Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXII

[BigZiti09]

And we know this how?

It's been discussed in the past. It was a complaint by many. It was used against us in recruiting. It's one of the reasons we've had trouble landing a qb in the 2017 and 2018 classes.

Debord was full time OC. Part time Mahoney babysitter. Part time qb coach. Sheridan was the full time QB coach.

 

[InVOLuntary]

You want to judge Butch's hires see how many/which ones are in demand. How many are getting raises to keep them from leaving? How many take a step down when they leave/get fired? How many don't etc jobs when they leave?

 

[BigZiti09]

You want to judge Butch's hires see how many/which ones are in demand. How many are getting raises to keep them from leaving? How many take a step down when they leave/get fired? How many don't etc jobs when they leave?

So we are supposed to judge Butch on the guys he fires?

What's your answer for Scott, Gillespie, Shoop and Warren?

 

[BruinVol]

It's been discussed in the past. It was a complaint by many. It was used against us in recruiting. It's one of the reasons we've had trouble landing a qb in the 2017 and 2018 classes.

Debord was full time OC. Part time Mahoney babysitter. Part time qb coach. Sheridan was the full time QB coach.

It's been discussed here in the past it must be true. That truly is the Volnation way. You left out that during the individual periods of practice that Debord went to check the PH levels at the aquatic center leaving the QBs to a GA.


On another note I won't be surprised at all if this 247 report that Canales is the hire is another example of them being fed bogus info.

 

[HankHill]

If you want to believe a nonpaid GA was the main QB coach over the named OC/QB coach I can't help you.

Debord almost worked exclusively with OL. There were times his year when some toes were being stepped on between Mahoney and Debord.

Nick was 100% the "QB Coach"

 

[drvenner]

Please don't act like he is a great passer

Dobbs had two bad games all year. One was against Bama with no OL in front of him. The South Carolina game was his worst and he owned it. He was mediocre against ASU and very average against Ohio but he was handcuffed in those games. In the other nine games, he was fantastic. So, for you to act like he did not have a good year throwing the ball, is simply that - an act. He did miss some throws he should have made, but what QB makes every throw? None.

 

[bignewt]

Ok so I have gathered from the night shift that Canales' imminent hiring is going to sink CBJ because he is not sexy enough and the QB coach will determine our fate.

Cool. Cool.

Now the day shift must pick up the pieces of your shattered dreams and offer perspective that will let a little sunshine back into your world.

 

[WallyBalls]

Hubbs, Brice, etc have all talked about how Sheridan was the defacto QB coach. They said it in response to the weekly freakout over some belief Dobbs was twiddling his thumbs unsupervised, or various other gripes and grumbles.

Let's not act like that wasn't the case. It wasn't just "on VN".

 

[drvenner]

Matt Canada really wanted to coach here. Now he's getting paid 1.5 million per year at LSU. We could've had him for a bargain. And in a year where Butch still had enough equity with fans to spend a half season or so going through the growing pains of a new offense.


That's one thing that kills me with Butch and his offensive staff hires. He can usually identify a safe B option. But he doesn't seem to have the instinct to pull the trigger on A or A+ guys (seemingly out of fear of taking a few steps back before moving forward or simply not wanting to adjust his scheme).

See:

Mahoney and Pittman (though Mahoney is probably worse than a B)
Azzani and Tee
Debord and Canada

Tee was never coming here. I don't know what the realistic chances were of keeping Pittman, either. Our offense was great this year, so it is hard to argue that Canada would have been better, though he was also fantastic at Pitt.

 

[snowvols]

The rest of the country is not even paying attention to our AD hire fiasco. We need to get over ourselves a little bit.

Yep, Atlanta radio briefly mentioned the job when they reported that Fulmer was a candidate. Nothing about how long it is taking or any other candidates though. 99.99% of people down here have no idea who the Tennessee AD is or that Tennessee is getting a new one. There is no national embarrassment because no one nationally knows or cares about it.

 

[bignewt]

Tee was never coming here. I don't know what the realistic chances were of keeping Pittman, either. Our offense was great this year, so it is hard to argue that Canada would have been better, though he was also fantastic at Pitt.

I don't get all the moaning about a sexy hire on offense. Our offense IS NOT THE PROBLEM. Boo hoo Butch won't step out of the box on offense and hire blah blah. He doesn't need to its NOT BROKEN.

Good grief.

 

[InVOLuntary]

So we are supposed to judge Butch on the guys he fires?

What's your answer for Scott, Gillespie, Shoop and Warren?

I gave you no answers, I just think it's a good judge of his hires.

Here's a list, from memory, you come to your own conclusion:

Elder
Jancek
Martinez
Debord
Sheridan
Bajakian

All the current staff members.

Elder went for a better opportunity
Jancek fired, downward position
Martinez, fired no job yet
Debord, left on his own, downward position
Sheridan, left presumably on his own for full time coaching position
Bajakian, left presumably on his own for NFL, lateral type move IMO.

If you look at current staff:

Shoop has been in high demand in past
Gillespie, rumored to have been targeted by several programs
Scott rumored to have been targeted for head coaching positions
Mahoney rumored to being forced out, no one apparently wants him
Azzani rumored to have been on thin ice, can't find another job.
Thigpen, who knows?
Strip, rumored to be retiring, not heavily sought after but it could be because of his age
Warren, younger coach, seems to be well respected.

 

[BigZiti09]

I gave you no answers, I just think it's a good judge of his hires.

Here's a list, from memory, you come to your own conclusion:

Elder
Jancek
Martinez
Debord
Sheridan
Bajakian

All the current staff members.

