Mike Mayock likes Alvin Kamara.....

[volnbama_]

That's absolutely not true. Antonio Brown was not highly recruited at all. He wasn't even rated by rivals. Just read this article talking about how nobody really saw much in Brown coming out of high school. Recruiting rewind: How 5 Steelers were rated coming out of high school - Pittsburgh Steelers Blog- ESPN



FTR Bell was a 2 star recruit. So if Bell was pursued like a 5 star compared to Brown, that should let you know how nobody really saw much in Antonio Brown coming out of high school.

FYI I could not find anything online about FSU ever being interested in Brown.

You do know that recruiting rankings didn't rate kids if they had grade concerns?

 

[volnbama_]

Didn't Brown basically go unrecruited because he all but flunked out of high school?

Yes

 

[Fingers]

Antonio Brown was going to FSU before his grades prevented him from getting in. He was an all state player from Miami and Butch thought JJ Watt was a better TE than DE.

Brown wasn't highly rated out of high school. He applied to FSU but I don't believe he had a scholarship offer. Rivals doesn't list one. Butch recruited him at West Virginia.

Watt played TE in high school and only played one season at CM. He gained quite a bit of weight that year. He probably wouldn't have stayed at TE. They wanted to move him to OLine but he walked on at Wisconsin instead.

 

[Fingers]

I'm trying to find an article on him, but I have a recollection of reading somewhere that Brown's academics were a disaster, and he only made it thru high school because of a school system that had insanely low standards for athletics eligibility. He didn't come close to passing the NCAA clearinghouse.

Even coming out of prep school, he got turned down by just about everyone. NC Tech Prep is a diploma mill in an office park, and many players don't even attend class, though I have no idea if Brown did or didn't. Brown had contact with Jones while he was still at WVU, and when Butch moved to a school with lower standards (and it is really saying something to have lower standards than WVU) he was able to latch on. And even that only occurred after he'd been kicked out of FIU for a disciplinary problem.

While it is certainly true that Brown has way outperformed his draft position, it's also true that the guy came into the league with a whole lot of red flags in his recent past. I imagine that had to affect many GMs' decisions.

The thing that sticks out to me about Brown is how he was able to turn things around after all he'd been through.

 

[bamawriter]

The thing that sticks out to me about Brown is how he was able to turn things around after all he'd been through.

That's true. And I don't mean any of this as a knock on Brown. The fact that he got himself on the right path and made the most of his opportunities is really admirable.

But it's totally insincere to suggest that every team just "missed" on him. The guy's life had been one screw up after another. The Steelers wound up getting a great return on their investment, but it's not like they were willing to risk a lot to do so.

 

[Jmyers1033]

I don't know about flunking out of high school but the criticism of him has usually been he's not very big or very fast.

He did go in the 6th round for a reason even after a prolific career at Central Michigan.

He's barely 5'10" and runs the 40 in 4.6 seconds. Not really a good combination for getting major college or pro attention.

Antonio Brown like Josh Norman (another guy who was barely recruited out of high school and who went in the 6th round of the draft because he lacked ideal measureables) is a guy who exceeded the expectations laid upon him by the so-called experts.

I don't know why it's so hard for you guys to admit these "scouts" and "recruiting analysts" don't always know everything. Everyone missed on Antonio Brown and Josh Norman. There is no explanation for it.

And let me guess...You knew both of them would be all pros

 

[IndianaVolunteer]

That's true. And I don't mean any of this as a knock on Brown. The fact that he got himself on the right path and made the most of his opportunities is really admirable.

But it's totally insincere to suggest that every team just "missed" on him. The guy's life had been one screw up after another. The Steelers wound up getting a great return on their investment, but it's not like they were willing to risk a lot to do so.

Not saying Sutton was All-SEC but if you don't think teams threw away from him, you're crazy, and obviously not a fan of UT, and obviously didn't watch any games besides UT vs Bama. Teams avoided Sutton on the regular 😂

 

[bamawriter]

Not saying Sutton was All-SEC but if you don't think teams threw away from him, you're crazy, and obviously not a fan of UT, and obviously didn't watch any games besides UT vs Bama. Teams avoided Sutton on the regular 😂

I think you'd honestly be surprised how often this wasn't true. Teams will always try to get their best receiver lined up on the opponent's weaker DB, and Sutton was never UT's weakest DB. But UT would often move Sutton around to cover the better receiver, and very few teams would shy away from going after him.

None of that is to say that Sutton isn't a good DB. I just don't think he's a true lockdown corner.

