with Trump?
 
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#269
#269
n_huffhines said:
If the tariff drives down demand for imports, then how in the **** is the tariff tax going to pay for the wall? Remember, this is a proposed solution for paying for the wall...

You guys just say the first possible explanation that comes to mind. Maybe that's why you identify with Trump?
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Have you ever negotiated anything? There is never going to be a 20% tariff unless Mexico wants to tank their economy. They will come to the table with Trump and make concessions regarding the wall / border enforcement.
 
#270
#270
vols4sure said:
Have you ever negotiated anything? There is never going to be a 20% tariff unless Mexico wants to tank their economy. They will come to the table with Trump and make concessions regarding the wall / border enforcement.
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Nah, throwing your BATNA on the table the first day of negotiating is a proven method....................
 
#271
#271
vols4sure said:
Have you ever negotiated anything? There is never going to be a 20% tariff unless we both want to tank their economy. They will come to the table with Trump and make concessions regarding the wall / border enforcement.
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FYP

What if Mexico calls our bluff? I believe Trump said something like if you aren't ready to pay for the wall, don't even show up to the meeting. Mexico's president cancelled.

We'd be better off lowering tariffs, regardless of what Mexico does, but Trump wants to play chicken by causing direct harm to Americans for an unspecified amount of time. Trump will be fine. He's got money. How is Joe the Plumber going to do when his groceries cost 25% more?
 
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#272
#272
n_huffhines said:
If the tariff drives down demand for imports, then how in the **** is the tariff tax going to pay for the wall? Remember, this is a proposed solution for paying for the wall...

You guys just say the first possible explanation that comes to mind. Maybe that's why you identify with Trump?
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You negotiate from a position of strength. 80% of Mexico's exports go to the U.S. The U.S. gets 13% of our imports from Mexico. The year before NAFTA was implemented, the trade deficit was negligible. Now it is more than negligible. Which country did NAFTA help the most? Which country is likely to benefit most from a new trade policy? Do you think Mexico will give the U.S. the middle finger?
 
#273
#273
Pacer92 said:
Do you want a borderless society? This country has enough problems without being an incubator for all things foreign and underprivaleged. We are losing our culture, amongst other things, to be a nursery to everyone. We can't remain a great country this way...
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Delusional
 
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#274
#274
southgatevol said:
You negotiate from a position of strength. 80% of Mexico's exports go to the U.S. The U.S. gets 13% of our imports from Mexico. The year before NAFTA was implemented, the trade deficit was negligible. Now it is more than negligible. Which country did NAFTA help the most? Which country is likely to benefit most from a new trade policy? Do you think Mexico will give the U.S. the middle finger?
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A trade deficit is not necessarily a bad thing. In our case, it means we are rich and consume more than the rest of the world does.

Mexico's GDP is $1.26 trillion, so I'm not sure the tariffs are enough to prevent them from following through with a trade war.
 
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#275
#275
n_huffhines said:
A trade deficit is not necessarily a bad thing. In our case, it means we are rich and consume more than the rest of the world does.
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I agree with the trade deficit not being a bad thing. But if you look at the situation as a high stakes card game, who has the winning hand? Mexico needs the U.S. more than the U.S. needs Mexico. Do you disagree?
 
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