Elder went for a better opportunity
Jancek fired, downward position
Martinez, fired no job yet
Debord, left on his own, downward position
Sheridan, left presumably on his own for full time coaching position
Bajakian, left presumably on his own for NFL, lateral type move IMO.

If you look at current staff:

Shoop has been in high demand in past
Gillespie, rumored to have been targeted by several programs
Scott rumored to have been targeted for head coaching positions
Mahoney rumored to being forced out, no one apparently wants him
Azzani rumored to have been on thin ice, can't find another job.
Thigpen, who knows?
Strip, rumored to be retiring, not heavily sought after but it could be because of his age
Warren, younger coach, seems to be well respected.

Looks like our staff is getting better to me. Could be too little too late though.

 

[BruinVol]

I don't get all the moaning about a sexy hire on offense. Our offense IS NOT THE PROBLEM. Boo hoo Butch won't step out of the box on offense and hire blah blah. He doesn't need to its NOT BROKEN.

Good grief.

Offense wasn't I agree but replacing the guy running it is important.

 

[BigZiti09]

I don't get all the moaning about a sexy hire on offense. Our offense IS NOT THE PROBLEM. Boo hoo Butch won't step out of the box on offense and hire blah blah. He doesn't need to its NOT BROKEN.

Good grief.

Truf

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Debord almost worked exclusively with OL. There were times his year when some toes were being stepped on between Mahoney and Debord.

Nick was 100% the "QB Coach"

It's true.

Dobbs and I exchanged quite a few emails. I felt we really turned the corner when I told him, "I want you to take that there ball, and throw it down yonder when Malone runs real fast like."

Other quality coaching moments:

"When fellas on the other team are running after ya, you just take off towards that there endzone, and quick!"

"If you need to score points in a hurry, throw that there football a long ways and tell Jennings to climb up they backsides and pull that thing on in."

"If you're close to the endzone, but can't quite get it in... just lay it on the ground, and somebody'll get to it eventually."

 

[MockingVol]

I'd have liked to have taken the approach of actually interviewing OC/QB coaches instead of having a sham search with the outcome predertimed.

Go ahead and interview Scott and Canales, but round out the search better like the following:

Some top level interviews like Yurcich from OSU or Cumbie at TCU

Some P5 QB coach who seems in line for a Co-OC or OC position: Maybe Streeter at Clemson

An OC at the FCS level who has had great offenses for 2-3 years and might be open to coaching QBs at UT (Durden might fit here)

An NFL guy like Weinke or O'Connel

Canales




Bring in a diverse group of guys and have a serious sit down and Xs and Os session with them. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. Best case scenario is it turns out that you and a top flight guy could work really well together. Worst case scenario is you get your guy in Canales.



The fact he wouldn't interview a wider pool makes me think maybe Butch's pride couldn't handle being told no or that he's unwilling to consider that his scheme can be improved. In this case, bringing in a better group of guys is like going and talking to the hot girl at the bar who is probably out of your league: the worst thing that can happen is you're told no. And you still might come away from the situattion with a slightly different way of looking at things and grow from the experience.

You know this how? How high up in our Athletic Department are you that you could hear first hand from Butch and other coaches that this search was predetermined?

You are just creating a narrative that fits with your current, distraught, emotions. Canales was not my first choice either, but when has Butch made a bad hire since his original staff?

 

[InVOLuntary]

Looks like our staff is getting better to me. Could be too little too late though.

I think it has the potential to be better on defense. On offense I think it's about the same. Depends not what he does with Mahoney. I suspect it will be another Meh type hire.

 

[bignewt]

Offense wasn't I agree but replacing the guy running it is important.

Maybe what is important is making the transition as seamless as possible.

 

[jave36]

Lol a Bielema moving to 3-4. No way they get the personnel for that, and I think his new DC is a 4-3 guy?

 

[volinbama256]

I don't get all the moaning about a sexy hire on offense. Our offense IS NOT THE PROBLEM. Boo hoo Butch won't step out of the box on offense and hire blah blah. He doesn't need to its NOT BROKEN.

Good grief.

I agree offense is not the problem for now, but people aren't seeing the big picture of hiring another safe, older, mid level guy no one knows... RECRUITING. It is taking a nosedive and the only way it will recover is to add something new to the program that will get high profile kids interested in coming here... no one is buying what Butch is selling anymore, so someone else has to step in and create some excitement or buzz... show that UT is trying to upgrade and go to the next level, not being perceived as happy where they are and hiring safe bets and OCs will little to no experience calling high pressure SEC games... I think it is another example of Butch wanting control and protecting his ego... He's had chances to upgrade and is only taking safe, vanilla bets. JMO
Guess we will see next season. For now I know this will not help in the final weeks of recruiting.

 

[jave36]

Debord almost worked exclusively with OL. There were times his year when some toes were being stepped on between Mahoney and Debord.

Nick was 100% the "QB Coach"

I had read that 2 and 3 years ago he was, but once his 2 years of being a GA was up and he moved to QC this past year he wasn't allowed to provide on field coaching to the QBs by NCAA rules.

 

[BruinVol]

Maybe what is important is making the transition as seamless as possible.

I can agree with that

 

[BruinVol]

I had read that 2 and 3 years ago he was, but once his 2 years of being a GA was up and he moved to QC this past year he wasn't allowed to provide on field coaching to the QBs by NCAA rules.

So Sheridan wasn't a GA last year?

 

[BigZiti09]

So Sheridan wasn't a GA last year?

No. His GA time was up. That is why most thought he would be promoted full time to QB coach last year when Elder left.