 

[IndianaVolunteer]

I think you'd honestly be surprised how often this wasn't true. Teams will always try to get their best receiver lined up on the opponent's weaker DB, and Sutton was never UT's weakest DB. But UT would often move Sutton around to cover the better receiver, and very few teams would shy away from going after him.

None of that is to say that Sutton isn't a good DB. I just don't think he's a true lockdown corner.

I don't think he's a true lock down either. But he was compared to ANY other CB we had which is why teams didn't throw to him. You have mosely, Foreman, Martin, who are all awful to choose from and teams sure did. Sutton hardly played this year anyway. Sutton will be drafted in the first 4-5 rounds. Earlier if he would have declared last year.

 

[bamawriter]

I don't think he's a true lock down either. But he was compared to ANY other CB we had which is why teams didn't throw to him. You have mosely, Foreman, Martin, who are all awful to choose from and teams sure did. Sutton hardly played this year anyway. Sutton will be drafted in the first 4-5 rounds. Earlier if he would have declared last year.

I think you're spot on. My point isn't to say that teams chose to pick on him. Why would they with the guys you listed on the field? My point is simply that teams weren't scared to go after him when the situation allowed for it. He's not some kind of matchup nightmare.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Are you seriously going to pretend that Ridley was the only one? Heck, Amari Cooper had more than 100 yards on plays with Sutton in single coverage.

Don't you think Amari Cooper is some all-time great? Didn't he also "burn" Vernon Hargraves and every other corner in the SEC? So why is Amari Cooper performing well against Sutton some trump card for you?

Your argument is that Cam Sutton is not very good at all and teams regularly attacked him. Citing the best WR arguably in the SEC in the last 7 years isn't really sufficient to make your point. The way you sounded earlier, you made it seem like every team Tennessee played against was going at Cam Sutton and having success.

Ah yes, pre-season prognostications. Let's just ignore the fact that Sutton didn't even make second team all-conference coming out of 2015, which would actually be based on performance rather than speculation.

Post season awards especially all-conference teams voted on after the season are based largely on team success and individual hype. Rarely do they coincide with on-field performance. If they did, Jalen Hurts wouldn't have been first team all-SEC QB or the SEC Offensive Player of the Year. Those were awarded to him because he plays for Bama. Not because he was the best QB or offensive player in the conference. His struggles against Washington and Clemson highlight that fact to the nth degree.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

And let me guess...You knew both of them would be all pros

Nope. I wasn't even following college football all that closely back then and even if I did, its highly unlikely that I would have known much about non-power 5 players like Antonio Brown and Josh Norman. But then again I'm not paid to know every college football player eligible for the draft.

I only highlighted them as examples that these scouts and NFL teams don't know everything. They regularly miss on even the best players in the NFL. Guys like Tom Brady, Antonio Brown, and Josh Norman were all drafted in the 6th round. They are arguably the best players at their respective positions. That is kind of ridiculous considering how much these teams allegedly invest in scouting.

 

[volnbama_]

Brown wasn't highly rated out of high school. He applied to FSU but I don't believe he had a scholarship offer. Rivals doesn't list one. Butch recruited him at West Virginia.

Watt played TE in high school and only played one season at CM. He gained quite a bit of weight that year. He probably wouldn't have stayed at TE. They wanted to move him to OLine but he walked on at Wisconsin instead.

Brown likely could have named his school without the numerous red flags. Butch was recruiting him to West Virginia, which has extremely low standards. Watt was projected to be a DE out of high school but Butch typically puts athletes on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[bamawriter]

Don't you think Amari Cooper is some all-time great? Didn't he also "burn" Vernon Hargraves and every other corner in the SEC? So why is Amari Cooper performing well against Sutton some trump card for you?

Ardarius Stewart jumped right over Sutton. Pharoh Cooper worked him. He had six tackles and 0 passes defended against a Vandy team that only recently learned that the forward pass was legal.

We aren't talking all-time legends here.

Your argument is that Cam Sutton is not very good at all and teams regularly attacked him. Citing the best WR arguably in the SEC in the last 7 years isn't really sufficient to make your point. The way you sounded earlier, you made it seem like every team Tennessee played against was going at Cam Sutton and having success.

Your reading comprehension is every bit as bad as your predictive abilities.

Post season awards especially all-conference teams voted on after the season are based largely on team success and individual hype. Rarely do they coincide with on-field performance.

Are you seriously going to rip on post-season awards for being about "hype" after you used a pre-season award to bolster your argument? If you aren't trolling, then you have no excuse for being this stupid

 

[BearCat204]

Your argument is that Cam Sutton is not very good at all and teams regularly attacked him.

You are either dumb as a board or just simple not reading. That is not what anyone is saying.....at all.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Ardarius Stewart jumped right over Sutton. Pharoh Cooper worked him. He had six tackles and 0 passes defended against a Vandy team that only recently learned that the forward pass was legal.

We aren't talking all-time legends here.

LOL @ citing games after he came back early from a serious ankle injury. The Cam Sutton who finished the season is not the same guy that started the season.

And I love the isolated examples from one or two guys catching a ball on him. Watch Cam Sutton play more than 1 game a year buddy. Or when he isn't coming back from a serious injury.

Cam Sutton has regularly shut down his side of the field. And if not for the injury this year he would have dominated.

 

[bamawriter]

And I love the isolated examples from one or two guys catching a ball on him.

I was convinced you were just trolling, but the more you go at it the more I'm convinced you are genuinely stupid.

When I name a couple of guys, and you ask for more, do I have to go back and relist the others I already named? Because that seems like a waste of everyone's time. But, if you are genuinely stupid, perhaps that's necessary.

 

[bamawriter]

There is a reason he was a first team All-SEC pick at CB going into the season.

Post season awards especially all-conference teams voted on after the season are based largely on team success and individual hype. Rarely do they coincide with on-field performance.

I just wanted to get this consolidated into one post so that the full-breadth of its idiocy could be appreciated.

 

[volnbama_]

I think Sutton regressed during his career. He looked like a future 10 year NFL players his first couple years but he started to get picked on quite a bit his junior season.

 

[walkenvol]

I just wanted to get this consolidated into one post so that the full-breadth of its idiocy could be appreciated.

D4H has repeatedly displayed by his trolling on VN and you for being a Bubba supporter, coming on a rival's forum to post, and then arguing with the rival's forum's biggest troll.

Get on down the road and kick rocks!

 

[KBVol]

The North prediction was more hopeful. I was basically just projecting my own views. Sorta like how I believe Cam Sutton is the best corner since Darrelle Revis.

This view that Alvin will go in the first round is actually based more on the fact that this opinion is now spreading. First Mayock, then Bucky Brooks, and now Daniel Jeremiah.

Expect the Alvin Kamara hype to only increase.

Wait a minute....you're using the same sources that you routinely trash when you disagree to now validate your opinion? You're unreal kid. Guarantee that if those same three sources are on record as saying Josh Dobbs won't be drafted or won't be a good NFL quarterback that you'll trash the hell out of them, while at the same time praising them here for their comments on Alvin. They're brilliant in one thread and blithering idiots in another.

 

[BearCat204]

Selfishly hoping Kamara is still there for the Eagles in the 2nd round. I do think he will end up being a top 3 back out of this draft behind Cook and LF.

 

[Dallasbowlin]

I like kamara too.

 

[KBVol]

I don't know about flunking out of high school but the criticism of him has usually been he's not very big or very fast.

He did go in the 6th round for a reason even after a prolific career at Central Michigan.

He's barely 5'10" and runs the 40 in 4.6 seconds. Not really a good combination for getting major college or pro attention.

Antonio Brown like Josh Norman (another guy who was barely recruited out of high school and who went in the 6th round of the draft because he lacked ideal measureables) is a guy who exceeded the expectations laid upon him by the so-called experts.

I don't know why it's so hard for you guys to admit these "scouts" and "recruiting analysts" don't always know everything. Everyone missed on Antonio Brown and Josh Norman. There is no explanation for it.

Brown is an elite athlete and in no way, shape, form or fashion is a 4.6 guy. Just stop. He physically embarrasses pretty much any DB that tries to cover him....nobody can cover him because of his quickness and then he runs away from everybody. Dude is incredible.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Brown is an elite athlete and in no way, shape, form or fashion is a 4.6 guy. Just stop. He physically embarrasses pretty much any DB that tries to cover him....nobody can cover him because of his quickness and then he runs away from everybody. Dude is incredible.

My bad. I thought I remembered reading somewhere he ran a 4.6 at the combine which led to him falling to the 6th round. Just looked it up and saw he actually ran 4.47. Have no idea why I thought it was 4.6.

Your right he plays as explosive as anybody at the WR position. I wasn't trying to imply that he was actually slow. I just thought this was another Jerry Rice scenario. A guy who plays fast but didn't test fast. Antonio Brown plays and tested fast so thank you for correcting me on this error. I really thought I remembered reading somewhere he ran 4.6 which caused him to fall.